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Thread: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

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    Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Hi all:

    Here is my first post.

    I could write a novel on this but I will deliver the Cliff Notes version. After fighting the green algae for three weeks, I found this sight, became a TFP Supporter, ordered the TF-100 test kit, and finally, went to Sam's to buy four boxes of clorox bleach (3 jugs @ 182 fl oz each @ $7/box). I added 7-182 oz jugs over a span of four days. I had previously added (per Leslie's "experts") 12 fl oz of copper algaecide over a two day period. Water is now cloudy and blue with no green algae insight! My parameters are:

    pH - 7.2
    TA - 250
    FC - 22.5
    TC - 23.5
    CH - 300
    CYA - >100 (I saw posts of CYA with actual numbers, but I cannot read above 100)

    So over four weeks, I was able to sloooowly turn the green to blue but is cloudy, i.e., cannot see the floor even at the three feet depth...but the water is blue!!!

    Now, I would like to know what my next step or steps should be. I have an idea due to the high CYA reading, but I need some guidance here. Please guide me, thank you.
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Welcome to TFP

    You have been busy reading and learning!

    Yup, you already know that your CYA is too high and doing the drain/refill dance to lower the CYA to around 50-ish is in your immediate future.

    You have 1 ppm CC and should shock your pool. See Pool School. But, I'd lower the CYA first so that it doesn't cost a gazillion dollars in bleach

    Your TA. Have you tested you fill water? When you re-test, try wiping the dropper with a damp cloth between drops.
    (Sometimes there is an issue with static that the can be corrected.)

    Congrats on purchasing the TF100 kit!

    Very nice first post
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    Welcome to TFP

    You have been busy reading and learning!

    Yup, you already know that your CYA is too high and doing the drain/refill dance to lower the CYA to around 50-ish is in your immediate future.

    You have 1 ppm CC and should shock your pool. See Pool School. But, I'd lower the CYA first so that it doesn't cost a gazillion dollars in bleach

    Your TA. Have you tested you fill water? When you re-test, try wiping the dropper with a damp cloth between drops.
    (Sometimes there is an issue with static that the can be corrected.)

    Congrats on purchasing the TF100 kit!

    Very nice first post
    Thanks for replying quickly!

    Just curious, do you know why I have seen posts where there are CYAs that actually have numbers read over 100, e.g., 125? Perhaps a different test kit than TF-100?

    I read about the "issue with static" but did not fully understand what is meant by that? Is that static electricity??? Have I tested my fill water...again I am corn-fused? What is meant by that? However, I do understand about wiping the dropper between drops

    Thank you for the compliment on my 1st post.
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Hi...some folks use the "dilution" method to test higher than 100, some like to give an esimate ("well, I didn't reach the 100 line and I can't see the dot so it must be 125"), some get their incredibly precise reading from a pool store (usually wrong BTW.)

    It is unfortunate that the vial only goes up to 100, because often the level is actually higher. What happens is either you drain/refill partially, test again, it's still 100 or you do the dilution method, come up with 80, multiply by 2, your level is 160, KWIM?

    So you can try that if you want but either way, a series of partial drains is in your future.

    Yes, good ole shock your brother after shuffling your feet on the carpet static eletricity.
    The static builds up and the drops that come out aren't uniform, and it ends up causing the TA result to read higher than it really is. Wiping it in between usually corrects the problem.

    Your fill water for your pool, did it come from your hose? That's the "tap" water, test it to see if its high in TA.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Very nice first post

    The ladies are taking good care of you , so I'll just confine this post to "WELCOME"
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Thank you one and all, Butterfly, FPM and waste, for helping me by giving me some guidance here. It is Saturday and that means time to work on draining the pool and cutting the grass, and...

    I drained the pool so that 12" water level in the shallow end (3 feet) remains. I am filling the pool as I type and the filter is running with the returns splashing the water. I will take a sample of my fill water to see what that looks like and post that information. After the water is at the correct fill level I will take my first reading. Being in the Southwest, my water bill is going to cost a fortune...

    The last time I drained and filled the pool was about three weeks ago...it was green and I thought no big deal. I have my yellow out, soda ash, gobs of bags of shock (Chloro-brite) and of course my handy dandy threesome (2 frogs and a duck) puck floating chlorinators. I went down hill from there. After three weeks, not only did I still have green algae, I went full circle. I had almost the exact readings back when I started per Leslie's...then I found this site! Algae was gone, CYA was through the roof, water blue but cloudy...nonetheless, I was making progress. Last night I vacuumed to waste what I could see at the bottom. This morning I saw that I did a pretty good job, did not miss much of the residue at the bottom. Water level is now about 1.5 feet from the shallow end floor and slowly rising. Water looks blue! The time is 3:52 PM MT. I need to take a shower and go to dinner to eat some great Italian food along with my wife's family.

    TTFN,

    Bill
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Hi, Bill,

    Tomorrow AM, (assuming you didn't drink too much Chianti with your meal ) post up a full set of test results and tell us the appearance of your water. With those numbers, we can all chip in and help get your pool crystal clear and keep it there.

    If, in fact, the Chianti did go down smoothly, we all understand and we'll plan on seeing your first post around 2:00pm your time!!
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Hi, Bill,

    Tomorrow AM, (assuming you didn't drink too much Chianti with your meal ) post up a full set of test results and tell us the appearance of your water. With those numbers, we can all chip in and help get your pool crystal clear and keep it there.

    If, in fact, the Chianti did go down smoothly, we all understand and we'll plan on seeing your first post around 2:00pm your time!!
    Thanks Dave,

    I will try and behave a little tonight because I am with my in-laws, you know, so Bill will be a good boy tonight...OK, perhaps one glass of wine. I will post as soon as I can tomorrow morning...with coffee in hand.
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Sunday morning test at 9:00 MT

    Pool ---------------- Fill
    FC - 3.5 ------------ 1.5
    CC - 0.5 ------------ 0.5
    TC - 4.0 ------------ 2.0
    pH - 7.5 ------------ 7.2
    TA - 180 ----------- 140
    CH - 200 ----------- 160
    CYA - 100+ (~125) - < 20 (probably 0)

    I was disappointed to see that the CYA was so high , but I guess that is what I get for previously loading up the floating chlorinators per the "pool experts" at Leslie's...oh well. I see that the CC is at .5 so I assume that I do not have to shock it immediately although my FC is a little low. I would rather not have to drain my pool again in this short of a period...so far I did it twice. So lets assume that draining the pool is the last option, should I add some of my Clorox regular scent bleach? How soon after would I be able to swim? Thank you...

    Bill
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    If I were you, I'd bring it up to the max of your range for your CYA level. You should be able to swim within 30 minutes. Try not to let it get below your MIN of your range for your CYA, ever, and you should be fine.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    1. Putting in bleach is no different than any other form of chlorine.....you can swim immediately.

    2. Yeah, with that high CYA, you need to run your FC up in the 6-9ppm level.....all the time. Use the pool calculator in my sig to tell you just how much bleach to add.

    3. The high CYA will cause more inconveniences and issues. Sooner or later, you need to get it to 60 or below. That's a hard bullet to bite but it is a difficult battle to try to work around it.

    4. 9:00AM testing is very good after a night out on the town.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    1. Putting in bleach is no different than any other form of chlorine.....you can swim immediately.

    2. Yeah, with that high CYA, you need to run your FC up in the 6-9ppm level.....all the time. Use the pool calculator in my sig to tell you just how much bleach to add.

    3. The high CYA will cause more inconveniences and issues. Sooner or later, you need to get it to 60 or below. That's a hard bullet to bite but it is a difficult battle to try to work around it.

    4. 9:00AM testing is very good after a night out on the town.
    I added the bleach per the Pool calculator (I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I used the pool calculator). When you stated that there will be more inconveniences and issues, would you provide examples so I can have a heads up? Since I can swim immediately, I will hold off on the draining of the pool and monitor frequently.

    Yeah, I was a good boy last night. Had the standard Lasagna with one glass of wine...it was some good stuff! Now I need to work off the calories by doing a little swimming since the pool is almost crystal clear and "swimable"!.
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    The Pool Calculator shows (for CYA of 100) FC of 8 minimum and 13 target.

    Be sure you keep it above the minimum at all times.

    Usually, we recommend a 30 minute wait to swim after adding chems. Just to be on the safe side.

    As Dave said, you will have to bite the bullet sooner or later and lower the CYA.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    The Pool Calculator shows (for CYA of 100) FC of 8 minimum and 13 target.

    Be sure you keep it above the minimum at all times.

    Usually, we recommend a 30 minute wait to swim after adding chems. Just to be on the safe side.

    As Dave said, you will have to bite the bullet sooner or later and lower the CYA.
    Will do on all counts mentioned in your post, thank you.
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    The inconvenience is in needing to keep your chlorine level so high and if you let it get away from you the higher shock level. It's much more important to keep your levels above the minimum for your CYA and dose it probably daily with additional chlorine. It's really not that bad, as long as you are aware of it and keep up with it.

    El Paso is not as arid as Phoenix, but I notice it doesn't have terribly high humidity, so with evaporation, backwash, splash out and resulting water replacement, your CYA might come down fairly nicely in a month or so. Here, in Phoenix, during the summer, we can lose enough water in a month to have our CYA go down 10 to 20 ppm. When it does, you can keep your levels lower, according to the CYA chart. Also, when it is lower, you can use the luxury of using Tabs if you are going to be away for a week or so.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by Buggsw
    The inconvenience is in needing to keep your chlorine level so high and if you let it get away from you the higher shock level. It's much more important to keep your levels above the minimum for your CYA and dose it probably daily with additional chlorine. It's really not that bad, as long as you are aware of it and keep up with it.

    El Paso is not as arid as Phoenix, but I notice it doesn't have terribly high humidity, so with evaporation, backwash, splash out and resulting water replacement, your CYA might come down fairly nicely in a month or so. Here, in Phoenix, during the summer, we can lose enough water in a month to have our CYA go down 10 to 20 ppm. When it does, you can keep your levels lower, according to the CYA chart. Also, when it is lower, you can use the luxury of using Tabs if you are going to be away for a week or so.
    Hi Buggs:

    Understood on the inconvenience and the FC level associated with the CYA level...

    How often do you check your CYA level since it goes so low? How often do you restock the R-0013 reagent and where do you get it from?

    Thanks in advance,

    Bill
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    The CYA should stay very stable in your pool. Testing and adjusting in the spring startup and then once or twice more during the season should do it.

    The reagent is available directly from Taylor, some local pool stores carry it, and TFTestkits sells it online.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by wmorton1
    Quote Originally Posted by Buggsw
    The inconvenience is in needing to keep your chlorine level so high and if you let it get away from you the higher shock level. It's much more important to keep your levels above the minimum for your CYA and dose it probably daily with additional chlorine. It's really not that bad, as long as you are aware of it and keep up with it.

    El Paso is not as arid as Phoenix, but I notice it doesn't have terribly high humidity, so with evaporation, backwash, splash out and resulting water replacement, your CYA might come down fairly nicely in a month or so. Here, in Phoenix, during the summer, we can lose enough water in a month to have our CYA go down 10 to 20 ppm. When it does, you can keep your levels lower, according to the CYA chart. Also, when it is lower, you can use the luxury of using Tabs if you are going to be away for a week or so.
    Hi Buggs:

    Understood on the inconvenience and the FC level associated with the CYA level...

    How often do you check your CYA level since it goes so low? How often do you restock the R-0013 reagent and where do you get it from?

    Thanks in advance,

    Bill
    I check it once per month in the summer. To me summer means May - September. I don't even check my CYA the rest of the year. The temperature cools, there is less evaporation and the CYA stays very stable during the rest of the year. I purchase my kits and refills from duraleigh's website. It's the best deal. Also, I utilize Leslie's to double check my CYA readings. I happen to have a very good Leslie's nearby and they use good products to test and I've not had a problem.
    The pool store that I purchase my 12% liquid chlorine from - I wouldn't trust ever to test my water. Sounds odd, but it's true.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by wmorton1
    I have my yellow out, soda ash, gobs of bags of shock (Chloro-brite) and of course my handy dandy threesome (2 frogs and a duck) puck floating chlorinators. I went down hill from there.
    The Chlor-brite is dichlor and the pucks are trichlor; both of these are contributing to the CYA problem. If you hadn't figured that out already.

    If you really want to know your CYA level and you're willing to burn more R-0013, you can test using a sample that's 1/2 pool water 1/2 tap water, and then double whatever the reading is. But if you're not planning to replace water again soon, it's probably not worth doing.

    Some people manage very high CYA levels by supplementing the bleach with "polyquat 60" algaecide (the only decent kind, according to several experts here). The actual chemical ingredient name will be something like poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene] dichloride 60%. If it's less than 60% then it has been diluted to boost profits but you take what you can get. This is a preventative, to keep algae from getting started; it won't really help kill off algae that has gotten a foothold.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Re: Slooooowly I turn, step by step...

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    Quote Originally Posted by wmorton1
    I have my yellow out, soda ash, gobs of bags of shock (Chloro-brite) and of course my handy dandy threesome (2 frogs and a duck) puck floating chlorinators. I went down hill from there.
    The Chlor-brite is dichlor and the pucks are trichlor; both of these are contributing to the CYA problem. If you hadn't figured that out already.

    If you really want to know your CYA level and you're willing to burn more R-0013, you can test using a sample that's 1/2 pool water 1/2 tap water, and then double whatever the reading is. But if you're not planning to replace water again soon, it's probably not worth doing.

    Some people manage very high CYA levels by supplementing the bleach with "polyquat 60" algaecide (the only decent kind, according to several experts here). The actual chemical ingredient name will be something like poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene] dichloride 60%. If it's less than 60% then it has been diluted to boost profits but you take what you can get. This is a preventative, to keep algae from getting started; it won't really help kill off algae that has gotten a foothold.
    --paulr
    Hi PaulR:
    Thanks for the feedback. I assume that the determination of the CYA level that you mentioned is the dilution method, right? If so I was wondering about how to do that, thank you.

    I currently have a FC of 4.5 and added some more bleach to bring the FC up to 8. I placed my pucks and floating chlorinators in a bucket and closed the top..waiting for the proper time to use it again. I currently have an algaecide preventer from Leslie's pool that I was thinking of using. So far that green algae is visible...just blue almost clear water.

    Bill
    14,000 gallons; Sand filter; IG; Vinyl; Pump size and filter = TBD

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