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Thread: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these results?

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    stuyyyy3's Avatar
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    Exclamation Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these results?

    Hello everyone,

    Recently moved to Las Vegas and the house has a pool. It was previously looked after by one of those lazy pool guys for 20 minutes once a week that used the Chlorine pucks. I've decided to look after the pool myself using the TFP methods and used the recommended Taylor test kit today to obtain the following values:

    Pool size : 23,000 gallons (estimated) including built in spa.

    pH : 7.8-8.0 (hard to tell exactly as the colors look a little similar)
    TA : 200 ppm
    CH : 1375 ppm
    CYA : Looks to be way over 100 as the test kit was barely halfway to 100 CYA before the black dot disappeared. It looks like a logarithmic scale so perhaps it could even be near 1000?! See attached picture.
    FC : 15ppm
    CC : 0.5ppm

    The pool has two main drains, and it looks like it has two drains in the attached spa.
    The pump is a Pentair intelliflo variable speed ultra energy efficient pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP)
    The filter is a cartridge filter by Hayward Pool Products Model # C5030
    The heater is a gas heater Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp.




    Should I just drain the pool and start over? Feeling a bit overwhelmed.

    IMG_9634.jpg

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Welcome to the forum!

    It does look like a drain and refill is in your near future. Good time of year to do it. Not real hot so not as much risk on your plaster.

    Do you have extensive calcium buildup at your water line? With that CH and pH I would suspect you do. Would be a good time to do a waterline clean too. There are service companies that use a Kieserite blast to clean it.

    Have some CYA powder, muriatic acid, and bleach on hand when you drain and refill. Use PoolMath to determine how much CYA you will need for 30 ppm.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Quote Originally Posted by mknauss View Post
    Welcome to the forum!

    It does look like a drain and refill is in your near future. Good time of year to do it. Not real hot so not as much risk on your plaster.

    Do you have extensive calcium buildup at your water line? With that CH and pH I would suspect you do. Would be a good time to do a waterline clean too. There are service companies that use a Kieserite blast to clean it.

    Have some CYA powder, muriatic acid, and bleach on hand when you drain and refill. Use PoolMath to determine how much CYA you will need for 30 ppm.

    Take care.
    Not an extensive buildup but you can feel a small ridge with your hand in some parts. The most calcium buildup is where the in-built spa overflows into the pool (fountain type effect). To the sides of that is noticeable calcium buildup but it's nothing too crazy.

    A few questions.

    1 ) I don't see any algae yet. Is the pool/spa sufficiently chlorinated with such high CYA levels that it is safe to use?

    2 ) Since I can't lower levels of CYA and CH without a drain and refill, can I just continue using chlorine pucks until the pool is drained? Seems a waste of money to use liquid bleach when these values are so off anyway.

    3 ) How dangerous is it to drain the pool? I've heard horror stories of the pool floating up from the ground sometimes

    Thank you

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    I would not swim in that but as it is your pool the chance of person to person disease transmission is not high. For proper FC levels you would need to first do a dilute CYA test - see step 8 in Pool School - CYA then follow FC/CYA Chart.

    I would think bleach would be cheaper. You should not have much FC loss at this time of year. I am down to about 0.5ppm per day.

    You should always take caution in draining a pool. But we live in a desert. To the best of my knowledge there are no shallow water tables here. But you need to check that for your area. I freely drain mine. I live next to the Colorado River with a soil content made up of decomposed granite. Water drains like it is going down a drain.

    Keep asking questions. I use the same water as you will be using for fill water so I know what you will experience.

    Take care.

    - - - Updated - - -

    When you can, please fill out a signature. See Pool School - Getting Started
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Quote Originally Posted by mknauss View Post
    I would not swim in that but as it is your pool the chance of person to person disease transmission is not high. For proper FC levels you would need to first do a dilute CYA test - see step 8 in Pool School - CYA then follow FC/CYA Chart.

    I would think bleach would be cheaper. You should not have much FC loss at this time of year. I am down to about 0.5ppm per day.

    You should always take caution in draining a pool. But we live in a desert. To the best of my knowledge there are no shallow water tables here. But you need to check that for your area. I freely drain mine. I live next to the Colorado River with a soil content made up of decomposed granite. Water drains like it is going down a drain.

    Keep asking questions. I use the same water as you will be using for fill water so I know what you will experience.

    Take care.

    - - - Updated - - -

    When you can, please fill out a signature. See Pool School - Getting Started
    Thanks again.

    More questions :

    1 : If my CYA level is above 120 or so (after performing a dilute CYA test) those charts you referenced have no corresponding FC value. How would I find out the FC level I require if my CYA level is off those charts?

    2 : Why is my CH so high? Is Nevada water just that hard? How do people keep it down?

    3 : Is there a realistic way to solve my water chemistry issues without draining the pool?

    4 : Any downsides to using pucks right now if it's lower maintenance? I don't really see the point in pouring bleach in every day when I'm not even using the pool this time of year. And if water chemistry issues cannot be solved without a drain, what have I got to lose?
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    1. You can use a percentage. You should target a FC of 10-12% of your CYA. Realize that your pH measurement is NOT accurate when your FC is above 10.
    2. Your fill water should be close to mine, CH of 250. With our evaporation, you will see your CH rise to 1000 in about two years. You can manage it up to 1000 ppm but you need to learn to manage your CSI. We can get into that later. Then you will drain and refill. Or you can hire Reverse Osmosis. It is very expensive vs the cost of our water. There is nothing you can do to reduce your CH climb unless you use softened water for your fill water.
    3. NO.
    4. Probably not. Just realize that the use of solid chlorine for the daily maintenance of this pool is not sustainable. By far the best way to chlorinate a pool here in the desert is a SWCG. See Pool School - How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Quote Originally Posted by mknauss View Post
    1. You can use a percentage. You should target a FC of 10-12% of your CYA. Realize that your pH measurement is NOT accurate when your FC is above 10.
    2. Your fill water should be close to mine, CH of 250. With our evaporation, you will see your CH rise to 1000 in about two years. You can manage it up to 1000 ppm but you need to learn to manage your CSI. We can get into that later. Then you will drain and refill. Or you can hire Reverse Osmosis. It is very expensive vs the cost of our water. There is nothing you can do to reduce your CH climb unless you use softened water for your fill water.
    3. NO.
    4. Probably not. Just realize that the use of solid chlorine for the daily maintenance of this pool is not sustainable. By far the best way to chlorinate a pool here in the desert is a SWCG. See Pool School - How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    I've decided to drain the pool using a sump rented from home depot. Las Vegas water recommends 12 gallons per minute into the sewer line but these pumps are about 50 gallons per minute from what I've read. Are they normally adjustable in speed?

    What chemicals will I need on hand that I should buy now after it is refilled (if I'm maintaining with liquid bleach).

    Thanks
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Quote Originally Posted by stuyyyy3 View Post
    I've decided to drain the pool using a sump rented from home depot. Las Vegas water recommends 12 gallons per minute into the sewer line but these pumps are about 50 gallons per minute from what I've read. Are they normally adjustable in speed?

    What chemicals will I need on hand that I should buy now after it is refilled (if I'm maintaining with liquid bleach).

    Thanks
    Not sure on the sump pump speed. I use a $60 sump pump I bought at Home Depot. Puts out about 7 GPM through my 75' hose to the sewer cleanout. It is slow but not a big deal with my size pool. The issue with a higher rate into your cleanout is if your lateral to the main line is somewhat clogged it can back up into a drain in your house.

    As I said in a post above
    Have some CYA powder, muriatic acid, and bleach on hand when you drain and refill. Use PoolMath to determine how much CYA you will need for 30 ppm.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    It will take me roughly 24 hours to drain the pool at the recommended speed into the sewer. Are there any issues with that length of time to drain the pool? Not sure if it needs to be completed within a certain timeframe.
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Not a big deal this time of year. You should not let your plaster stay dry very long. It is less an issue this time of year as it is cooler. If it is in bright sun when you drain you may want to wet it occasionally until you can start filling.

    So -- for the future, when your CH gets high, you need to consider planning your drain / refill. Winter is best.

    As you are filling is a great time to add your CYA. Put the CYA in a sock or two, and I tie them to a handle on a bucket, and direct one of the hoses to in the bucket to dissolve the CYA.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    If it takes too long to drain (say 24 hours for half the pool to be empty), would you recommend refilling after halfway and then repeating the process? Or it doesn't really matter if it took a couple of days if it's mild weather and i wet down the plaster?

    Thanks
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    If you do the halfway and repeat, you will drop your CYA by about 75%, which is OK. Your CH will end up around 400 ppm. Remember when you fill after draining half way, you will be mixing your pool water with fill water, which has 200+ ppm CH to start.

    It is your pool. I will not say there is NO risk to having your plaster dry for a period of time. But the risk is very minimal. Especially with the cooler weather.

    If you can be flexible, wait for a day we have some clouds. Not typical, I know, but I think the forecast calls for some in the next week or so.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Sounds good.

    With adding muriatic acid, bleach and CYA. What are the correct steps to do this?

    I can put CYA in a sock in front of a hose when I'm refilling (or in front of a return after refilling). After adding bleach as the next chemical, how long do I need to wait before adding the muriatic acid? Or does it not matter? Would I need to add anything for TA?
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    You should give 15 minutes or so between bleach and muriatic. Be sure to pour them in with the pump running and at a return. That way they disperse well.

    Your TA will be high. So when you add acid, your pH drops and so does your TA. Your pH will then rise, how fast, depends on how much aeration you get. Then you add acid and your pH drops and so does your TA. When you add fill water, your TA will rise.

    So no need to focus on TA. I typically keep it around 80 or so until I have to manage CSI due to high CH. Then I drop TA to help. More on that later.

    You should do a complete water test of your fill water. Excluding CYA. Write it down and keep it near your testing kit. Is useful to remember what water chemistry you are adding. And you will add alot during most of the year due to evaporation.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Quote Originally Posted by mknauss View Post
    You should give 15 minutes or so between bleach and muriatic. Be sure to pour them in with the pump running and at a return. That way they disperse well.

    Your TA will be high. So when you add acid, your pH drops and so does your TA. Your pH will then rise, how fast, depends on how much aeration you get. Then you add acid and your pH drops and so does your TA. When you add fill water, your TA will rise.

    So no need to focus on TA. I typically keep it around 80 or so until I have to manage CSI due to high CH. Then I drop TA to help. More on that later.

    You should do a complete water test of your fill water. Excluding CYA. Write it down and keep it near your testing kit. Is useful to remember what water chemistry you are adding. And you will add alot during most of the year due to evaporation.

    Take care.
    Ok. Thank you. I have some more generic questions now about the system I inherited.

    1. How do I turn off the water to the pool? It has an autofill but how do I actually stop water going to the pool? I've attached a picture of the closest tap and it's set-up (not sure if it's for sprinklers or the pool).

    2. I attached a picture of a black drain (I opened it up and it had a pipe going down), I'm assuming this is my sewer drain? It is roughly 3 inches across.

    3. What is the random pump thingy? on the side of the pool with nothing else attached? See pics


    Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet - had to attach the pictures to imgur (please open link to see all of them)


    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    I would suspect picture 1 is your auto fill. There is a valve handle just under the backflow device. Turn the handle so it is cross ways to the pipe (horizontal). Then go to your autofill and see if that shuts it off.

    Picture 2 looks like a sewer cleanout to me.

    #3 - hmm. Part of your cleaner? Got me. Your plumbing pad is really complicated!

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Thank you for your reply again.

    This is the picture of the suspected auto fill line a little closer

    https://imgur.com/a/elT6f

    Isn't the big black taped pipe thing the autofill line? so would that valve need to be vertical since it must be on already? Sorry for the questions I really have no idea :S
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    I think so. I did not see the other handle before. Try closing the one you indicate. Turn it to vertical.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Picture 3 looks like the valving for your pop-up cleaning system. it rotates a disk that lifts a ball one (or more) at a time in a circle to indicate which popup(s) are active for a period of time. Lots of fun to work on /s. I cut mine out and bought an ultravac.
    1992 15X30 14000 Gal IG plaster, Pentair 011018 - Intelliflo VS Pump with Timer, 350 lb Sta-rite hrpb30 sand (yeah, the 32-bolt clamshell)

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    Re: Hi everyone and help please! Pool in Las Vegas. Where do I start with these resul

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiccolli View Post
    Picture 3 looks like the valving for your pop-up cleaning system. it rotates a disk that lifts a ball one (or more) at a time in a circle to indicate which popup(s) are active for a period of time. Lots of fun to work on /s. I cut mine out and bought an ultravac.
    Haha it must suck to work on. I can choose to use that or the side returns on the pool. I vacuum by hand currently ( lol


    Quote Originally Posted by mknauss View Post
    I think so. I did not see the other handle before. Try closing the one you indicate. Turn it to vertical.

    Take care.
    Thanks, that worked.

    Pool is currently draining. I read that Vegas water has 70ppm Calcium in it. So if my pool has 70ppm after the refill. Do I need to raise CH to 250ppm? Or can I just wait until evaporation and the automatic top-off gets it that way? I'll do a test of my tap water tomorrow for everything except CYA and chlorine.

    Thanks
    23,000 gallon gunite pool with integrated spa. Solar heating, water slide, diving board.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (3HP, 1.32 SF, 3.96 SFHP).
    Pentair HTR 400 Mastertemp gas heater.
    Hayward Pool Products Model #C5030 cartridge filter (525 Sq. Ft.)
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, Taylor Model K-2006C Test Kit

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