No Chlorine / Phosphates

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E

ewilliams

0
Jul 31, 2009
21
New Jersey
Pool Size
32000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
I have a gunite pool approx. 35,000 (Nature 2 Chlorinator)gallons and I can not seem to keep a chlorine reading. I have been two two different pool stores with different advice, One had me put 4 five gallon conatiners of chlorine in the pool along with some phosphate remover. I do have a high phosphate reading. We'll that didn't work (I'am still adding the phophate remover at small doses because it increased the pressure on filter). A few days later I had a high chlorine reading but a few days after that I have no chlorine. Now this pool store has told me that I need to continue adding the phospahte remover and do not add any chlorine or shock to the pool over the next few days. They did advise thatif I wanted to go swimming to either add insta shock or approx. 2 tablets to the skimmer half 1/2 hour before swimming. They also advised that my wife who is 9 mos. pregnant and my 2 1/2 year old should not go in the pool untill there is a chlorine reading. What do I do? HELP !!!!!

Here are my current readings

Free Chlorine 0
Total Chlorine 0
PH 7.7
Toatl Alk. 140
CYA 45
Total Dissolved Liquids 500
Total hardness 230
Iron / Copper o
Nitrate 5
Phosphates 1500
 
First, welcome to the forum. Glad you are here.

You have correctly identified your problem....lack of chlorine. What you are missing is that chlorine is a consumable item that is consumed partially by sunlight and very, very rapidly if you have any algae, even invisible, in your pool.

Tell us how your water looks (clear, cloudy, green, etc.) and we'll get started on the proper way to maintain chlorine in your pool. :lol:
 
Hi ewilliams,

Forget about phospates, they are very rarely an issue. Just pool store talk to scare/confuse folks and sell more more chems.

As Dave said, you do not have enough chlorine in your pool. With zero FC, your pool is not safe for ANYONE to swim! :shock:

Because your FC dropped to zero, you need to shock your pool. You can learn how to do this in Pool School. Link at top of each page.

The best investment we made in our pool is a good test kit. The TF100 sold by duraleigh at http://www.tftestkits.net is the best bang for the $$. It will put YOU in control of your pool.

We will teach you how to make your pool safe, not only for your wife and child, but for everyone else, too :-D

Your pool needs chlorine. Period. And we mean bleach (plain, unscented 6% like Clorox regular)from the grocery store or liquid chlorine from the pool store.

I know this seems so simple it may seem profound. But, it works :-D

Your Pool's New Best Friends:
1. TFP
2. Pool School
3. Jason's Pool Calculator (link in my sig, on home page & in Pool School)
4. Liquid chlorine or Bleach
5. A recommended test kit! (link in my sig & on Home Page)

Welcome to the forum :wave:
 
My pool water is super clear and prior to this we had been putting atleast 4-5 bags of shock in the pool as well as the 4 five gallon containers of the liquid chlorine.. Additionally, when we added the phosphate remover there was an accumulation of what they said were phosphates on the bottom of the pool. Is it safe to add the insta shock and then swim a half hour later like they advised. We did it today and tested the water with an old kit and there was a reading that indicated the chlorine level was ok.
 
When you say insta shock do you mean non chorine shock? If so it will test as combined chlorine or total chlorine. This is just an interference, you still do not have chlorine in the pool. You want to start shocking with unstabilized chlorine (liquid chlorine or bleach, or cal hypo) and bring your FC up to about 20 ppm. Then you want to run your FC at about 4 ppm for a CYA of 45 ppm. Have you been keeping the FC at the .5 ppm level recommended by Zodiac or higher? If you have been following Zodiac's recommendations for the Nature 2 then I am not surprised you cannot hold chlorine. You have a nascent algae bloom. You do not need the phosphate removers, you just need to run your FC higher than you have been since a .5 -1 ppm residual is NOT enough, particularly iwth 45 ppm CYA even with the coppper and silver in your pool from the Nature 2. If you read the box of a new Nature 2 cartidge you will find that it is putting silver nitrate and copper sulfate in your water! :shock: Get rid of it.
You might want to read this:
alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.html

Your test results were done with test strips and are not to be trusted (total hardness is the giveaway; strips cannot test calcium hardness, only total hardness.
There is no such thing as a test for total dissolved liquids, I believe you mean total desolved solids. It is a bogus test that you do not need to worry about, as is the phosphate test.

The fact that there are nitrates in your pool indicate that you most likely DO have a nascent algae bloom. Bad news is there is no way to remove nitrates and even if you get the phosphates to 0 ppm the nitrates are going to be algae food so don't waste any more money on phosphate removers (it's really a scam to make money for the pool store anyway--If you are wondering how I know this I have worked in pool stores).

First thing you need to do is get a good set of test results that were NOT done with strips. They are NOT reliable. Invest in a good test kit, it will do you a LOT more good than all the phosphate remover in the world. We have some recommendation on test kits in pool school. Click on the link in the upper right corner of the screen.
 
The insta shock that I'm refering to is Sodium dichloro s Triazinetrone and the previous test results were from a pool store are not from test strips. The strips I used after I added the insta shock to see if there was any chlorine reading. The lady at the store said to add the insta shock a half hour before swimming so that I could use the pool. Ok so know I'm just really confused and just want to know what I have to do to get an acceptable chlorine reading so that I can swim safely with my family. I'm not realluy sure what the chlorine readings have been in the past because we have always taken the water to have it tested and it has been ok. Also the Nature 2 Chlorinator is turned up to the highest setting. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but we didn't start having problems untill after we had to drain the pool about 2-3 feet down to replace the polaris connection that was broken. I JUST WANT TO SWIM
 
I hear you. sadly that was dichlor which added cyanuric acid which you don't need.
here is the straight and narrow: if you want to take care of your pool in the best way possible for you and your family, you need to ditch the nature2 system and follow what pool-school/ tells you. if you don't understand, there are plenty of people here to answer your specific questions. the crux of the matter is without a decent test kit (drop based) you basically aren't going to be able to follow the advice here. you can get one of the ones recommended to you already, or at least the 6 way kit from walmart (not all walmarts have them, and the kit from http://www.tftestkits.net is a much better value). with a good test kit you will be able to take control of and understand your water like you never have before, and you will have clear water with no algae guaranteed. but it takes a bit of work, especially when you're starting behind the 8-ball. this is the absolute correct way to care for your pool in my opinion, as it uses the least amount of chemicals in the proper way that the chemicals are meant to be used.
if you don't want to spend some time on your pool and just want a magic bullet (believe me, we all do) then you can keep going to the pool store, but I don't think you'll be happy. read the chemistry section of pool-school/ and get a good test kit. you will gain a lot of knowledge and be in control of your water and not have to worry about these problems again if you stay on top of it a few minutes a day or every other day (once you clear up your current problem).
 
How did the pool store test for nitrates and phosphates? Did they use liquid and powdered reagents in a tube of pool water? Did they read the results in a machine for the other tests or did they add drops until there was a color change?
I have a very good idea as to why you are not able to hold chlorine but we really need some dependable test results and I just don't trust yours for a few reasons.
IF there is an aquarium or pet store near you that does water testing for aquariums bring in a sample and have them test it for ammonia. There should be none but often when there are nitrates in the water there is also ammonia.
Ammonia can create a huge chlorine demand.

Finally, do you have the mineral cartridge in your Nature 2 unit or are you only using the chlorine feeder section of it? I assume your Nature 2 unit is one of the G+ series (combo trichlor feeder and 'mineral' system).
 
The pool store used a tube like you indicated and also used a machine for the other readings. Additionally, I do have the cartridge in the Nature 2. I will try and get the water tested at a pet store today. Also I'm going to have the water tested at the pool store again to check the phosphates since I have alreay been putting the remover in. I also want to see how they are testing it. What could be the cause of having ammonia in the pool water? Once this situation is fixed (and I hope it is soon) I plan on purchasing a test kit and staying more in touch with my water then relying on the pool store. I JUST WANT CHLORINE ) How do I fix the problem so that I can get chlorine to stay in the pool and begin maintenance on the levels as provided by Pool School?
 
you put lots of it in until it works. ammonia takes a whole lot of chlorine so find out if you have any. you also need a new CYA reading after all that dichlor. make sure they test for cya and don't simply use your old number on a new paper. once you find out those two things, you can start the process. pool-school/ has all the info and plenty of people are here for specific questions. you have a big pool so be prepared for a lot of bleach/chlorine, and some possible draining if your cya got too high from the dichlor. chances are liquid chlorine is a better deal for you than bleach, so figure out which source is cheapest and start getting a lot of it. don't by any more phosphate remover.
 

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Ok I have read parts of Pool School and ow To Shock and I may be slow or something but now my head hurts. First of all I know my FC (Free Chlorine) is zero because I cant hold chlorine. Secondly how do I know how much liquid chlorine to add or even start with in order to bring it up to shock level (what is shock level?) I'm thinking that I may rent a backhoe and fill this thing in (LOL)?
 
Ok...My wife got the water tested again today and to my dismay has brought some more chemicals home that the pool store sold her so that we could swim. Apparently they think thta we should put approx. 12-16oz of Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione in the pool approx half hour before we want to swim (which is every day). they also sold her some Potassium Monopersulfate to put in the pool weekly. From what she says there are still phosphates and nitrates in the pool (2500 now up from 1500 dur to 2 days of rain) and they dont think that the chlorine issue will be or can be resolved. Apparently they say others are having the same problem. I personally think its moe beneficail for them if i have to keep buying these chemicals every week ($$$$. Afetr hearing that I went and had another water test done at another pool store ( just for a peace of mind). Same results but they suggested trying to add 6 bags (2 @ a time) of shock to the pool premixed in water. the stated thatthey may fix my problem. Apparently someone has the same issue (they also tried the liquid chlorine in a large amount) and this seemed to fix it. Oh yea I have not had a chance totest for ammonia yet, will try and do it later today.
OK SO HERE ARE MY NUMBERS AND WHAT SHOULD I DO? I READ pOOL SCHOOL AND STILL AM A LITTLE CONFUSED WITH HOW MUCH SHOCK TO USE AND HOW TO DO IT! (NEVER WAS GOOD WITH MATH AND CHARTS AND THINGS)

Free Chlor- 0
Total Chlor- .4
PH- 7.6
Total Alk- 150
CYA- 45
Total Hard- 230
Phosphates- 2500
 
if I am reading this correctly, you added dichlor after the initial pool store reading in this thread. I see you had your water tested at another store that also came up with a cya of 45, so I suppose we'll have to believe it for now, though I imagine it's higher.
anyhow, like I said earlier, you can follow this site, or follow the pool store. if you are following this site you need to stop buying anything the pool store tells you (I get that it was your wife, so pass the word along) and follow pool-school/ or ask specific questions that you don't understand.
you really need your own test kit or this is going to be a losing battle before you even start. I highly recommend the one from http://www.tftestkits.net as it is a much better value than any other kit and has all the tests you will need.
you are being "pool stored". Potassium Monopersulfate is an absolute waste of money and it will screw your chlorine tests up. it is useful for indoor pools and spas. you do not need more dichlor. you are actively shooting yourself in the foot by using that stuff when your cya is already 45. phosphates and nitrates are a scam 99% of the time. you can't remove nitrates from the pool (besides draining) so what's the point?
they don't think the chlorine issue can be resolved and lots of people are having this problem. that blows my mind. I often wonder how waterbear, jasonlion, etc can stand reading some of these posts without pulling their hair out. I feel for you guys up there who have to live with this kind of pool store garbage. when I first came here I wondered why everyone was so anti-pool store, and now I see.
ok rant over. what you need to do is this: get a good test kit. see above for the one virtually everyone here recommends. get your ammonia test done. stock up on chlorine/bleach whatever is the best deal. when your test kit comes in a couple days, test the water and start following the how to shock article in pool school that JasonLion referred you to. come back and post your own test results when you get them.
 
ewilliams said:
Ok...My wife got the water tested again today and to my dismay has brought some more chemicals home that the pool store sold her so that we could swim. Apparently they think thta we should put approx. 12-16oz of Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione in the pool approx half hour before we want to swim (which is every day). they also sold her some Potassium Monopersulfate to put in the pool weekly. From what she says there are still phosphates and nitrates in the pool (2500 now up from 1500 dur to 2 days of rain) and they dont think that the chlorine issue will be or can be resolved. Apparently they say others are having the same problem. I personally think its moe beneficail for them if i have to keep buying these chemicals every week ($$$$. Afetr hearing that I went and had another water test done at another pool store ( just for a peace of mind). Same results but they suggested trying to add 6 bags (2 @ a time) of shock to the pool premixed in water. the stated thatthey may fix my problem. Apparently someone has the same issue (they also tried the liquid chlorine in a large amount) and this seemed to fix it. Oh yea I have not had a chance totest for ammonia yet, will try and do it later today.
OK SO HERE ARE MY NUMBERS AND WHAT SHOULD I DO? I READ pOOL SCHOOL AND STILL AM A LITTLE CONFUSED WITH HOW MUCH SHOCK TO USE AND HOW TO DO IT! (NEVER WAS GOOD WITH MATH AND CHARTS AND THINGS)

Free Chlor- 0
Total Chlor- .4
PH- 7.6
Total Alk- 150
CYA- 45
Total Hard- 230
Phosphates- 2500
Click to expand...

8 large jugs of 6% bleach should raise your free chlorine to "shock level" of 20ppm, IF your CYA level is really 45 (this isn't clear.) If you look on the CYA chart, and find your CYA level, to the right is the FC levels you should maintain the far right column is your shock level.

So if your FC is now zero, 8 large jugs should bring you to shock level. But it probably won't hold there, and you'll have to keep adding more bleach until it holds. It's not a one time addition, does that make sense?

You need to learn how to use the Pool Calculator (instructions in Pool School) so that when you test, you can then calculate how much bleach you will add to keep holding the free chlorine at 20.

You need a good test kit so that you are subjected to the pool stores' bad advice on what they think you need to do. They aren't advising you well and if you do what they say you'll spend a lot of money and still have problems. I'd avoid them.

Order a good kit online and start shocking with bleach.
 
Will I be able to swim while doing this with the chlorine levels so high?
Also how long should I wait to check the chlorine levels after adding the bleach for an accurate reading?
 
ewilliams said:
Will I be able to swim while doing this with the chlorine levels so high?
Also how long should I wait to check the chlorine levels after adding the bleach for an accurate reading?
Click to expand...

If the water is clear, it is perfectly safe to swim up to shock level (others will even swim at higher levels - that is a decide for yourself kinda thing).

You can check the chlorine levels 30-60 minutes after adding bleach. Always run the filter 24/7 when shocking.
 
I'm just going to add,

Don't give up, do exactly what the good folks here recommend, test WAAAY more often than you think you need to and if the folks at the store ain't looking at you funny and talking under their breath when you buy bleach/chlorine you ain't buying enough.

Most of all: YOU WILL WIN!!!!
 
you need to return the stuff you bought at the pool store and buy liquid chlorine...lots of it and a good test kit...either a taylor k2006 or a TF100 available at tftestkits.net

The fastest way you will get to enjoy your pool is to accurately test your CYA level using one of the above noted kits and raise your FC to shock level according to the chlorine/CYA chart in pool school and hold it at shock level until you meet the criteria listed in the how to shock your pool instructions in pools school.

Shocking is something you do to your water...ie raise your FC to a high level to kill off organics and ammonia rapidly, it is not something you add to your water :goodjob:

The best way to shock is with liquid chlorine, since it adds the least amount of byproducts to your water. You do not need to worry about phospates.

Good luck
 

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