Cleaning calcium from pool tile using modified Harbor freight soda blaster

First off, let me say water condensation in the air line is a VERY major issue with this unit and getting it to work at all. I finally did get it to work OK but the hassle might be way too much for many, be warned. The unit I used was a $129 Harbor Freight 40 lb soda blaster designed for Armex XL blasting media (baking soda). The soda does not do a thing on removing calcium scale so don’t waste your time, it’s too soft. The soda is much finer than what I used, Maxx strip PF2 (pool finish 2), which is fine grade specifically made for pool tile cleaning. It’s harder than calcium but softer than porcelain tile and basically Epsom salt with neutral PH. The PF2 will etch plaster and grout but that was my technique and not an issue after my first tile. I did use it to clean some plaster/quartz pool surface near rocks and it didn’t damage the plaster as long as I didn’t try and clean all the calcium off and was back at least a foot from surface with nozzle. They make a courser grade PT2 (pebble tec 2) which I didn’t try and would not recommend. The retailer here said Maxx Strip PT2 is the only approved media for pebble tec. The PF2 cleaned 15 years of never cleaned VERY HEAVY scale on my desert pool tile to shiny, completely clean tile with no visible tile damage, very impressed with the product. I used almost 120 lbs (about $100) for a 14000 gallon pool on 6”x6” tile and rocks only.

I tried the soda blaster as sold, but it didn’t siphon media longer than 5 minutes before it plugged the siphon tube. I later discovered it was moisture vapor condensing and causing the media to plug the small siphon tube openings. I enlarged the siphon tube lower holes to 5/32 and single air hole near top of siphon tube to the same. Worked better but still had major plugging issues in siphon tube due to moisture. Very minimal (10%) tube blockage around upper hole would stop the siphon. I have a high quality water filter/separator at air compressor and bought two more cheap harbor freight ones, one piggy backed to the one on the soda blaster and one near the end of the line but it did little better. I then added a Harbor freight desiccant air dryer that worked but that quickly filled with moisture too so I bought another and dried one while using one, installed quick disconnects on them so changing was easy. I dried them in my oven, 275 degrees for 30 minutes or until beads turned back to blue color. There plastic so heat with your discretion. I covered them in a towel when I connected air in case it exploded but they never failed. I had to use 150 feet of air hose to reach pool and rerouted the air hose through house which helped by cooling air. My wife ran around and drained compressor tank and filters constantly but did little to help as water was still vapor and not getting caught in filters. Soda blaster takes a minimum 8.5 cfm @90 psi compressor, mine is 19 CFM with 80 gallon tank so it didn’t run hot. I ran the blasters feed wide open and at 90 PSI.
Bottom line is it will work great if you can dry the air sufficiently. The humidity here was 12% and 80 degrees the time I worked it. A MUCH better quality dryer is needed, maybe one with easily replaceable desiccant that can be swapped. IF I was to do this again, I would take a 54 quart cooler, drill and in and out hole for air hose, coil up approx. 25 feet of hose and pack with ice. That is basically what an expensive air dryer does, its just a cooler to get the moisture vapor to turn to drops so it can be filtered out.
I looked at a commercial pool media blaster unit made for Maxx strip ($1300), the one difference was it forced the media out the bottom instead of siphoning out the top. I thought since soda is moisture sensitive also that the soda blaster would work. All in all a learning experience, I am a major DIY’r so this was kind of fun, (wife didn’t think so) if anyone has questions, just ask. Nice to be able to contribute to knowledge base at TFP as I have learned so much from this site and all the great people who use it!

Wrinkled Fingers
 
Thanks.

I had this process done a few years ago and the guy that did the work had the compressor and air-dryer in the back of his commercial van. It was a gas-powered, rotary-screw driven compressor with a separate air refrigerator to deal with the moisture. He ran the air hoses out to the media hopper which was pool side. My scale was relatively light and it took him less than an hour to do the entire length of my pool and spa face. I don't think he used even half a bag of the media.

Here are before and after pics. The material really does an AMAZING job at cleaning tile and I would never use glass media blasting ever now that I know the MaxxStrip stuff exists. I don't think I have the space for the equipment, so I may just pay for the service again even though the guy requires a travel fee to come down to Tucson.


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(sorry for the rotated images....TFP is still working on it's image gallery :thumbdown: )
 
Yea, agree, $300 you mentioned previously is a great price, I was quoted $800 for my mess and said they wouldn't clean it all off. The air dryer is the key to making the blast system work and I think my homemade cooler/ice idea would rid the system of water vapor. Maxx Strip is the only way to go, I would never subject my pump to spurious glass beads, don't think you could ever get it all out. I didn't like the idea of leaving the Maxx strip media in my pool either even though most do. That's why I drained it completely, glad i did, that would have been 130 lbs of epsom salt added to the water.
Looks like you have the exact tile and color I have. My scale buildup was much, much worse, literally 1/8" deep 3 inches wide that would chip off in chunks and now its totally clean and actually shinny. I keep telling my wife that was a "natural look" and be happy. She picked at the calcium every time she got in until I finally broke down. I bought a short sale and previous owner totally neglected the pool. TFP has saved my butt several times with all the great info. Next job is replaster (not a DIY) next winter, I found some delaminations on the bottom, oh well, always something.
 
Well, the $300 bucks was probably on the cheap side because there was another pool owner in Tucson that needed the service and the guy was willing to come down and do both our pools on a Saturday. So it was a worthwhile trip for him. The other fellow's pool was as you describe - thick, thick, thick calcium deposits and he had not only standard tile but also patterned tile (lion heads) as well. His scuppers were also completely crusted up with calcium. He did that pool first and he said it took him about 2-1/2 hours mainly from all the patterned tiles. So that pool would be impossible to clean by any form of scraping because you simply can't get into all the nooks & crannies. Not to mention if you use too much "elbow grease" you can easily chip the patterns.

Yeah, epsom salt isn't great to add to the pool water. The magnesium is fine as it's very difficult to scale magnesium out of pool water. The sulfates are bad for SWG cells and plaster. So it's best to have the process done when one is considering a drain and refill or, at the very least, a significant water exchange.
 
I just had mine done by the re-plasterers while the pool was empty. It was $550, $150 of which was a travel surcharge because they had to do it on a day they were not in town. $400 would have been more reasonable, but I couldn't talk them out of the "gas tax." Interestingly, they never asked about the amount of buildup (which in my case was minimal), so I got the impression that was a flat rate. My [now X-] pool guy wanted $900. The re-plasterers used some pretty heavy duty equipment, and three guys, one of which was wearing some pretty gnarly protective gear. I was convinced after watching them that this was worth the dough.

I have a friend who has a media blaster (can use different types) that recovers the media as it works, so theoretically nothing would go into the water. Not sure if anything like that has ever been used in a pool... He seemed to think it could be...

- - - Updated - - -

My future plan is to "TFP" the problem and keep the calcium buildup zero under water and at a bare minimum at the surface, which will then be maintainable with some elbow grease (a TFP expert assured me that is possible).
 
I just had mine done by the re-plasterers while the pool was empty. It was $550, $150 of which was a travel surcharge because they had to do it on a day they were not in town. $400 would have been more reasonable, but I couldn't talk them out of the "gas tax." Interestingly, they never asked about the amount of buildup (which in my case was minimal), so I got the impression that was a flat rate. My [now X-] pool guy wanted $900. The re-plasterers used some pretty heavy duty equipment, and three guys, one of which was wearing some pretty gnarly protective gear. I was convinced after watching them that this was worth the dough.

I have a friend who has a media blaster (can use different types) that recovers the media as it works, so theoretically nothing would go into the water. Not sure if anything like that has ever been used in a pool... He seemed to think it could be...

- - - Updated - - -

My future plan is to "TFP" the problem and keep the calcium buildup zero under water and at a bare minimum at the surface, which will then be maintainable with some elbow grease (a TFP expert assured me that is possible).

They were likely using glass beads / silica if they did not explicitly say they were using kierserite (MaxxStrip). Glass media is a major inhalation hazard (especially in a confined space like a pool) and so I'm not surprised they were wearing respirators and coveralls.

As for the "TFP Solution" - YES! If you monitor your CSI and keep it at 0 or slightly negative, you will not get any scale below the water line. You will get deposits above the water line but those are primarily from evaporite and/or efflorescence. There's no way to avoid evaporite deposits and my pool, 3 years post cleaning, only has fairly mild evaporite deposits. So following TFP recommended levels will definitely save your pool from scale issues.
 
As for the "TFP Solution" - YES! If you monitor your CSI and keep it at 0 or slightly negative, you will not get any scale below the water line. You will get deposits above the water line but those are primarily from evaporite and/or efflorescence. There's no way to avoid evaporite deposits and my pool, 3 years post cleaning, only has fairly mild evaporite deposits. So following TFP recommended levels will definitely save your pool from scale issues.

So want that to be true. And since everything else here that I've tried has been so far, I'm very optimistic!
 
So want that to be true. And since everything else here that I've tried has been so far, I'm very optimistic!

Well, as a reassurance, my CH is currently 1250ppm or almost 5X the lower limit recommended and I’m able to keep my pool (under the water) completely scale free by managing the CSI closely. I will dump my water in the spring BUT it goes to show that if you follow the advice and science here, one can manage a pool in a very cost effective and ... trouble free .... way.
 
Well, as a reassurance, my CH is currently 1250ppm or almost 5X the lower limit recommended and I’m able to keep my pool (under the water) completely scale free by managing the CSI closely. I will dump my water in the spring BUT it goes to show that if you follow the advice and science here, one can manage a pool in a very cost effective and ... trouble free .... way.

Thanks J! The only trouble I've run into so far with "TFP'ing" is not being able to convince my pool-havin' friends to do it! I'm now convinced that it is not possible to take care of a pool properly with the current pool service industry business model, and knowledge base, used by all my local pool maintenance companies. There's just no way you can service a pool by dumping in a gallon of chlorine and filling the tab dispenser and then walking away for a week, and virtually nothing else for years on end. So I'm on a mission to help my friends understand what's at stake (scale, uncomfortable water, plaster damage, etc, etc), because in just a few short years of pool ownership I've experienced all of those, but it's a tough sell. They want to believe, like I did, that all they have to do is pay someone else to do it. And that should be the case, it just isn't.

END OF RANT

I'm at CH350 right from the get go from the recent fill, after my new replaster. So I hooked up my autofill to my water softener and plan on watching my CSI like a hawk. I never want to see scale, or the replaster crew, again, for the rest of my days!
 

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The Pool Maintenance company model is based on the past when you dumped a large amount of your water often, normally via backwashing your DE or sand filter. With todays' water restrictions, sewer restrictions, etc that model is failing. Not to say some of us still need to change out water every so often, but we can make it last longer and be sanitary and more enjoyable.

I do know of some municipalities, in California, that have restricted/eliminated the use of conventional water softeners, as the regeneration of them sends high solids content water into the sewer. So that will be next ------

Take care.
 
The Pool Maintenance company model is based on the past when you dumped a large amount of your water often, normally via backwashing your DE or sand filter. With todays' water restrictions, sewer restrictions, etc that model is failing. Not to say some of us still need to change out water every so often, but we can make it last longer and be sanitary and more enjoyable.

I understand conditions change and new methods are called for. And I can forgive what was done in the past, before there was a need, or before they knew better. But what gets me going is the apparent fact that these new methods are now readily available (I found them after about 20 minutes of googling), yet pool maintenance companies have yet to adopt them, or bother to seek them out and learn them. What is their excuse for letting my CYA, CH and scale get so far out of control without ever suggesting a water change? Or a SWG to get rid of the tabs? I'm still bitter about my experience, so part of me believes that ignoring CYA and CH is a means to high-profit procedures like $900 acid washes, $900 tile blasting and $6000 replasters. Not much money in it for a pool maintenance company when all they really need to do is test properly, use chlorine and MA and occasionally orchestrate a refill. They'd go out of business if they did only what they should be doing. And I have a nasty suspicion that at least some of them are well aware of that. Sorry, ranting again.


I do know of some municipalities, in California, that have restricted/eliminated the use of conventional water softeners, as the regeneration of them sends high solids content water into the sewer. So that will be next ------

My city requests softener settings to be as low as absolutely needed, but it is as yet unenforced. I'll miss the sudsy bubbles if they take mine away! ;)
 
I am with you on the water softener hooked up to the auto fill. I refilled with too much soft water though so be careful there, I am now adding calcium chloride which kills me to get my CA to a balanced CSI number. Amazing how much calcium a water softener actually removes, and how much salt it adds over years. Thank you for the wonderful calculator TFP!!!
I went to my local Leslie pool store to "double check" my numbers, I think they have been bought out and it shows. I was lied to more in my 5 minutes there than I thought possible.
I have helped my neighbors who have "professional" pool people take care of their stuff as they leave the summers here but see the same issues as you. I did a water test on some neighbors pools and was shocked on how un balanced their water was, while paying $85 a month for a "strainer banger" as i call them. Look in the back of their trucks and see how much acid you see, here in Phoenix its a weekly add especially with a salt system. Then $800 every other year to blast the calcium off.
 
I am with you on the water softener hooked up to the auto fill. I refilled with too much soft water though so be careful there, I am now adding calcium chloride which kills me to get my CA to a balanced CSI number. Amazing how much calcium a water softener actually removes, and how much salt it adds over years. Thank you for the wonderful calculator TFP!!!
I went to my local Leslie pool store to "double check" my numbers, I think they have been bought out and it shows. I was lied to more in my 5 minutes there than I thought possible.
I have helped my neighbors who have "professional" pool people take care of their stuff as they leave the summers here but see the same issues as you. I did a water test on some neighbors pools and was shocked on how un balanced their water was, while paying $85 a month for a "strainer banger" as i call them. Look in the back of their trucks and see how much acid you see, here in Phoenix its a weekly add especially with a salt system. Then $800 every other year to blast the calcium off.

I took the extra step and kept my original hard water (city water) feed connected to the new soft water circuit, so I can switch back with the twist of a couple valves. My city water is at CH350, my soft water is at CH60. So if I'm lucky enough to actually see a reduction of CH in my pool, I can just put the autofill back on city water. Sweet. Marty here thinks that's not gunna happen with just splash out, but if my softener just slows down the "CH Creep" then I'll be happy with that. I still have to check if my whole house filter and softener setup is blocking any of the city water's high TA, too. Haven't tested for that yet, but that could be a bonus if so.

I posed a question to TFP about whether they thought by letting water out of my overflow system, say an inch or two at a time (keeping it above the skimmer) and letting the auto fill refill with soft water could be an effective way to bring down my CH, but nobody's weighed in on that yet. It might play havoc with other chem levels, so maybe not worth the trouble, but it is an interesting notion.

Sending out an army of half-trained "strainer bangers" is not a sustainable business model by itself. Labor costs, employee taxes and benefits, gas, overhead, test kits, equipment, vehicles, insurance, etc, etc... there's no way for a pool service company to make any money doing that. At $20 to $30 a visit? No way. I think the weekly service is a loss-leader type deal, and the money to be made is in the acid washes, calcium removal, equipment sales and repair. There is an inherent conflict of interest in taking care of pool water properly and making money in the pool service business, plain and simple...
 
Oh, about the additional salt added from soft water. That was a concern. TFP told me that would be a non-issue. But I'm not clear if that's because soft water doesn't actually add salt, or if it's such a minuscule amount that soft water, in and of itself, doesn't significantly hasten the need to replace a pool's water...
 
Your system can handle up to 5000 ppm NaCl. After that, you risk corrosion to pool equipment, etc.
 
Your system can handle up to 5000 ppm NaCl. After that, you risk corrosion to pool equipment, etc.

So the softener will add salt? But I have a lot of leeway that offsets the benefit?

So it's kind of a race, whether the CH or the salt will drive the next water change?

So next spring, when it's time to fire up the SWG, I add only enough salt to make it happy, then let the softener do its thing over time?
 
I am not an expert on water softener chemistry. I do know that the sodium will build up in the water. It is based on how hard your water is. I am not sure how much of an issue that is.

So they do not add sodium chloride.
 
No salt build up should happen. There should only be minimal salt residue left in the resin. If you are getting salt it’s because you’re filling while it is regenerating and the bypass is not working right.

Sodium replaces calcium. The counter anion (negative ion) does not change.
 

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