Cal Poly Pool Plaster Conclusions Shown to be Wrong

onBalance

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
In The Industry
Jul 25, 2011
1,472
Utah
Just thought I would post this if appropriate for this forum and if there is interest.
onBalance

Cal Poly Pool Plaster Conclusions Shown to be Wrong

Beginning in 2004, a series of plaster research studies were released by the National Plasterers Council (NPC), which they instigated and financially supported, and which were undertaken by the California Polytechnic State University in San Louis Obispo. In these studies, the researchers concluded that aggressive water conditions were the cause of “spot etching” and other plaster surface defects. The conclusions, and the quality of the research, have long been contested within the industry, yet the studies are still referred to by NPC plaster consultants as authoritative, at times to the detriment of innocent pool owners and service technicians.

In 2015, inorganic chemist Dr. Marcelle Dibrell peer reviewed Phase II of the Cal Poly research. She determined that the conclusions drawn by Cal Poly were not supported by their research, and that they did not prove what the researchers said they proved about plaster spotting.
This year Dr. Stan Pickens, also a prominent chemist and consultant in the swimming pool industry, independently reviewed Phase I of the Cal Poly research. Dr. Pickens was a member of the APSP Recreational Water Quality Committee for two decades, and served as its Chairman from 2014-2016.

Addressing the Phase I report, Dr. Pickens concluded: “While it is apparent that the study was a major undertaking, there are many problems with design study imbalance, flawed sample preparation, failure to control critical variables, and apparent lack of understanding of chemical principles relevant to water balance and sample preparation. These deficits call nearly all of the results and conclusions into question.”

Dr. Pickens also reviewed Dr. Dibrell’s critique of Phase II. In his review he states, “Dibrell’s conclusion that the experiment provided no reasonable explanation for the cause of ’spot etching’ is a reasonable one, since the reported etching did not correlate with the calculated LSI, and since general etching is not the same as spot alteration.” He adds “The occurrence of ‘spot etching’ in pools that – according to the data – were generally either balanced or scaling does call aggressive water into question as a cause. It appears that the Cal Poly researchers were predisposed to find aggressive water as the primary cause of spot etching, regardless of what the data showed.” He also includes the fact that Dr. Dibrell could have pointed out many additional deficiencies in the Cal Poly Phase II report, but notes that “perhaps [she] was too polite to point out the glaring deficiencies in the Cal Poly data.”

Dr. Pickens reviewed another interesting publication. Apparently at the same time Dr. Kachlakev of Cal Poly was telling the pool industry that they had proven the cause of “spot etching,” he and Dr. Pal (the project’s chemist) and Dr. Rothstein (the project’s petrographer) went to the International Cement Microscopy Association (ICMA) annual conference and presented their material to their petrography peers. But in that setting, they admitted that they did not nail down the cause of “spot alteration.”

The onBalance group is calling upon the NPC and Cal Poly to retract these invalidated studies in light of Dr. Dibrell’s previous review and these current critiques from Dr. Pickens.

In addition, onBalance is calling upon the NPC to acknowledge that the million-dollar Cal Poly study (and other NPC-associated studies) have not only failed to prove aggressive water is the cause for plaster spotting, but also failed to show that aggressive water chemistry causes gray mottling discoloration, calcium nodules, craze cracking, and spalling/flaking as has been suggested by plaster consultants. They have failed to do so because it simply isn’t true.

Dr. Pickens’ peer reviews may be viewed at Cal Poly NPIRC Pool Help

Note: This winter, onBalance is constructing their own plaster demonstration pools. They will be investigating parameters including aggressive vs. balanced water chemistry, various levels of calcium chloride set accelerant in pool plaster, and the effects of low-level chlorination vs. regular super-chlorination on organic vs. inorganic color pigments. Petrographic analysis of plaster samples will be performed.

An NPC plaster company will perform the plastering of the two small pools. IPSSA members will help monitor and record the water chemistry. We have received material, equipment, and other donations from associations, companies, and individuals. We welcome others to contribute to this pool plaster/water chemistry study.

The onBalance group assures the industry that this study and testing can be done without the failures found in the Cal Poly process.
For more information, go to Pool Help Information and Research for Pool Owners and Professionals
 
onBalance,
Just reread the article and cannot wait to see your conclusions. Is there any way you’d share more details about these demonstration pools and how you plan on testing this issue??
 
Two small plaster pools will be constructed with steel, gunite, tile, and with circulation and filter equipment. The plastering process will be video-taped to observe (afterwards) any cause/effect of differences in troweling methods. We will perform good workmanship practices. If any discoloration develops months later, a review of that video will be part of the effort to determine why.

One demo pool will be made with white pool plaster, with four different sections, each with a different amount of calcium chloride (CC) added, which is a hardening accelerator. One section will have 3% CC, another with 2%, another with 1%, and the last section with zero CC.

A divider will be placed down the middle of the pool separating the water. One half of the pool will have aggressive water (about -0.6 LSI) and the other with balanced water, about +0.2 LSI.

Observations will be made regarding aggressive water versus balanced water. Observations of color and other issues will be made regarding different content of calcium chloride added. We will inspect the pools for white spotting, gray mottling discoloration, calcium nodules, flaking/spalling, craze cracking, etc. Pictures will be taken monthly.

The second demo pool will also have four sections, two sections with "blue" pigment" and the other two with "black" color pigments. Each color will have one of "organic" pigment, and the other with "inorganic" color pigment.

Again, a divider will separate one half of that pool, one side with normal chlorination levels, and the other in "high chlorine" dosage, such as shocking or super-chlorination and both maintained with balanced water.

Each month afterwards, photos will be taken to observe color differences, etc., and see if chlorination differences affect the color pigments.

We will be using expensive pH meters and other testing equipment when performing water analysis tests. We will have outside industry members visit our facility to perform their own tests of each pool's water and compare with our tests.

Expensive petrographic analysis (forensics) of plaster samples from each pool section will be performed by a professional and independent cement lab at the end of the study (about 8 to 10 months).

Our test pool facility will be open to all pool industry members to observe the going process and project.
 
Can’t wait. If your team can afford, a series of WiFi connected digital cameras can be programmed to capture continuous imagery of the pools (even set to snap pictures at fixed time intervals). This data could then be accelerated in time to show how the plaster ages.

I look forward to reading the study. Will you be able to provide the research report as a public domain document?
 
Hey, I just noticed the "pool laboratory" is in Tucson!! Cool. Any chance for a tour ;) I can also bring my kit and test some water samples for you....keep you honest :deal:
 
Our reports will be made available and free to everyone.
Que (my partner) and I will roll out the Red Carpet for the distinguished JoyfulNoise (Matt) from Tucson. :king:
And our camera will be rolling to keep an eye on you. No funny business with our demo pools.:whip:
 
While we are starting the layout and building process now, we are still trying to decide specifically what water chemistry parameters will work best for our study.
Our thoughts are that the CYA will be about 50 ppm for the balanced water, and about 80 ppm for the aggressive water.

The total alkalinity will be on the low side (about 60 ppm) for the aggressive water, and at about 80 ppm for the balanced water. The "carbonate" alkalinity will be lower. Obviously, the "carbonate" alkalinity will be at lower levels than "total" due to the CYA.

We will probably use 12.5% bleach, and liquid muriatic acid, and testing daily.

We welcome and are inviting Matt and other TFP moderators and experts to visit our facility (and test the water ;). We welcome your input. Just PM me and we will set up a time for a special tour.

Thank you for your interest.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
I'd be interested in seeing it... Shoot if it was closer to me I would offer free labor for the whole thing

I’ll let the state police know to issue a BOLO once you cross the line at Yuma....there will be a posse waiting for you on the other side of the Colorado River :cop:
 
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.