Should I fire my PB? Help!

Tenamarie123

0
Bronze Supporter
Jul 6, 2017
66
Warren, MI
Please bear with me as this is a long, sordid tale. We signed our contract end of June for an inground vinyl liner pool (14’ x 36’ rectangle w/sun shelf and bubblers). Our dig started Friday, September 15th. They came back that Monday, finished the dig and put up the steel walls and concrete footings. Pause for inspection, which took about a week. After about a month of nothing happening and little to no communication, PB finally calls and says they’re scheduling vermiculite for the next Monday which was a beautiful day. They didn’t show up. No phone call. It rained for the next 3 days. I call HIM on Friday since I hadn’t gotten an update. He tells me vermiculite will be sometime the following week and why should he have to call to update me since it was raining and I could see that. He also tells me he is dropping off 10 yards of gravel which will be sitting in my driveway until concrete pool deck time. At this point, I get frustrated. Now he and I are yelling at each other as it’s now October 19th and they’ve literally been to my house 3 times to do work. He threatens to quit. He finally calms down and tells me he will make some phone calls about getting vermiculite done. He sends a crew out the next day (Saturday). This crew shows up about 9:00, gets done with about half of the vermiculite bottom, then leaves around 2:00. One of the vermiculite crew comes back 4 days later and finishes the rest of the vermiculite, spreads the 10 yards of gravel all over the backyard on top of a ton of dirt that still needed to be removed from dig day. Needless to say, PB was very upset with the vermiculite guy for spreading the gravel (poor communication?). The vermiculite pool bottom also looks really bad; uneven, bumpy and has a weeper(?). PB assures us they can fill in that big hole with some type of cement before liner is installed. He also informs us that it’s in the contract “vermiculite may not be perfect”.

About a week later PB and the owner of a cement company (Vince) stop by. He’s there to do an evaluation as PB will be using him to do the pool deck. He looks at our backyard and just shakes his head and says “how am I supposed to do cement with all of this extra dirt and mixed in gravel. PB assures Vince he will have it cleaned up and removed. Now a few days later, the same vermiculite guy who initially spread all of the gravel in the first place, comes back with machinery, removes all of the excess dirt and gravel. Vince, the cement guy comes a couple days later and spreads his gravel, and lays forms for cement. Cement gets poured on Tuesday. Rains all day Wednesday. PB says cement guys will be out Thursday to saw cut control joints. Thursday afternoon about 4:30 two young guys show up. They proceed to do their chalk(?) lines for their saw cuts. By the time that is finished, it is now completely dark out. I hear the saw fire up. I look outside and one guy is holding a flashlight as the other guy is doing the saw cuts. I could NOT believe what I was seeing. This goes on for about an hour or longer, then they’re finished. My husband and I go out the next day to look at the cuts in daylight and they are, as you can imagine, AWFUL!!! They are squiqqly, they are crooked, they are uneven they are a mess. The long cut along the house is going on an angle and is off by 10”! They missed their lines in some cases by more than 3 inches. The whole thing is a wreck and we both want to cry. I immediately call PB. Cement company owner Vince comes over about an hour later, completely defends his son’s saw cuts, screaming and yelling and cussing back and forth with my husband telling us we’re being overly picky and have OCD. Later, PB comes by and cannot believe what he is seeing. Even he agrees it looks terrible. He calls Vince and explains that he cannot defend this work and something needs to be done. Three days later I get a knock on my door and it’s a guy from a different cement company sent by Vince to check out the cuts and see what can be done to fix them. He tells me that he cannot believe how bad it looks and we are definitely not in the wrong and he is recommending to Vince that the whole thing be torn out and redone. PB doesn’t return my call that day. When he finally calls me the next day, I tell him what this other cement company recommended. He disagrees. He thinks he will be able to find someone to fix it by making the saw cuts wider and filling in with decorative stone or tile. I agree I would rather do this if it would look good than rip out all the cement. I then start thinking of how long this build has taken, we are 10 weeks in with a ton of stuff left to do, the vermiculite looks terrible, the cement now looks like terrible, I’ve paid him about 75% of contract, we may now have to wait til spring to do liner and fix/replace cement. I don’t even know what to do. If I fire PB now what happens? I lose all that money I’ve paid him and try to find someone to pick up the pieces of this mess? Can he sue me? What would you do?

See how off they are from their chalk line?
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This is the long cut by the house that goes on an angle:

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This is what the pool deck looked like after they first poured it, before the hack job:

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And this is the vermiculite:

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My sympathies. This is just awful. For what it's worth, I don't believe you are being unreasonable. There is such a thing as residential construction standards. Here's an article that describes it. Or Google it.

http://www.home-building-answers.com/quality-control.html

Trouble is, it's somewhat subjective, and that's the rub.

I've had my own set of troubles. If they're not settled out of court (we're negotiating just now), then I'll head to small claims to straighten it out. But one step I'll likely take in the interim is to get the Contractors State License Board involved. I'm here is California. Does MI have such a thing? Contact them. Make a claim if you have to. Here in California they'll sometimes send someone out to review the work. Contractors here must be bonded. For certain claims the Board can determine that the bond be levied (you get paid). Other times the Board can impose fines on the contractor, even suspend his license. All leverage you might bring to bear to get satisfaction.

You reached out here. That's a good step. Continue your Internet research and see what others have done. See what government agencies, local or state, you can involve to force the contractor to perform to industry standards. A board. A local building department. Maybe even a union rep. California is VERY pro-consumer. We are protected, to some degree, against shady contractors. Perhaps MI is the same? You don't have to take this on by yourself, there should be some number of agencies you'll be able to lean on. And, of course, if budget permits, there are lawyers that specialize in contractor law.

Not sure that's of any help... just some random ideas for you...
 
Thank you for posting that article Dirk, very interesting reading. Funny, they suggested going to look at other contractors work to compare. We were able to see Vince's own work to compare. He did a colored concrete patio for a local, very popular restaurant in our area. Patio looks great! In fact, we saw his work before he did our pool deck and were excited that our PB had hired him to do it. Thing is, if he would have done the cuts himself, I'm quite sure he (a) wouldn't have done it in the dark and (b) they would have been cut properly. Instead, he sends his son, and another novice and this is what we ended up with. I really don't want to have to go to court or anything drastic with the cement company, really just feel like they should make it right, as they know from sending another company out to get their opinion, that it's not done properly.

Also, just not sure anymore about our PB. Seems like nothing has gone right from the start and it's excuse after excuse and when is enough enough? I feel drained already from this project and it's only been 10 weeks! I know nothing is perfect and every project will have their issues but man! Just not sure I should stick with this guy. Like I said, the vermiculite bottom already concerns me too....

Dirk thanks for the sympathy and I hope you find resolution for your troubles.
 
Yah, for me and you the issue comes down to: who determines what is satisfactory. If you and the contractor don't agree, then it's for a court to decide (or some other persuasive entity). Before you decide to forgo court (I know it's intimidating), consider this:

1. If you're not satisfied, but justify letting it go because of your current stress level, and/or because of the hassles of court, remember: depending on the kind of person you are, this could eat at you for the rest of your days. You might eventually stop noticing the things that are bugging you now, you might not. But for sure, the contractor will forget all about your issues the day after he's done (and paid). Is avoiding a few days of court hassle worth X days of your dissatisfaction? Think about it. This is supposed to be your house's center piece, right? Your sanctuary. Your pride. The place where you can get away from life's many stresses... With a big ol' crooked reminder running right down the middle of it?

2. You could also consider the responsibility of taking action against shoddy workmanship: Board complaint, Yelp review, and court judgement might be what it takes to not only rectify your issue, but also keep this from happening to someone else.

OK, I know that is way harsh, and a lot to dump on someone (a virtual stranger). But I'm not your best friend who you'll be mad at for a while for saying such things! I'm the devil! (Or at least his advocate.)

Can you even fire your PB? Is there not a contract? That gets sticky. I think what I would do is gather the evidence you need to justify your complaints. Share them with the contractor. Let him know, clearly, what the level of quality you are expecting (backed up by demonstrable industry standards), and that he must either address the issues now, or you will later have someone else correct them at his expense, for which you will sue if necessary. He'll realize that paying to get this fixed later is going to be way more expensive than fixing it now, and maybe he will. Try to have a third party present, so you have a witness for future use, should it come to that.

And this just happened to me: my guy was pushing me around hoping I'd cave. He had nothing to lose. That's why that first concrete guy was yelling at you. What's it to him. If he can intimidate his way out of it, rather than making it right, he's going to (if you let him).

I stood my ground, threatened a lawsuit, stuck to my guns, and my guy later came around to offering to settle. Which was a far cry from his first stance. Now, he's low-balling me, so I have to push back, but I will. And when I point out my MO: the Board complaint and the small claims case, he'll likely pony up the rest of what I want...

Just ranting at this point. Use any of this or none... But be brave. Just because these guys won't do right by you, doesn't mean you can't do right by you!!
 
First step is to find/hire a "state recognized subject matter expert" for consult - if progressing disposition.

-- I know a very handsome one but he lives in CT.

Good tip. I thought there should be some entity like that.

The bigger picture is, nobody wants to go to court! If Tenamarie123 huffs and puffs enough, her PB will figure out that she is not someone to mess with, and I bet he'll start performing. These guys will roll over anybody that allows them to, but most will back off once they know they could end up in court.

Chances are, like my guy, once the threat becomes real, they'll pony up. You won't likely have to go to court, Tenamarie123, you just have to make the PB believe that you're willing to... And that's not that hard to do.
 
Just want to reiterate. I'm no kind of expert, I just know what happened to me, and how I'm working through it. If it helps, I apply one or both of the following two truisms (my truisms) when I'm confronted with this type of challenge:

1.
When my daughter was young, I gave her this giant blow up orca to play with at the beach. We came home one day and tied the thing up to my porch after hosing it off. Later, as I was looking out the front window, I saw some guy carrying it down the street. It was part fear to confront some stranger (bigger than me), and part disbelief it was actually happening. At one point I actually thought "Gee, there's another one!" Denial. Whatever. I did nothing. Later still, when my daughter found it missing, she was quite upset. Which determined that I go down the street to find him, but he was gone. I acted too little, too late. To this day (some thirty years later) that situation still haunts me, and without fail I regret my inaction. So since then, I try harder to stand up for myself. And I always feel better when I do.

2.
When appropriate, I apply the Judge Judy test! What is that, you ask? It's my own concoction, and I'm happy to share (man, am I a weirdo!)... For any given situation, in which conflict with another is a factor, I picture myself telling my side of the story to Judge Judy, in her TV courtroom! I can then gauge and determine future actions based on how I imagine Judge Judy would react to my tale. So, for example, if she nods sympathetically and says "Well, Dirk, you did everything you were supposed to do, it's obviously the other guy's at fault!" then I know I'm good to go. But if I can hear her say things like "Dirk, what the heck were you thinking? Why didn't you get that in writing?" or "What do you mean you didn't ask for a receipt?" or "Why did/didn't you [fill in the blank]?!?" then I gotta check myself. I just know that if I think I'd get chewed out by Judge Judy for something I did or didn't do, then I need to rethink my course of action!!

Oh, wait, there's three. Sometimes I use:

"Life is short. Eat good cheese."

That one works for all kinds of things. It's actually far more applicable to many situations than it might, at first, otherwise seem!!

Keep your chin up, Tenamarie123. Do what is right for you.
 
Yah, for me and you the issue comes down to: who determines what is satisfactory. If you and the contractor don't agree, then it's for a court to decide (or some other persuasive entity). Before you decide to forgo court (I know it's intimidating), consider this:

1. If you're not satisfied, but justify letting it go because of your current stress level, and/or because of the hassles of court, remember: depending on the kind of person you are, this could eat at you for the rest of your days. You might eventually stop noticing the things that are bugging you now, you might not. But for sure, the contractor will forget all about your issues the day after he's done (and paid). Is avoiding a few days of court hassle worth X days of your dissatisfaction? Think about it. This is supposed to be your house's center piece, right? Your sanctuary. Your pride. The place where you can get away from life's many stresses... With a big ol' crooked reminder running right down the middle of it?

Lol on the big 'ol crooked reminder! One way or another this will get fixed. Really hoping that PB can find another company to widen these joints and fill with stone. I've seen the look and if done properly, could be the answer. Yes I'm stressed (to the max) but I will not let this go.

2. You could also consider the responsibility of taking action against shoddy workmanship: Board complaint, Yelp review, and court judgement might be what it takes to not only rectify your issue, but also keep this from happening to someone else.

He actually posted pictures of our pool deck on his Facebook page. He had all of these people commenting on how great it looked and what great work he does. So I posted the "after" pictures of the hack job and explained what they did. They stayed up for about 3 days with lots of back and forth commenting from me, my husband and we think one of the original guys who were here the first day of cement. Anyway, as you've probably guessed, pictures are down, post deleted and my husband and I are blocked from his page.

OK, I know that is way harsh, and a lot to dump on someone (a virtual stranger). But I'm not your best friend who you'll be mad at for a while for saying such things! I'm the devil! (Or at least his advocate.)

Can you even fire your PB? Is there not a contract? That gets sticky. I think what I would do is gather the evidence you need to justify your complaints. Share them with the contractor. Let him know, clearly, what the level of quality you are expecting (backed up by demonstrable industry standards), and that he must either address the issues now, or you will later have someone else correct them at his expense, for which you will sue if necessary. He'll realize that paying to get this fixed later is going to be way more expensive than fixing it now, and maybe he will. Try to have a third party present, so you have a witness for future use, should it come to that.

I'm not sure about firing a PB, that's why I thought I'd ask here. Seems like I've heard of people doing that? However, fixing it at Vince's expense is ultimately what PB (and we) are aiming for. Again, he sent over someone to see what could be done and that guy's recommendation was to rip it out. I would think he would want to pay for a "fix" rather than a tear out and redo. What a job that would be!

And this just happened to me: my guy was pushing me around hoping I'd cave. He had nothing to lose. That's why that first concrete guy was yelling at you. What's it to him. If he can intimidate his way out of it, rather than making it right, he's going to (if you let him).

I stood my ground, threatened a lawsuit, stuck to my guns, and my guy later came around to offering to settle. Which was a far cry from his first stance. Now, he's low-balling me, so I have to push back, but I will. And when I point out my MO: the Board complaint and the small claims case, he'll likely pony up the rest of what I want...

Good for you for standing your ground! Don't know you personally, but am proud of you! Really hope this is the outcome for us.

Just ranting at this point. Use any of this or none... But be brave. Just because these guys won't do right by you, doesn't mean you can't do right by you!!

All good advice and believe me, we are not backing down on this one. We've paid too much money and have been looking forward to having a beautiful pool to enjoy and right now....it ain't beautiful, lol
 
First step is to find/hire a "state recognized subject matter expert" for consult - if progressing disposition.

-- I know a very handsome one but he lives in CT.
Do you know where I would even start to look to find someone like this in Michigan? Should i just Google it? Again, Vince sent someone himself to see how it could be fixed so even he sought a second opinion on this. He knows he's wrong and am just hoping and praying he comes to his senses... Really do not want to go to court over this, but will if necessary.
 

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I am so proud of everything I just read. You have a good head on your shoulders and know what needs to be done. GOOD JOB!

I have also seen the where people put "rock joints" in their decking. It can look really neat!

I do have to ask though.........do you have kids or will many kids that might come over? Kids+rocks=throwing of said rocks.

Another idea would be fake grass in the strips. We have a couple of build threads where they did this and it looks great also! Just wanted to throw that out there for an idea.

The bottom of the pool. I would have them work on it and see if they can get it any smoother. Very few, if any, are purrfect but most are better than what yours looks like in the pics. I would push back on that one as well. "I understand it might have some imperfections but..........this is way over some." Say it with direct eye contact face to face so he can see you mean it.

Kim:kim:
 
Wow. This is why they top-load the payments. You are "pot-committed" and like most people can't do anything at this point. Firing your PB would mean hiring someone else to finish the job. They would quote you, finish the job, and you would have to sue the previous PB to recover damages/difference. Even if you win in court, you would have to collect, which is harder than winning the judgement. It is a tough spot to be in! I have (still) issues with my build but mostly was not due to the pool build quality. I waited until the end and am now pursuing legal damages from the PB.

Good Luck!

- - - Updated - - -

As for control joints, my deck builder used a metal channel that is pressed into the cement when it is wet. It looks great and the lines are perfectly straight. I am not sure why all builders do not use this it is so much easier than cutting joints with a saw.
 
Just want to reiterate. I'm no kind of expert, I just know what happened to me, and how I'm working through it. If it helps, I apply one or both of the following two truisms (my truisms) when I'm confronted with this type of challenge:

1.
When my daughter was young, I gave her this giant blow up orca to play with at the beach. We came home one day and tied the thing up to my porch after hosing it off. Later, as I was looking out the front window, I saw some guy carrying it down the street. It was part fear to confront some stranger (bigger than me), and part disbelief it was actually happening. At one point I actually thought "Gee, there's another one!" Denial. Whatever. I did nothing. Later still, when my daughter found it missing, she was quite upset. Which determined that I go down the street to find him, but he was gone. I acted too little, too late. To this day (some thirty years later) that situation still haunts me, and without fail I regret my inaction. So since then, I try harder to stand up for myself. And I always feel better when I do.

This story made me laugh and feel bad for you at the same time. But shame on that guy for stealing a child's toy! And good for you for taking a not so great situation and learning from it.

2.
When appropriate, I apply the Judge Judy test! What is that, you ask? It's my own concoction, and I'm happy to share (man, am I a weirdo!)... For any given situation, in which conflict with another is a factor, I picture myself telling my side of the story to Judge Judy, in her TV courtroom! I can then gauge and determine future actions based on how I imagine Judge Judy would react to my tale. So, for example, if she nods sympathetically and says "Well, Dirk, you did everything you were supposed to do, it's obviously the other guy's at fault!" then I know I'm good to go. But if I can hear her say things like "Dirk, what the heck were you thinking? Why didn't you get that in writing?" or "What do you mean you didn't ask for a receipt?" or "Why did/didn't you [fill in the blank]?!?" then I gotta check myself. I just know that if I think I'd get chewed out by Judge Judy for something I did or didn't do, then I need to rethink my course of action!!

I am seriously LOL, I do this too! It is my opinion that Judge Judy would definitely take both of our sides against these PB!!

Oh, wait, there's three. Sometimes I use:

"Life is short. Eat good cheese."

That one works for all kinds of things. It's actually far more applicable to many situations than it might, at first, otherwise seem!!

Keep your chin up, Tenamarie123. Do what is right for you.

Thanks for this Dirk. I was feeling sorry for myself at first then realized there is a solution to this problem and we will find it. Not going to let it bring me down. Trying to stay focused on the end picture....swimming in our beautiful sparkly TFP water pool and looking at NOT crooked cement lines :)




I am sitting back to enjoy this show! These two have your back and give very solid thought and advice for you to consider.

We will all support you no matter what you end up doing :hug:

Kim:kim:

Thanks for the support Kim! Pull up a chair and enjoy the show. Hopefully this movie has a happy ending :)

::epds::
 
I am so proud of everything I just read. You have a good head on your shoulders and know what needs to be done. GOOD JOB!

I have also seen the where people put "rock joints" in their decking. It can look really neat!

I do have to ask though.........do you have kids or will many kids that might come over? Kids+rocks=throwing of said rocks.

Another idea would be fake grass in the strips. We have a couple of build threads where they did this and it looks great also! Just wanted to throw that out there for an idea.

The bottom of the pool. I would have them work on it and see if they can get it any smoother. Very few, if any, are purrfect but most are better than what yours looks like in the pics. I would push back on that one as well. "I understand it might have some imperfections but..........this is way over some." Say it with direct eye contact face to face so he can see you mean it.

Kim:kim:

We do have three older kids (20, 17, 12) and I've thought about that with the rock idea. PB suggested grouting or putting some type of sealer on the rocks to keep them in place? Not exactly sure how but that was his thoughts. I have seen the fake grass in between too and like that as well. Again, if this "fix" gets done properly it could turn out beautiful..

As far as the vermiculite goes, that looks a mess! I've asked him a few times how he plans to fix that and he just replies "it'll be fine". Hmm...doesn't look fine to me. I've read in some instances they use a sander to smooth it out? At any rate, I will definitely keep on top of the situation. No way a liner is going to hide all of those cracks and bumps. Have read enough on here to know that turn the pool lights on at night and it could look like the surface of the moon!


Wow. This is why they top-load the payments. You are "pot-committed" and like most people can't do anything at this point. Firing your PB would mean hiring someone else to finish the job. They would quote you, finish the job, and you would have to sue the previous PB to recover damages/difference. Even if you win in court, you would have to collect, which is harder than winning the judgement. It is a tough spot to be in! I have (still) issues with my build but mostly was not due to the pool build quality. I waited until the end and am now pursuing legal damages from the PB.

Good Luck!

- - - Updated - - -

As for control joints, my deck builder used a metal channel that is pressed into the cement when it is wet. It looks great and the lines are perfectly straight. I am not sure why all builders do not use this it is so much easier than cutting joints with a saw.

I really do feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place on this one. As far as firing PB, really don't want to go this route but my husband is pretty certain he could finish the job himself. He thinks he could have done a better job on the vermiculite than these guys did anyway. I still need most of the equipment, etc. PB has left lights and a ton of vermiculite here at our house, could I keep it, lol? I have paid him a ton of money so far....

I hope you win the battle with your PB. I've read through your build, I'll have to read again and see what issues you had.

Why, oh why didn't they use a metal channel for our control joints?! Sounds way easier than saw cutting...just wish this wasn't happening!!
 
Even if you win in court, you would have to collect, which is harder than winning the judgement.

I really don't think it will come to that, because, like you said, the guy knows he messed up, or does now once he got the report back from the guy who concluded "Rip it out." But if it comes to it, you might check with your states' Contractors Board (I believe both FL and MI have one). Do a little Googling and see what pressure they can wield against misbehavin' State Contractors. You don't need to file with them yet, but a few quotes about what they can do, injected at the right time into conversations with either your PB or his sub, might nudge them along a little faster. I found the CA code online and it was quite easy to read and understand. I'll be using the code numbers my pool guy violated in a letter to him. My instinct is that is going to get results. I'll let you know...

Point was: in California, if you sue a Contractor and win a judgement, and the guy won't pay (they have 30 days to pay, here), our Board will suspend their contractor's license until they pay! Yep. They go out of business and can't work. Now, that might be counter productive if the guy is living day to day, so I'll have to weigh that move carefully, but certainly the threat of that, backed up by the code number, will go a long way, again, should it come to that. If I sue and win, I'll get paid or put my guy of work. See if that's true for you.


have also seen the where people put "rock joints" in their decking. It can look really neat!

IMHO, I think widening the cuts and putting in some sort of inlay could be cool. Though I'm not sure how that's going to fix the line you said was 10" askew. If that's right, and they make the cut that wide to hide it, that could be cool, too. Though I'd then want all the lines made that wide, to look right, and I'd want them placed around the entire deck, like they were meant to be there, not hiding something. If it was designed right, I suppose even inlays of varying widths could look good, too. However it's done, that seems like a reasonable solution/compromise that could leave both parties walking away feeling good about it. And that is ultimately what you want.

One caution to consider...

My deck is done just like that. I have flagstone coping* and inlays to match:

IMG_3340.jpg

I LOVE them. And they don't have to be straight, necessarily, they could be curved or skewed even. Could be done in such a way as to add some personality to your concrete that you might not have originally considered. Sorry, showing off. Point was: there is an expansion joint running around the entire perimeter of the coping. It's rubbery, and allows for the problem when butting concrete up to stone, which is: they don't expand and contract at the same rate. The expansion joint takes care of that. Now, my inlays were not set that way, they were put in with mortar, and now the mortar is popping out or pulling away, cracking here and there, for that very expansion-problem reason. I asked the tile guy that worked on my remodel if he could fix that, and he said not to put mortar back in there, but use the expansion stuff (which I happen to know how to do). So... if you're going to fix your deck with inlays, make sure the installer accounts for this issue in some way.

*Flagstone, by the way, at least the type I have, is awful for coping. I absolutely LOVE the look, but it deteriorates from the water, and the salt, and turns back into sand (it is, after all, just compressed sand). I had the problem solved, so if anyone has that problem, I can tell them how to fix it. But it wasn't cheap. And my stone has a gnarly, jagged edge, which I also love, but isn't particularly kid friendly. I didn't build this pool, but I do like what the previous owner's did. I'm just not sure I'd do it exactly the same if I had it to do over.

And you might keep in mind, should you do something similar to solve your issues... you might be able to see them from space!! :p

Screen Shot 2017-07-07 at 1.57.31 PM.jpg

OK, one last thought, a little holiday inspiration, then I gotta go get my turkey on!! The debacle with my pool guy has been incredibly stressful. I got physically ill. Went on for months. And not because it was so bad. In the grand scheme of things. I didn't contract some horrible disease. Nobody died. Life on this planet will go on. It was just a few thousand dollars of plaster, after all. No, it was because I just get worked up over such things, and let it get to me. But now that it is coming to it's conclusion, whether I get any money out of the guy or not, I can look back on the experience and see the silver lining. I have a brand new pool! It looks 100x better than it did. And the plaster guys fixed some other things about the pool that I didn't like (they deleted the drains, they added directional eyeballs, etc), and I've come to realize that this knucklehead has actually done me a favor, in the long run. I have a better pool for it, and he might have to pay for most of it! And... it led me here, to TFP, which is going to allow me to maintain this pool myself and keep it looking amazing, for the rest of my life. Not to mention saving me about $50K in pool maintenance costs over the next 20 years or so. Now, I don't mean to lessen what you are going through, what you're feeling is real, but my holiday wish for you is that, in the end, you too will be able to look back, be proud of what you accomplished, be proud of the way you fought for it, and end up with a nicer pool than you would have otherwise!

Cheers, and Happy Thanksgiving all!!
 
Ha, ala Steve Jobs... "One more thing." The jumping rock. I love that, too. Is it too late for you to put one in? My g-kids go crazy on/off it, use it every time they swim. And every time they cannon-ball water out of the pool, they'll be lowering my problem-CH!! ;)

Sorry, that's the TFP talking!!
 
- to the metallic control joints, most town inspectors won't catch it because pool is likely approved by deck time-- but they require bonding in proximity to the pool..

Mine are not bonded. They sunk them into the cement while it was drying. Not sure what type of bonding problem these could cause? The deck itself is bonded and they are attached to the deck. Could you post anything on these? I'm curious.
 
Lil off the OP here, Concrete deck itself isn't bonded the steel bars ladders mounts etc in the deck are bonded.. - metal elements 5 ft from inside pool are called to be bonded.
Find out which NEC680 your state is under & consult your officials or a private entity I think you may have stumbled on ammunition, for that thing you have going on.
 
Lil off the OP here, Concrete deck itself isn't bonded the steel bars ladders mounts etc in the deck are bonded.. - metal elements 5 ft from inside pool are called to be bonded.
Find out which NEC680 your state is under & consult your officials or a private entity I think you may have stumbled on ammunition, for that thing you have going on.

Thanks I will check this out. The metal is completely stand-alone though not touching anything so where would stray electric come from that might energize the control metal strips? They literally are floating on the concrete. I don't see how you could bond these unless you somehow connected the copper bonding grid wire to each one of these control strips which they are totally not designed to do. I would think that the designers and sellers of these products would have to comply with bonding codes and if these needed to be bonded and they would have a method for doing that.
 

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