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Thread: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    We just got a new Lochinvar natural gas heater and are having it installed next week. According to code, the heater needs to be 4 feet vertical and 4 feet horizontal from a window. So our only choice for installation to be within the 4 feet spec would be within our L-shaped vinyl fence that goes around the pool equipment. According to the manual the heater is supposed to be at least 6" out from a wall or fence.

    Do I need to be concerned about the back of the heater (where the exhaust vent is) being only 6" away from the vinyl fence? My fence isn't going to melt or anything is it? The fence does have about a 6" opening at the bottom where air can pass through. In other words, the fence doesn't go all the way down to the ground. This heater has an enclosed combustion chamber and vents in the back. The vents are on the top though.

    That was another concern. The manual says to have the heater 10 feet away from an L-shaped alcove or barrier. The reason being that air can eddy and cause sooting to the heater and premature wear. I called and spoke to someone at Lochinvar and he told me that doesn't really pertain to our fence since we have the air opening at the bottom.

    Any thoughts or input would be appreciated. This is the back of the heater:
    [attachment=0:2xbziikp]LochinvarBack.jpg[/attachment:2xbziikp]
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    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    I have a Hayward heater that vents from the top. It is close to a vinyl shed. If it is a concern you could add a heat shield spaced off the fence. A piece of galvanized steel or aluminum. My issue was the wind off the shed blowing out the heater. Hence the draft hood in the photo.
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    IG 18x36 oval vinyl, Spill over spa, Northstar 2hp-2spd, 2.5" piping, S310T 500lb Sand filter, 400k gas heater, AutoPilot SWCG
    http://www.tftestkits.net/

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Thanks, Dave, I really like the idea of the galavanized steel or aluminum. I think I'll see if the vinyl fence is absorbing any heat from the heater. I just might use the steel or aluminum anyway just so I don't have to worry about it.

    That's interesting that the wind from your shed would blow the heater out.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    The vinyl coat is subject to melting with high temperatures (it is only manufactured to withstand normal temperature swings, including standing in the hot summer sun). The heat shield will have to be spaced off the fence, otherwise the vinyl will melt to the shield.

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Quote Originally Posted by bagiver2
    The vinyl coat is subject to melting with high temperatures (it is only manufactured to withstand normal temperature swings, including standing in the hot summer sun). The heat shield will have to be spaced off the fence, otherwise the vinyl will melt to the shield.
    Thanks, Bagiver2. So how would I do it, put a heat shield on a short pole or something? Also, would the vinyl be subject to melting even if it's 6 inches away from the back of the heater? The manual says 6" away from combustible materials so not sure if this is what they mean with a vinyl fence.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    4 paws, Check your manual again and see if they have two different clearance dimensions, You may be given one dimension for clearance to a brick wall etc. then another for clearance from combustible objects/walls (wooden or vinyl fences).
    The heat shield is a good idea too. Drill holes in the sheet metal then tie wire the shield to the fence.
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    I would bolt it to the fence with 1/4x20 stainless screws and 1/2" spacers. You could cover the heads with covers like these;
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    IG 18x36 oval vinyl, Spill over spa, Northstar 2hp-2spd, 2.5" piping, S310T 500lb Sand filter, 400k gas heater, AutoPilot SWCG
    http://www.tftestkits.net/

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Thanks so much for the replies everyone. This is from the manual:

    "To prevent recirculation of the
    flue products into the combustion air inlet, follow all
    instructions in this section.
    The venting areas must never be obstructed. Keep area clean
    and free of combustible and flammable materials. Maintain a
    minimum clearance of 3 inches to combustible surfaces and a
    minimum of a 3 inch clearance to the air inlet. To avoid a
    blocked air inlet or blocked flue condition, keep the outdoor cap
    air inlet, flue outlet and drain slot clear of leaves, debris, snow,
    ice, etc.
    The outdoor pool heater must not be installed in an area
    that is enclosed by walls or a fence that will block free wind
    movement around the pool heater. Free movement of wind
    around the outdoor unit is required to carry away the flue
    products and provide combustion air. The flue
    outlet/combustion air inlet cap of an outdoor pool heater
    must not be installed closer than 10 feet from an inside
    corner of an L-shaped structure. Walls or enclosed fencing
    may cause eddy currents which can recirculate the flue
    products into the combustion air inlet.
    The pool heater should be located at least 3 feet from any wall or
    vertical surface to prevent adverse wind conditions from
    affecting performance."

    So even though it says 3 inches from combustible material, I am going to have the installer do at least 6 inches. I spoke with Lochinvar this morning and he said the fence should not be an issue as far as heat, although I still want to put up a heat shield. The concern he said was having it in the L corner of the fence. Here is a drawing I made (please excuse the poor quality I think instead of where the heater is, I will have the heater where the filter is, and the filter put where the heater is. That way the heater would be closer to the open part.[attachment=0:2nig1jlt]HeaterFenceSetup.pdf[/attachment:2nig1jlt]
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    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Careful though, the filter looks a lot easier to service where it is. Will it still be easy in the corner? Plumbing, etc.
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    My heater is like 12inch away from the Fence and its a pain in the *** to get on the sided and back .I would suggest 2 feet on back and side.

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool Clown
    Careful though, the filter looks a lot easier to service where it is. Will it still be easy in the corner? Plumbing, etc.
    He completed the job on Friday. He had to re-do all the plumbing, gas line, electric, etc., but it looks great! Everything works great too. I love our new Lochinvar heater. It kicks *ss! I am going to take a pic and post here as soon as my camera battery recharges. The equipment area looks like a nuclear reactor, lol.

    The only thing left to do is to figure out what to do with the cord from the salt water chlorine generator. It can unplug from the panel (which is located on the wall of our back porch), so I have one end of the cord that I can stuff into something. The PB was going to bury the cord but I thought if we needed to service it or clean it, it would be easier with the cord accessible. But when we walk into the equipment area, the cord lays on the ground. I was thinking of getting a wiremold, and then putting my landscaping stones on top of it, but not sure how well it would work.

    http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?ID=845829&P=AM[attachment=0:3krxlk8l]Wiremold.jpg[/attachment:3krxlk8l]

    Do you know of any other options that might work?
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    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Vistal
    My heater is like 12inch away from the Fence and its a pain in the *** to get on the sided and back .I would suggest 2 feet on back and side.
    Thanks, Vistal. Unfortunately we didn't have quite that much space, but it's about 9 inches from the back of the fence. One side is completely free of any obstuctions and the other side hopefully will have enough room to service the heater. My PB said he was going to make it as easy as possible to access, especially since he'll be the one servicing the heater.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    A couple of pics:[attachment=2:d4169kb3]HeaterFrontView.jpg[/attachment:d4169kb3][attachment=1:d4169kb3]HeaterToFence.jpg[/attachment:d4169kb3][attachment=0:d4169kb3]GeneratorCord.jpg[/attachment:d4169kb3]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    looks alot better then where min sits i have 9-12inch per side (

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Move the box. mount it on your beautiful new fence! If you did, you could get power from the pump motor, or even the heater. One other thing, make sure that heater has a fireman's switch installed. It'll save your plumbing.
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    The only way that filter (or its valve) can be removed for service/replacement is with a Sawzall. (But only on what looks to be the waste pipe that is connected in back--looks like the other two have unions.) Hopefully that will not be necessary anytime soon. My pool was built that way on all the filter connections, and I cursed a lot when I had to replace the MPV. They actually put PVC cement on the threads! Now I have unions on all the filter connections. It's a DE, and I now store it and the pump inside for the winter. Not necessary, but I bet it gives me a few more years by avoiding freeze/thaw cycles.
    Current: 28,000G 18'x36' I/G AnthonySylvan Plaster; Waterway 60 sq.ft. DE Filter; 1.0hp x 1.65 SF Two-Speed (B2982) WhisperFlo; 2004-Present
    Previous: 40,000G 20'x40' I/G Koven unlined WWII salvage 5/8" marine steel; Lomart Stainless Sand Filter; 3/4hp Hayward SuperPump; 1946-2003 (managed by me from about 1964)
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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool Clown
    Move the box. mount it on your beautiful new fence! If you did, you could get power from the pump motor, or even the heater. One other thing, make sure that heater has a fireman's switch installed. It'll save your plumbing.
    That is true about moving the box, but I like it where it is now because it's under my overhang and protected from the elements. What? Build a shelter for it on the fence, you say?

    Wouldn't you know I just got a new timer and it has no fireman's switch control. So if I just turn the heater off 15 minutes before the pump goes off, that should be okay, right? I did have the PB install a check valve. Also, if the heater is in standby mode, and the timer turns all the equipment off including the heater, that shouldn't be a problem, right, since the heater wasn't going at the time of shut off? I'm just thinking if I forgot to turn off the heater before everything shuts down.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Durk
    The only way that filter (or its valve) can be removed for service/replacement is with a Sawzall. (But only on what looks to be the waste pipe that is connected in back--looks like the other two have unions.) Hopefully that will not be necessary anytime soon. My pool was built that way on all the filter connections, and I cursed a lot when I had to replace the MPV. They actually put PVC cement on the threads! Now I have unions on all the filter connections. It's a DE, and I now store it and the pump inside for the winter. Not necessary, but I bet it gives me a few more years by avoiding freeze/thaw cycles.
    Yeah, he should have put a union on that backwash pipe. It's a new filter so hopefully it won't need service anytime soon.

    We've never stored our pump in the winter, but that sounds llike a good idea, especially with how harsh our winters are. I'm really glad we finally have our equipment off the ground. Everything used to sit on dirt, including the heater. It was like that when we bought the house. It's a miracle the heater lasted as long as it did (19 years). The burner tray was all rusted out and we were always getting spiders in there.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    Quote Originally Posted by mickey4paws
    Wouldn't you know I just got a new timer and it has no fireman's switch control. So if I just turn the heater off 15 minutes before the pump goes off, that should be okay, right? I did have the PB install a check valve. Also, if the heater is in standby mode, and the timer turns all the equipment off including the heater, that shouldn't be a problem, right, since the heater wasn't going at the time of shut off? I'm just thinking if I forgot to turn off the heater before everything shuts down.
    As long as your there EVERY DAY(heating season), to turn it off...
    Note: If you have Intermatic timer(s), you can buy just the switch.
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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: Heater and Vinyl Fence Question

    I have the Intermatic 101P3:

    http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/files ... s/128.ashx

    So I can actually get a fireman's switch for it? Also, does the heater have to have a special hookup for it? How complicated is all this? It would be great to have the fireman's switch.

    Edit: Ok, just found this. Is this the right one and how hard would it be to install?

    http://www.epoolshop.com/heatercontrolf ... 4042a.aspx
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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