My Trouble Free Pool - Copper Sulfate

[prousseau]

I know this will go again the purists who say "all you need is Chlorine". Posting this just as my experience because it has been really life changing. First note my pool is not white but a mottled blue gray plaster and I don't care about appearance too much.
I researched Copper sulfate 1.5 years ago. EPA considers small concentrations allowable for drinking water. I took my chances bought some on amazon for $20, and some Cu testing strips. I think you want to shoot for about 0.5-1ppm.
A buddy of mine said I might kill my salt cell, because of electrolysis, but I had already done it.
1.5 years later I'm happy to say:
1) no stains I can see (but remember my pool is darker and mottled) - I think the secret here is don't keep adding the stuff - get it right and stop. It doesn't evaporate to my knowledge.
2) no problem with the salt cell - in fact funtionning better than ever because my CYA is really under control because I have not had to shock the pool during that whole time except once (see item 3)
3) No algae problems at all except once. I leave my pool unattended for weeks at time, I come back, everything is fine. The only time I had an issue was after the first spring, I had dumped a lot of rain water and not adjusted my CuSO4 back up. One algae bloom in a year and half. Got my Copper sulfate back up and no problem since then.

So may not be for everyone, but for me, it has been absolute heaven and truly trouble free. I have not added Chlorine except for that one algae bloom. Usually with a salt cell, you don't need to, but realistically its hard to get it exactly right. I have had my Chlorine go very low and I was not punished for it, no algae.

Again, just sharing in case this can help some people. Use at your own risk, don't go to high, read the posts about staining. You can do everything with Chlorine, but I found this much more forgiving.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Paul, the biggest problem is your pool is not safe to swim in unless it is you and only you. Copper does not protect against bacteria or viral transmission, gastric woes from others, skin infections, eye infections are certainly all possible in your pool.

And blonds can find their hair turning really, really green! Ooops!

Copper works well as an algaecide but NOT against the other *cooties* I mention. Please reconsider your choices.

Maddie

 

[CJadamec]

Actually he said he is using a SWG and has managed to track his CYA levels, not sure about his testing method tho.

It sounds like he has used copper as an algecide and continued the SWG for sanitation. It also sounds like pool store testing and or lack of sufficient chlorine in the past do to high cya levels from magic pool store potions. Another possibility is that the SWG is too small for the pool and or starting to go bad.

All the problems with copper aside in this case it is only masking the problem of inconsistent FC levels in the pool. Which as was pointed out is not a stay healthy while swimming.

 

[domct203]

I have a SWG, do not use copper or other algaecides, and do not get algae.

Sure, I'll occasionally add some bleach for swim parties etc, but otherwise all I check is FC & CC daily, pH every 3-5 days, and the rest monthly. Adding copper would just be another thing to check and track, more trouble than it is worth to me.

I am glad that the OP found a method that works for them to enjoy their pool, but it is not one that I would recommend. I get the same results with just one chemical (chlorine) and no metals.

 

[duraleigh]

I am glad that the OP found a method that works for them to enjoy their pool, but it is not one that I would recommend.

Nor will TFP ever suggest it, either. Copper is a complication that is not necessary to maintain a crystal clear pool.

back in April, 2016, jblizzle suggested dropping the unnecessary stuff (here) but OP continues. That's fine and there is certainly more than one way to skin a cat.

That said, the BEST way to skin the pool water cat is by following TFP guidelines. It's the simplest, usually the cheapest, and, oh yeah, it works perfectly!

 

[Donldson]

Again, just sharing in case this can help some people. Use at your own risk, don't go to high, read the posts about staining. You can do everything with Chlorine, but I found this much more forgiving.

Now wait, why would you give advice that you specifically have to warn people could go horribly wrong? Why would you, after reading post after post after post on staining, possibly share that people should put themselves in a position to get such staining?

Just FYI, if you ever have to preface your advice with "use at your own risk" then it probably doesn't belong on TFP. Given your 3 posts are all about using copper it is clear you have had a pretty set agenda from the beginning. You don't need to be some "chlorine purist" to recognize that your failure to maintain your pool and eagerness to find shortcuts does not leave you in a good position to offer anybody advice.

But it is your pool and your call on what goes in it, I wish you the best of luck with it.

 

[needsajet]

One of the fundamentals of TFPC is that algae is used as the 'first sign of trouble'.

If non-recommended chems are used to prevent algae, this 'algae alert' is likely to be lost from the system.

When using TFPC, it's nearly impossible to have an accidentally unsanitary pool, because if algae is non-existent and FC is maintained per the FC/CYA chart, the pool is safe and sanitary - simple as that. So TFPC can't include copper as an algaecide because of sanitation risk, along with the likelihood of staining.

While I don't agree, I found your explanation and reasoning easy to understand and respectful. I appreciated the detail you provided about your unique situation and tolerance for risk.

 

[mtbarr64]

I know this will go again the purists who say "all you need is Chlorine". Posting this just as my experience because it has been really life changing. First note my pool is not white but a mottled blue gray plaster and I don't care about appearance too much.
I researched Copper sulfate 1.5 years ago. EPA considers small concentrations allowable for drinking water. I took my chances bought some on amazon for $20, and some Cu testing strips. I think you want to shoot for about 0.5-1ppm.
A buddy of mine said I might kill my salt cell, because of electrolysis, but I had already done it.
1.5 years later I'm happy to say:
1) no stains I can see (but remember my pool is darker and mottled) - I think the secret here is don't keep adding the stuff - get it right and stop. It doesn't evaporate to my knowledge.
2) no problem with the salt cell - in fact funtionning better than ever because my CYA is really under control because I have not had to shock the pool during that whole time except once (see item 3)
3) No algae problems at all except once. I leave my pool unattended for weeks at time, I come back, everything is fine. The only time I had an issue was after the first spring, I had dumped a lot of rain water and not adjusted my CuSO4 back up. One algae bloom in a year and half. Got my Copper sulfate back up and no problem since then.

So may not be for everyone, but for me, it has been absolute heaven and truly trouble free. I have not added Chlorine except for that one algae bloom. Usually with a salt cell, you don't need to, but realistically its hard to get it exactly right. I have had my Chlorine go very low and I was not punished for it, no algae.

Again, just sharing in case this can help some people. Use at your own risk, don't go to high, read the posts about staining. You can do everything with Chlorine, but I found this much more forgiving.

Why add another variable? KISS, Keep It Simple Student....

 

[Swampwoman]

Paul, a dear friend of mine felt as you do about 20 years ago, and sure enough, he was algae-free.

When I bought a house with a pool six years ago, before finding TFP, he was quick to tell me his bulletproof system.

The next summer his wife's hair literally turned green. I ended up buying him a TFP kit and introducing him to a more precise method of pool care Not sure that it took. Her trip to the hairdressers cost a lot more than the kit, btw

The long-term effect of that concentration misstep is still with them, whether its obvious to him or not. His wife no longer trusts the water and seriously is semi-adverse to swimming in her own pool, which, btw, she won't do without a bathing cap.

That might sound minor in the larger scheme of things, and in terms of sanitation, it is. But the psychological impact of familial confidence in water quality should not be underestimated.

When you say this:

I think you want to shoot for about 0.5-1ppm

it makes me very nervous about a) your understanding of the behavior of copper and b) whether or not you actually test your ph levels much. Perhaps you control your ph tightly, which would explain how you're avoiding oxidization.

But .5-1 ppm copper CAN and WILL stain and copper test strips are notoriously imprecise. Anything greater than .3 ppm is likely to stain and generally unforgiving.

With a swg, and cya added deliberately to 70-80, and using the [fc/cya][/FC/cya] chart, coincidentally, I've been algae-free since opening this pool - six years now. It's not only entirely possible to do this without copper - its preferable, because it (the levels, not just the absence of algae) means my water has been wholly sanitized and pathogen free for the duration. That's an important distinction to make because algae is sorta the canary in the coal mine in terms of FC.

 

[cubbybeave08]

And Copper Sulfate is the stuff they put in sewer main lines to kill tree roots. Not sure, I'd put it in my pool at any concentration. Just saying.

 

[domct203]

And Copper Sulfate is the stuff they put in sewer main lines to kill tree roots. Not sure, I'd put it in my pool at any concentration. Just saying.

Reminds me of this thread.....

Copper Sulfate usage???

 

[RobertScalchi]

I've learned from TFP over the last 6 years just how unnecessary copper sulfate, and Algecide really is...

I personally wouldn't want it in my water.

That said.....I was throwing around the idea a few years ago to build a ionizer with a small very low amp battery charger and a copper rod as an anode to put into my pool to prevent algae.
Instead what I did is I took a few short pieces of electrical 12/2 romex wire, and tied it around the supports of my ladder.

Has anyone ever tried the copper ionizer anode method here before just out of curiosity?

 

[domct203]

I've learned from TFP over the last 6 years just how unnecessary copper sulfate, and Algecide really is...

I personally wouldn't want it in my water.

That said.....I was throwing around the idea a few years ago to build a ionizer with a small very low amp battery charger and a copper rod as an anode to put into my pool to prevent algae.
Instead what I did is I took a few short pieces of electrical 12/2 romex wire, and tied it around the supports of my ladder.

Has anyone ever tried the copper ionizer anode method here before just out of curiosity?

You will still be putting copper into the water ......

 

[cfherrman]

Preventing algae is a seriously bad idea, how do you know the water is safe? You can have a clear pool with insufficient FC to kill pathogens.

Anything with copper is even a worse idea.

 

[Sourcandy]

Good evening, been reading TFP for a few months now. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just curious for the facts...
Copper in the water seems to be shunned as it masks the tell for contaminated water is the general vibe I get from reading. Just curious as you can find .gov and .edu websites stating the antimicrobial properties of copper in the water and how it has tested successful in killing pathogens in 3rd world countries within acceptable WHO standards. Like I stated, just searching for facts.

I can certainly understand that masking the tell (algae) would be concerning if you thought you had healthy water and ended up getting sick from your pool. It seems though, that copper and silver serve as water purifiers from what I have researched. Set me straight here... is it the low concentrations that are concern to healthy water? Does copper not actually have antibacterial/microbial properties?

Thanks for the chat...

 

[JohnT]

Good evening, been reading TFP for a few months now. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just curious for the facts...
Copper in the water seems to be shunned as it masks the tell for contaminated water is the general vibe I get from reading. Just curious as you can find .gov and .edu websites stating the antimicrobial properties of copper in the water and how it has tested successful in killing pathogens in 3rd world countries within acceptable WHO standards. Like I stated, just searching for facts.

I can certainly understand that masking the tell (algae) would be concerning if you thought you had healthy water and ended up getting sick from your pool. It seems though, that copper and silver serve as water purifiers from what I have researched. Set me straight here... is it the low concentrations that are concern to healthy water? Does copper not actually have antibacterial/microbial properties?

Thanks for the chat...

Welcome to TFP!

Copper and silver have antimicrobial properties. But there are two significant issues with using them in pools:

First, a key function of a sanitizer in a pool is to prevent transfer of pathogens between bathers. The slow kill rate of silver and copper makes them ineffective for this purpose, while the fast kill rate of chlorine makes it good for this purpose.

Second, metals in the water accumulate and will eventually cause unsightly stains on pool surfaces which may be permanent. Not to mention the staining of hair and fingernails of swimmers.

The bottom line is that copper and silver don’t reduce the need for chlorine, bromine or biguanide, they have negative effects when in the water and they provide no benefit that can’t be obtained using other chemicals that don’t have the negative effects.

 

[Okoth]

Some eye openers...

There are people who take copper supplements because they are copper deficient. Copper is not necessary a bad thing.

Copper sulfate in the U.S. is used as a pesticide to control bacteria and fungus growth on fruits, vegetables, and other crops. You probably didn't stop eating those, did you? You might say that the dose is very little, but the same thing can be said about the dose put into a pool. And if you think we can rely on testing pesticides in our food before selling them, think twice: U.S. apples are not allowed to be eaten in Europe because of the chemicals that were used.

Those who are in favor of chlorine, here is an abstract of a scientific study about chlorine.
In this study, we show that although the growth and behaviors of experimental rats were not affected, their health, training effects and metabolic profiles were significantly affected by a 12-week swimming training program in chlorinated water identical to that of public pools. Interestingly, the eyes and skin are the organs that are more directly affected than the lungs by the irritants in chlorinated water; instead of chlorination, training intensity, training frequency and choking on water may be the primary factors for lung damage induced by swimming.

Another eye opener for some who commented: it all comes down to the right amount. Bad things might happen when you add a couple of pounds of CuSo4 in your pool, but if you keep it under 0.5ppm I would like to read some scientific article that says it is bad. Not something you heard from your neighbor. When you pH and chlorine levels are right and the copper sulfate is below 0.5ppm your hair won't turn green, there won't be any stains and you can certainly not kill tree roots with it. I suggest you buy some copper sulfate, put your pool water in a 5 gallon bucket and do some experiments. See if it stains, turn the water black, or your hair green.

Btw I'm not a fan of copper sulfate and I don't think you should use it if you can maintain your pool crystal clear, but there are situations that people might consider it. One of those situations is when you don't have the tools or chemicals to test the water other than pH and chlorine (as in my case) or don't have access to chemicals to raise or lower the CYA or other stuff in the pool.

 

[JohnT]

Some eye openers...

There are people who take copper supplements because they are copper deficient. Copper is not necessary a bad thing.

Copper sulfate in the U.S. is used as a pesticide to control bacteria and fungus growth on fruits, vegetables, and other crops. You probably didn't stop eating those, did you? You might say that the dose is very little, but the same thing can be said about the dose put into a pool. And if you think we can rely on testing pesticides in our food before selling them, think twice: U.S. apples are not allowed to be eaten in Europe because of the chemicals that were used.

Those who are in favor of chlorine, here is an abstract of a scientific study about chlorine.
In this study, we show that although the growth and behaviors of experimental rats were not affected, their health, training effects and metabolic profiles were significantly affected by a 12-week swimming training program in chlorinated water identical to that of public pools. Interestingly, the eyes and skin are the organs that are more directly affected than the lungs by the irritants in chlorinated water; instead of chlorination, training intensity, training frequency and choking on water may be the primary factors for lung damage induced by swimming.

Another eye opener for some who commented: it all comes down to the right amount. Bad things might happen when you add a couple of pounds of CuSo4 in your pool, but if you keep it under 0.5ppm I would like to read some scientific article that says it is bad. Not something you heard from your neighbor. When you pH and chlorine levels are right and the copper sulfate is below 0.5ppm your hair won't turn green, there won't be any stains and you can certainly not kill tree roots with it. I suggest you buy some copper sulfate, put your pool water in a 5 gallon bucket and do some experiments. See if it stains, turn the water black, or your hair green.

Btw I'm not a fan of copper sulfate and I don't think you should use it if you can maintain your pool crystal clear, but there are situations that people might consider it. One of those situations is when you don't have the tools or chemicals to test the water other than pH and chlorine (as in my case) or don't have access to chemicals to raise or lower the CYA or other stuff in the pool.

You are completely missing the point. Copper sulfate is in no way shape or form a safe alternative to chlorine. A pool requires a sanitizer in order to be safe and all pool sanitizers are registered as pesticides with the EPA. No form of copper or silver product is registered with the EPA as a pool water sanitizer. There is no level of copper that makes pool water safe without normal levels of chlorine. Copper has no benefit and numerous bad side effects.

 

[Okoth]

Sorry but your missing my point. I haven't said that copper sulfate is an alternative to chlorine. I wrote: When you pH and chlorine levels are right and the copper sulfate is below 0.5ppm....

 

[JohnT]

Sorry but your missing my point. I haven't said that copper sulfate is an alternative to chlorine. I wrote: When you pH and chlorine levels are right and the copper sulfate is below 0.5ppm....

If your chlorine level is right, copper serves no purpose in the water. Chlorine alone will keep the water crystal clear. There is no benefit from adding copper.