Final Equipment Review before contract

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Phx_Jay

Phx_Jay

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Nov 6, 2017
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phoenix
Hello again everyone,

We are getting close to signing a contract. Could I please ask for your opinions on the equipment list and any changes I may want to ask for?

6,300 Gallons
Interior: Pebblesheen
Pump 1: Pentair Intelliflo 3 hp variable speed
Filter: Pentair sta-rite 450 cartridge
Sanitizer: IC-40 Salt
Heater: 400k NG Pentair Max-e-therm
Automation: Easy Touch w/wireless devise interface
Auto Valves: (2) water feature and therapies
Cleaning System: Paramount Tier 1 infloor
Debris Canister: Paramount EDR
Surface Skimmer: Paramount Venturi
Drain: Paramount MDX
Auto Water Leveler: Paramount paralevel
Pool Light: 400 watt white


Thanks!
 
Jay,

Make sure that your EasyTouch comes with the built-in SWCG power supply for the IC40, not an external power supply. And don't let them sell you a PL4 or PSL4 which is the cheap version and does not have an integral load center.

The sta-rite appears to be to be a very old design.. Is there any reason your builder is not using the Clean and Clear model? I have no reason to think that the sta-rite is bad, just not what I see being used most of the time.

I am not an in-floor fan, but that is a personal decision..

The EasyTouch can control two user programmable valves.. If you are using them for a water feature and a therapies feature, how are you going to turn the in-floor system on/off? (Since I don't have an in-floor system, I am not sure how they work..)

The IntelliFlo is an excellent pump... just make sure they do not sell you the one with the +SVRS option. It is not needed and tends to be problematic..

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
 
Thanks Jim! That is great advice. I will make sure to follow-up on all of those ideas. I am really considering forging the in-floor system. It would save me $3k up front. I'll do more research on the Dolphin Robot.
 
Hi Pjt,

I'm not sure why the pump is 3 HP. As far as the LED light, it was an expensive upgrade. The guy I'm working with said that I could get an LED bulb for $100 that can be controlled by my phone and just install it myself. Seemed like a pretty good savings.
 
Jay,

The reason you are getting the 3 HP IntelliFlo is that is what the EasyTouch is designed to control. The ET cannot control the lesser HP Pentair pumps without a clunky work around.

In the old days, when all you had were single speed pumps, it was very important to match the pump's HP to your pool plumbing and the filter. Within reason, this is just no longer an issue when installing a VS pump.

A VS pump really could be called a variable HP pump, because that is how you use them. Just like your car, which may have hundreds of HP, you don't use all of them all of the time. You just use what you need for the specific situation. A VS pump is the same way. You run it very slowly most of the time and crank it up for when you need higher flow.

Another great advantage of VS pumps is that at low rpms they are so quiet that you almost have to touch them to make sure they are still running. :p

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
It seems people that like their in-floor systems the most are the ones that live in areas where there is a lot of fine dirt that gets into the pool. If there is a lot of fine dirt that gets blown in, the robot might have to run every day or two which would be a pain. An in-floor system would be much nicer to have than a robotic cleaner if this is your situation.
 
I’m with Jim, ditch the in-floor system and go with a robot. Use the savings to get an IntelliBrite 5G LED color changing lightbtgat can be automated with the EastTouch.

I believe the Pentair Clean & Clear has lower head loss than the Sta-rite design. Both are made by Pentair as Pentair bought up Sta-rite over a decade ago. I believe Pentair just keeps Sta-rite around as a legacy brand. I’d ditch anything Sta-rite and just go with official Pentair brands.

- - - Updated - - -

I’d go with a MasterTemp over a MaxeTherm BUT the very best heaters are Raypak brand. I’d get a Raypak over a Pentair any day.
 
Thanks for the responses!

So it looks like I can save $3k removing the in-floor system and the Dolphin Premier Robot would cost me about $1k. We do get a lot of fine dirt from July to September due to the monsoons. The robot does well cleaning after those JoyfulNoise? I know you get just as many in Tucson.

From looking online, the Sta-rite is actually more expensive then the Pentair Clean and Clear but several hundred dollars.

I'm really glad the VS pump is going to be quiet. My last couple of pools were not very quiet. I almost felt bad for my neighbors.

I did become a forum sponsor but the badge thing isn't showing up...

The Intellibrite 5G is about $260 on Amazon open box. I wonder if I could just buy that and ask the electrician to install it when he is there.
 
Get a Dolphin S300i from a local shop that repairs them under warranty. Many local shops will refuse to work on robots they don’t sell. The S300i will give you all the features you could ever want. The dual filter system works awesome on fine debris. Look at my signature and you’ll see a link to my robot thread. I show pictures of the fine silt my S300i pics up. Even in the monsoon season and dead of summer, I only needed to run my robot every 3 days or so. I never left it in the pool 24/7 except for a vacation.

Clean and clear filter is better. Just because the StaRite costs more doesn’t make it better.

You’ll want to get as much of your Pentair equipment bundles through your builder as possible. If you get 3 pieces of equipment, then you get a 3 year warranty on everything from Pentair. I would buy the IntelliBrite through Pentair, not Amazon. They do have a failure rate associated with them and you’ll want the 3 year warranty to cover that.

- - - Updated - - -

See this thread - Hydraulics 101 - Have you lost your head?

Looks like the Pentair C&C RP model is the best. Otherwise the Sta-rite System 3 is better. Do you know what you are getting??
 

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Thanks Matt. I read through your S300i thread. Seems like a great cleaning robot. I'll see what local repair shops are around me and if they have any used/repaired ones.

They didn't say which Str-rite system so I'll have to ask.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Clean and clear filter is better. Just because the StaRite costs more doesn’t make it better.
Click to expand...

My build also calls for the StaRite filter. Certainly easy enough to change at this point, but can you elaborate in specifics on why it's inferior?
 
PoolGate said:
Is that a 400k btu heater? For a 6300 gallon pool? That is a bit overkill I think.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can probably shave a grand or more off the build price by using a heater half that capacity. In Phoenix, you will NEVER use the heater from May to Sept. and then use it in the shoulder months (Mar/Apr & Oct/Nov) to keep the pool warm for Holiday swim parties.

Unless the PB is giving you some amazing deal on it, 400kBTU is a bit much.
 
BMK said:
My build also calls for the StaRite filter. Certainly easy enough to change at this point, but can you elaborate in specifics on why it's inferior?
Click to expand...

I’m looking solely at head loss. As I posted previously, a Pentair Clean & Clear RP has half the head loss of the StarRite. If you can’t get the RP, then the StaRite is better. The RP models only go up to 200sq ft, so you have to consider that as well. A regular Clean and Clear can go all the way up to 520sq ft. Surface area impacts cleaning interval. The larger the surface area, the longer interval between cleaning.

https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media/websites/pool/downloads/filters/brochures/clean_and_clear_rp_cartridge_filter_english.pdf
 
I’m not going to get into hydraulics etc.. but the sta rite filter never stops amazing me with its debris holding capacity & when vacuuming the finer stuff that doesn’t blow through it as it would a quad system. The double sided cartridge filters are pretty great.

With that said I installed about 40 Pentair cartridge filters this season. It is an excellent filter.. reason being the sta rite is considerably expensive, even for those of us buying wholesale plus discount.

The system 3 Filter cartridge is the lines lifeline.
 
I think the biggest complaint we see around here with the Sta-rite filters is the bulky nature, the difficulty in getting the waist clamp to properly seal and just a very unwieldy unit for the DIY pool owner. As I understand it, lid and wet cartridge weight is a huge issue. The Clean & Clear quad cartridges are far easier to remove and clean and, if you pay attention to what you’re doing, they seat just fine on the manifold without issue. I have a QuadDE which is a similar design to the C&C line and it is a heck of a lot easier to pull out a wet, DE laden quad cartridge than trying to wrestle with an old school grid array. Knock-on-wood (fist tapping my head), I have never had a problem reseating the Quad cartridges.
 
I'll find out why they use the Sta-rite instead of the C&C. I didn't think about the size of the heater either. I know it won't be used much so we are thinking of going a year without it and see how much use we get with just a solar cover. Its getting hotter and hotter here every year....If I skip the in-floor system and the heater it saves about $6800. I would never be able to do the in-floor after that but I can only assume that robots will get better and better. I can add the heater very easily later but I would have to pay out of pocket and it not be included in the mortgage with the build.
 

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