What would you do differently, if you could?

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atlantapoolgirl

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Jun 30, 2009
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Hi Everyone, three questions:

I am getting ready to start my pool build in Atlanta next week and wanted to confirm a few things, you all are great experts.

Based on the design (see below) I've received feedback from friends and others on this site to add another skimmer and 3 more returns.

Question 1) should I also add another pump for the Spa and Bubblers? The PB told me that I would use the same pump but I just couldn't run the Spa and Bubblers at the same time.

Question 2) since many of you have already completed your pools, I'm interested to know what you would have done differently if you could - so some friendly advice that I should consider before they start digging.

Question 3) I'm not sure about the Flagstone coping - does anyone have a recommendation that is about the same price?

Thanks much!

3-D images are on this site: http://www.backyardtracks.net

SPECS:
Size, 16'5" x 32'
Shape, Irreg Freeform
Approximate Sq Ft of Pool, 426 Sq Ft
Approximate Perimeter of Pool, 84'
Depth of Pool, 3' - 6'
Skimmer(s), 1
Pump Size, Pentair Intelliflow 4x160
Filter, Pentair Quad 60 DE
Pentair Pool & Spa Controller, EasyTouch ICP (Indoor Control Panel) for 8 circuit systems, Built in Timing, Control & Freeze Protection, EasyTouch Wireless Controller for 8 circuit system
Salt Chlorinator, Pentair IntelliChlor Salt Chlorinator
Pool & Spa Heater, Pentiar MasterTemp 400k BTU Natural Gas Heater, Sufficient gas line from gas meter
Pool Returns, 3
Electronic Ignition Natural Gas Heater, 1
Pool Cleaner, Pentair Legend Platinum, Pentair Booster Pump for cleaner
Bubblers, 2 Foam Jets in Tanning Self with actuator to remote
Coping, 136 linear feet of Oklahoma Flagstone
Plaster, Pebble-Tec, Blue Granite
6" Waterline Tile, NPT Pool Tile - Sierra Mountain Azule: SMS Azule
Decking, 911 sq ft - Mortex Kool Deck – Color TBD

Pool to also include:
Shot-crete - 4000 PSI
Steel Rebar Basket Tied On 12" Centers - 6" Centers Over 6' In Depth
1 - White Pool Lights, Pentair Amerlite White 500w Pool Light
1 Set Of Entry Steps, Tanning Shelf, 2 Benches in deep end
Plumbing and Permits, electrical
Maintenance Equipment; Telescoping Pole, Brush, Leaf Net and Test Kit

Spa Specfications:
7' Raised Spa with Overflow into pool
6 Spa Jets Waterway Adjustable
2 Main Drains
1.5 HP Air Blower, Polaris QT Spa Blower
1 - 100 Watt Spa Light
Tile To Match Pool
 
Run min. of 2" piping to every thing. I have Kool deck and like the texture and feel. That being said the dirt and sand lays in the crevises. Takes a little work cleaning it, hose or power washer. The Kool deck chips up in spots, around the edge. If your going to have a safety cover installed the deck will chip at all the anchor points.
My plumbing looks very neat, but the valves and pump are connected with couplers and no pipe in between. This will make it very difficult to change or replace things down the road.
 

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The expansion joint between the brick coping and the deck needs to be caulked. Many pool builders do not provide caulking as they want the concrete to settle for a winter season, they instead put a foam material in the expansion joint. This will allow water to get into the joint and potentially freeze with cracking if you live in the north. I caulked mine recently and it cost $800, so ask the bulider up front

I was also going to recommend a variable speed pump-and it looks like you have the best on the market!!! So figure out min flow for the SWG and run the pool at that flow to save electric

Lastly, invest in a good quality SOLID pool cover for your pool during the winter. Your pool builder may be able to get a a good fitting cover at a reasonable cost. Solid covers of quality may cost you $2000 but they are a great investment. Solid keeps the rain water out as well as dirt and also the sun. I open my pool to crystal clear water every year, where as my neighbor with a mesh cover, always has green as well as dirt and leaves
 
I have the Pentair QT blower you are looking at and wish I had one of the blowers by AirSupply instead as it is still too noisy.

Put a return over the most shallow step to help keep it clean and circulate the water. Add an xtra return in the deep end.

For the deck, have them Seal the expansion joints against water with a concrete caulking product like Sikaseal.

If it was my pool I would try the new LED lighting, but haven't personally used it.

Good luck. We look forward to lots of pics.
 
I would second the LED lighting... if for nothing else the power savings and color change ability.

There is a third choice in covers... the one in between mesh and solid... I have been considering, but have not heard any feedback from anyone hwo has used one... lighter weight than solid, cheaper than solid, but allows water to drain through while keep all sunlight out, so supposedly no pump necessary on top of the colver as with solid. Like I said, my only experience has been PB marketing at this point. Maybe someone else on here can provide more info about these covers.
 
My pool has natural rock that extends down into the pool as coping (I guess that is the term for it). It is a magnet for algae. No matter what I do, there is always a green tint on the part of the rocks just above the water, where it gets wet when the pool is in use. No amount of scrubbing ca get rid of it all. And the waterfall seems to be made of sandstone which is slowly, or not so slowly, deteriorating. I find sand below it all the time and I figure it will be leaking if it is not already. Since the waterfall faces SW, it gets blazingly hot and when it runs, which it must to keep it algae free, it picks up a lot of heat. So, I run it very early in the morning and rather late at night so as to not add too evaporation losses too much -- we are under water restrictions adn I feel guilty when I need to add to the pool. With the irregular rocks, I don't think that a pool cover is a real possiblity for me. So, to some investigating of what your rocks will do as coping.
 
This has been really helpful - I have been pulling together my list of changes for the PB. Hopefully we'll sync up today or tomorrow.

anonapersona, I was going to do a rock waterfall but I took it out for the fear of the same problems you are having. Do you think I'll have problems with the flagstone coping as well? If I change it what do you recommend?

I'm really not sure about the coping and what would be comparable in the same price range. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks again everyone!
 

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atlantapoolgirl said:
This has been really helpful - I have been pulling together my list of changes for the PB. Hopefully we'll sync up today or tomorrow.

anonapersona, I was going to do a rock waterfall but I took it out for the fear of the same problems you are having. Do you think I'll have problems with the flagstone coping as well? If I change it what do you recommend?

I'm really not sure about the coping and what would be comparable in the same price range. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks again everyone!
Click to expand...

Well, know that the waterfall is often someone's favorite part of the pool. You might not have my evaporation issues. If the waterfall did not hold so much water when off, but was dry when off, it might not be an algae problem. Depending on your climate, you may want to use a waterfall to add heat or chilling to the pool by running it when ambient temperatures are favorable. And, finally, it is a great way to aerate a pool. And I do love watching the birds that come to drink and bathe in the top pool of water. The stupid little dove even comes over while we are in the pool, the rest of the birds are more careful.

Our neighbor has a much smaller waterfall and seems to run it all the time. It is in shade mostly so it is a totally different issue, I guess. My waterfall is 15' or 16' wide and maybe 4' tall with 3 levels of spills and 4 separate paths by the time it reaches pool level. It is beautiful and looks great from inside the house when running, with little lights in the spillovers. I just worry about it's durability, from my fish pond days I know that the waterfall was always the most likely place to have a water leak.

So, don't just eliminate the waterfall, but do consider if there are smart ways to include it. Durable rock would be the first thing. Sandstone is not correct, IMO. Minimzing standing water in it might be another, except maybe one for the birds if you want them.

I really don't know much about rock, so you need to wait on some one who does around here.

Anona, still a novice
 
Things I like:
Pavers - some have settled a bit, bit correcting that is simple compared to cracked concrete. The pavers do get very hot though.
Sun shelf - great for little kids
Umbrella hole - great on super sunny days
Slide - need I say more
Two 500w pool lights - lights up the pool very well, could not be done with one.
Pebble sheen
two skimmers
Two deep end swim outs - one one each side of the pool.

Things I may have changed
Stamped concrete coping has taken a beating - not sure how anything else would have help up though.

Other:
No spa - and I don't regret it.
I have only 2 returns, and while they were building it, I though that would have been inadequate, but they push out a super strong stream, and circulation is great.
Would have listed the heat pump as the likes, but you'll need a gas heater for the spa.
 
I second crabboy's advice and suggest a second light. We have an L-shape pool and our builder assured us that one light in the deep end would be enough, because the light would "bouce off" the opposing wall and into the other side. Not true at all. :x Our pool is pretty dimly lit on the shallow end, which is where the steps are. I wish we had added a second light. I think you will have dark spots as well, based on your drawings.
 
Thanks! I've been collecting feedback from friends and this forum so I'm going to propose a few changes to the PB on Monday. Hopefully he won't kill me with fees to change before the build. I think he already has A LOT of margin built into his proposal. :)

1. Add another skimmer and 3 returns
• A total of 2 skimmers and 6 returns. M ore returns=more uniform circulation = better water quality especially in the hot south

2. Confirm Piping
• Verify that everything will be a minimum of 2" piping – I remember asking this and thought this was a standard but would like confirmation.

3. Expansion Joint
• Make sure there is an expansion joint between the deck and the flagstone. A real one, not one where they just groove the deck with the tool.
• The expansion joint between the brick coping and the deck needs to be caulked.
• If not, this will allow water to get into the joints and potentially freeze with cracking.

4. EasyTouch ICP -> Upgrade Light in Pool
• Since we have an EasyTouch Wireless Controller, dump the EasyTouch ICP and instead get a IntelliBrite light. Not sure why we would need both.

5. Light in Spa
• Add a light in the Spa

6. Spa Spillover and Pump
• Make the spillover a bit bigger – it’s too small
• Add a booster pump so we can run water features with the spa going.

7. Bench
• Add another small bench on the other side of the Spa

8. Pebble-Tec/Sheen
• Confirm color choice and that this is pebble-sheen: “Blue Granite”

9. Reduce new decking by 150 sq ft,.
• Reduce decking behind the Spa and cut in other areas to make shaped planters this will soften the look since there is so much “hard scape”.

10. Prep for the future
• Stub out a water line, drain for sink, and electrical conduit. When the time comes we’ll be ready for a little outdoor kitchen and we can move the gasline.
 
Be sure and have your lights in the pool facing away from the house. I didn't, and the pool looks much better if you're standing behind the light.
 
I would recommend having each skimmer and main drain on their own lines. It's also best to have each return on it's own line. This is better because it's far easier to handle leaks in the future, less expensive to operate due to lower head losses and offers more precise control of flow. Most PB's, at least in our area, do not run the plumbing like this because it costs more.

I had my PB install six returns but compromised and only ran three 2.5" lines back to the pad. I also had him use separate 3" lines for each skimmer and main drains. For these upgrades I only had to pay an extra $250 or $300.
 
* Take plenty of pictures... especially of the underground piping.
When taking pictures of the underground piping, make sure you include a point of reference (pool wall, skimmer, landmark, etc)

* Home run all piping back to the equipment pad.

-Ken-
 

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