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Thread: Chlorine neutralizer??

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Hi there, great forum, I've been lurking for a long time but finally joined. Trying to revive this thread from the dead since there is some good information here, otherwise I will start a new thread if that is better.

    I had an outdoor in ground pool for 16 years until now and became pretty good at the BBB method by the end of it. I just bought a house with a 20K gallon INDOOR concrete (or gunite, not sure how I would tell the difference) pool. This pool gets pretty much no sun. We have lived there a month and I tested the TC and PH when we moved in, both were high (sorry, wrote the numbers down but lost them during the move). I've been very busy with other things around the house but finally got caught up and am testing the chemicals again. Water has been clear the entire time with the exception that in the last 2 weeks small floating clear patches have formed on the surface. The skimmer does not suck enough to pull these in, or if it does they break into too small of pieces to be filtered. I've been removing them with pantyhose put over my pool skimmer and when doing that you can see that they break into fine crystals. I'm having decent luck getting those off the surface with that method. If anyone has advice on that issue then great, but my big question is related to chemicals since I am new to an indoor pool.

    Very light bather load, but the Chlorine levels have not gone down in the month we've been here. Chlorine was so high I had to use the method of 3 parts tap water to 1 part pool water and multiplying that by 4 I would say the results are:

    (Using HTH 6 way kit)
    Total Chlorine 20
    PH 8.6
    Hardness 400

    I did not have enough CYA indicator to do that test. I have not put any chlorine or anything else in the pool (when I need to I will definitely use liquid chlorine). Please give your advice on what I should do.

    Also, it is hard water in this area, but I do have a water softener, which I "think" is hooked up to the spigot in the room where the pool is. I've already drained and added a few inches from the spigot to see if it made any difference, and none that I could tell. I can't really afford to drain the pool to "start over".

    FYI, spigot water has 0 TC and 7.6 PH. Sorry, my outdoor pool 15 miles away always gave me problems keeping enough chlorine, I'm not used to the opposite problem at all. Thanks in advance!

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Welcome to the forum.

    One issue is your test kit. It measures TC. Not FC and CC. Indoor pools build CC. There are several methods to combat this. But you need a proper test kit to manage your pool.

    As you are familiar with TFPC (no longer do we use BBB; most pools never need borax or baking soda) you know a test kit is needed.

    Once you get your test kit, post up your results and folks will provide guidance. There are a few folks with indoor pools here.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
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    Marty

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Sounds good, one question though, if I am buying a kit recommended from here, is there any reason that I would need one that has the OTO test? Seems like if they have the FC and CC tests, then I wouldn't need the OTO, or am I wrong?
    Indoor concrete pool, 15x30, 18.5K gallons, Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump, Sta-Rite 150# sand filter, Hayward H200 heater.

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    True if you do not need the pH test. That comes with it. Order the TF50. Excludes the pH and OTO tests.

    Pool School - Test Kits Compared

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    in,

    Welcome to TFP... A Great place for all your pool questions whether your "Ledge" is Grand or not....

    The two major things that consume your chlorine are the sun and bather load. So, with an indoor pool, I'm not surprised your chlorine usage is low.

    I see you listed your pH as 8.6, but pH testing is unreliable when the FC is over 10...

    As Marty recommended, get a good test kit and then post a full set of test results.

    What pump and filter do you have? What is your filter pressure when the skimmer is not sucking? Is the problem with skimming that it just does not skim the floating crystals or is the skimmer action weak all the time?

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Thanks Jim. Filter and pump info should be in my signature now. I ordered the K-2006 test kit last night. Filter pressure is at 15, skimmer sucks weakly but not enough to draw down the weir flapper that I put in so I took it back out. Honestly if I can get rid of the crystals with the weak skimmer suction I don't know how worried I should be as there is really nothing else to be skimmed and it is sucking *some* water down. I even used a drain king to blow water from the pump through the skimmer line and then back from the skimmer towards the pump. There doesn't really appear to be any blockage in the line that I can tell. Pump runs fine when valve is set to 1/2 main and 1/2 skimmer. If I move valve to full skimmer and no main it acts like it's starving for water and will start and stop pumping. Unfortunately the lines are all glued so I am going to cut them and put unions in so that I can check the lines and while I am at that I will check for any suction leaks as well (at least above ground where I can get to them, I can't get to anything underground haha).
    Indoor concrete pool, 15x30, 18.5K gallons, Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump, Sta-Rite 150# sand filter, Hayward H200 heater.

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    What is the clean pressure on your Sand Filter. Typically poor water flow is due to a dirty filter. Might need to be deep cleaned if never done. See Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

    Also -- did you get the Taylor K2006C? The C matters. The regular one has 0.75 oz reagent bottles. You will have to order refills for several of the tests immediately.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    in,

    Having a weir door is important for proper skimming. The door should be free to move up and down... if the door never comes down, the skimmer will run dry and cause the pump to loose suction. Removing the door does not solve whatever is causing the problem.

    If the door is working properly, as the water is sucked out of the skimmer, the door will open allowing more water in and then the door will come back up.. It will just continue this cycle. While not technical true, it makes it seem like the pool water is slightly higher than the skimmer, which means the water tends to flow "downhill" into the skimmer better.

    With the door off, or held down, and the valves set to all skimmer, if the pump looks like it is starving for water and the skimmer is not being sucked dry, I would be looking for a suction side air leak. The first thing I would look at is the pump basket's O-Ring. or an air leak at one of the Intake valves... It could also be a very dirty filter, but I would think the filter pressure would be much higher.

    Thanks for posting and please let us what you did to solve this problem as it might help others...

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Funny you should mention that. Frankly, I backwashed and there was no difference in pressure which didn't really surprise me too much as there is pretty much nothing in the pool to clog the filter. However, the previous owners said they had replaced the sand in the last couple of years and I took the top off just to see. It was pretty clumped together so I did try a deep clean. Even the water pressure was not breaking apart the clumps, though I could break them apart with my hands, but obviously that is a tedious process and about midnight I stopped working on it and went to bed. I will have to give that another go, the sand did not seem dirty, just clumped, could that be from calcium? This is my first concrete pool. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by mknauss View Post
    What is the clean pressure on your Sand Filter. Typically poor water flow is due to a dirty filter. Might need to be deep cleaned if never done. See Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

    Also -- did you get the Taylor K2006C? The C matters. The regular one has 0.75 oz reagent bottles. You will have to order refills for several of the tests immediately.

    Take care.
    Indoor concrete pool, 15x30, 18.5K gallons, Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump, Sta-Rite 150# sand filter, Hayward H200 heater.

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Typically the sand in a filter is clumped due to use of pool store potions like clarifier. And that would not be unusual in an indoor pool. A sand filter struggles to get the very fine particles, which you would most likely see indoors (think skin cells, dust, etc) and the use of a clarifier would be perceived to assist that. And it can, but you must be wary of how you clean up after using it.

    Still search for some suction side air leaks. That is also an explanation for low suction.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Going to work on cleaning sand filter and checking for leaks, but I received the test kit and wanted to post results:

    FC 25
    CC 1
    pH above 8 but I know this is affected by high chlorine (FWIW it took 35 drops of the acid bottle to get it down to 7.8 on the extended test)
    TA 240
    CH 350 (BTW on this test it's supposed to start out red, but it looked more pink to me)
    CYA 0

    p.s. one other thought, I think I read on this forum somewhere that FC less than 28 is safe to swim in and I know that bather use is a way to use up chlorine. We want to have a housewarming party and I think a lot of people would be in the pool so I wanted to make sure things were safe first, so should I use the party as a way to get FC down? I don't want to put people in danger or bleach clothes/hair et cetera, but I also want to be smart about spending my money as all the work on the new house has been expensive.

    Thanks!
    Indoor concrete pool, 15x30, 18.5K gallons, Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump, Sta-Rite 150# sand filter, Hayward H200 heater.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    in,

    Well... close but no cigar for you...

    An FC of 28 would be ok if you had a CYA level of 70, but with your CYA being zero, you really don't want people in your pool.

    See this chart... FC/CYA Chart

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Hydrogen Peroxide? You would need 10X the amount of chlorine you want to neutralize. So if you put 20ppm CYA in your water, lets say you want to get to 3 ppm FC. So you need to consume 22 ppm of FC. So you need to add 220 ppm of hydrogen peroxide.

    I think that would be alot. Like 43 gallons of hydrogen peroxide -- yikes. There must be a better way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I carried a decimal. I think it is 4.3 gallons of hydrogen peroxide. Still alot.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    After further review, my chemistry is a bit off. The best way to figure it is it will take as much 3% hydrogen peroxide (what you can buy in the store) to neutralize FC based on what it would take 6% bleach to get your current ppm. So to neutralize 22 ppm FC it would take 900 oz of 3% hydrogen peroxide.

    I would suggest you drain some water. I would think that might be easier. It will take a long time to reduce your FC without some form of intervention.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    I can get a gallon of 35% hydrogen peroxide for $50 on Amazon. Using your math I think I would need 77 ounces of it at 35% (quite a bit less than a gallon but I think that's the best size to buy for a deal). I will warn if my math is off I was having some beers while cleaning sand filter and watching world series. $50 is definitely cheaper than for me to drain and refill a few inches, the water here is not cheap. I can check at the store but I think $50 for a gallon is definitely cheaper than store price. That being said, if I went that route and got something so strong is there a certain way I should broadcast it into the pool? Thanks.
    Indoor concrete pool, 15x30, 18.5K gallons, Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump, Sta-Rite 150# sand filter, Hayward H200 heater.

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    I think you can get 3% for about $1 per quart at Target or Walmart. You would need 30 of them. Not sure if they would have that many.

    Sounds like it could be interesting.

    Take care.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just pour in around the pool. Run your pump. Brush, etc.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Sounds like a recon mission, I will be report back. All that aside my HVAC buddy stopped over today and confirmed that the H200 heater is not vented properly, hence why it shuts off on a hi limit switch (heater is indoors, in the basement). One problem at a time I keep saying to myself. Thanks.
    Indoor concrete pool, 15x30, 18.5K gallons, Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump, Sta-Rite 150# sand filter, Hayward H200 heater.

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Great stuff, Walmart had 3% for 88 cents per quart. They actually had 3 dozen in stock so I didn't clean them out totally. The lady of course gave me a funny loo and I told her it cheaper to buy pool chemicals here than at the pool store. She still looked at me funny considering it's Michigan and we are supposed to get snow here any day. I'm think of putting maybe 6 in at a time and letting the pump run for an hour or two, then 6 more until done? I figured I would check the FC again maybe halfway through to see how I'm doing. Sound like a good idea?
    Indoor concrete pool, 15x30, 18.5K gallons, Hayward 3/4 HP Super Pump, Sta-Rite 150# sand filter, Hayward H200 heater.

  19. Back To Top    #19
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    The baquacil oxidizer chemical is just high strength (~30%) hydrogen peroxide. If you have a pool store near you that sells baquacil products (usually under the label SoftSwim), you can get it from them. It might cost more more per unit volume but it's a heck of a lot easier to handle then dumping in bottle after bottle of 3%...
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad mknauss's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    But would not have gotten the great reaction at Walmart!!! You could have said we are bleaching all our kids hair at once!!

    I would do as you say. Sneak up on it.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
    CLICK HERE to Become a TroubleFreePool.com Supporter!!
    Marty

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