Uneven Pool & Tiling Question

[PicardoAb]

I am in the process of having a pool installed and some aspects of the install have me concerned.

This is a 34' fiberglass pool. Once the concrete was poured, it became clear that the waterline is off by up to two inches from the lowest point to the highest. While this is not ideal, more concerning is how the concrete was poured to account for this. Basically, below the smoothed curve coping of the concrete pool, an additional 1.5 to 2inches of rough aggregate which was poured in order to ensure that the concrete deck was level. This 1.5-2 inches is present for probably 85% of the edging of the pool.

The pool installer says that that rough concrete and the lack of 'level-ness' will not be an issue because they will just tile over the concrete as well as the fiberglass. I question this only because I understood the tile to be installed directly on the fiberglass and not on the concrete. Additionally, it seems like the tile will not be laid on a flat surface (especially given the exposed aggregate). And I feel that you'd use a different adhesive on concrete as opposed to fiberglass.

I worry that they'll install the tile and it will look reasonable. But 6 months from now, they will all pop off.

Of course, I know nothing about pools or concrete or tiling. So, maybe I should just trust the experts. But, as a double-check, i thought I'd post here to get a third party perspective. Thanks so much for any advice!

 

[kimkats]

Are you saying the water in the pool is showing the pool it's self is out of level? It is hard to really tell from the pics. The water in the pool should be the same all the way around the pool. THIS is the biggest worry to me.

As for the concrete it does need to be smooth for the tile. Ask the ph how he is going to smooth it out without making a mess in the water.

When a plaster pool is done the waterline tile is placed on the concrete before the plaster is put on so there is not worries there.

 

[PicardoAb]

Thanks so much for the response kimkats - I'm increasingly feeling sick about this! One point of clarity - this isn't a concrete pool, its fiberglass. My apologies if I didn't describe the situation clearly in my first post.

But yes, the pool itself is out of level. So, in some places, the waterline is 2 inches higher relative to the top of the fiberglass shell than other places. So, this was installed unevenly. See additional pictures that i just attached.

But, basically the concrete coping (hope I'm using the right terminology) varies in height. In some places, it's 5 inches and in some places it's 3 inches. I'm told that this variation in height was required due to the uneveness of the fiberglass pool shell. So, in the pictures, you can see that the coping has a nice smooth rounded top... and then below it is an additional two inches of really rough concrete. It's this additional two inches of concrete that has me concerned because it looks awful.

The pool builder is telling us not to worry about this. He is saying that tile will be installed over both the fiberglass shell and the rough part of the concrete coping. This seems odd to me and I'm hoping to validate this approach.

From what I read, the appropriate solution here is to tear out the pool deck and reset the fiberglass pool. I suspect that the pb will fight this. All but $2,000 has been paid to him so we're relying 100% on their good will to correct this situation.

 

[kimkats]

That is wrong. There is no two ways about it. The pool was installed uneven. What you have done about it is the B.I.G. question. I am hoping there is no void under the pool shell on the higher end.

Do you have pics of the ground before the pool was put in? Did they measure it? How did the "finish" the bottom before putting the pool in?

Lets start there and go forward.

 

[PicardoAb]

Unfortunately, I don't have pictures of what you're describing and I have no idea how they measured / finished the bottom of the pool. Should have been more inquisitive in retrospect.

I spoke with the pb this morning and it was a tense conversation. He assured me that 2-3 inches out of level was standard. And that the tiles could be installed halfway on the concrete and halfway on the fiberglass. He said that this is how every pool he installs is done.

I then spoke with Triology pools, the manufacturer. Their customer service rep confirmed that one inch was industry standard and that 2" out of level was a concern. They directed me to the account rep that sold the pool to the pb but I only got his voicemail. We'll see how that conversation goes...

 

[PicardoAb]

My wife was actually able to find one picture of the install. Its not great quality. View attachment 69279

 

[Winger 03]

Re: Uneven Pool & Tiling Question

Yeah, that is a potential problem. 1" might be industry standard but most installers go for much less than that. At 2+" they seemingly just dug the hole and plopped it in. Tile will not really "fix" it, just make it slightly less noticeable. The only true fix it to rip out the concrete and reset the pool properly.

The builder will tell you whatever they want to get away from the job. You are going to be the one to look at it for years to come. Nice to see that Trilogy is at least getting involved a little. Interested to see what they have to say.

 

[domct203]

So sorry to hear of your PB issues.

Another thing to consider is, if being beyond the 'industry standard' of 1" out of level would affect any potential warranty claims in the future. Would the manufacturer say 'improper install' and leave you on your own with the PB?

I'm curious to see what comes of this, I'll be following the thread.

 

[PicardoAb]

That's a good point Dom. I'll be sure to include that in my conversation with the rep. Will let you know how that goes.

 

[kimkats]

I would have the Pool manf. talk to the PB............who is going to be the one that has to replace the pool when it comes time??? It might be time to lawyer up as well

Make sure to not name names or say too much else online to protect yourself. I am sorry this happened to you.

 

[PicardoAb]

I'm starting to feel the same way kinkats. Luckily my wife is a lawyer. Would hate to go that route but, thus far, there has been a lack of cooperation on the part of the pb. Eventually that may be our only option.

I like your plan though - hopefully the pool manufacturer can talk some sense into the pb. Obviously, the manufacturer is conflicted given that they sell a bunch of pools to this guy each year. But he can't be too happy if this guy is installing the pools in a way that puts them structurally at risk.

 

[Danimal92Sport]

To play devil's advocate; what is wrong with 2" out of level? If the pool is properly supported, is it something the manufacturer would really worry about aside from it being shoddy workmanship by one of their distributors/installers?

Dan

 

[Brianf60]

I would be very concerned. If the pb is willing to move forward with the shell that far out of level what else may he/she have overlooked. I built my own pool (steel/ vinyl) and it is level to within 1/8" I knew if I didn't take the time to get it level it would bother me me forever. I hope this works out for you. Please keep us posted.

 

[Danimal92Sport]

I would be very concerned. If the pb is willing to move forward with the shell that far out of level what else may he/she have overlooked. I built my own pool (steel/ vinyl) and it is level to within 1/8" I knew if I didn't take the time to get it level it would bother me me forever. I hope this works out for you. Please keep us posted.

I don't disagree, but that's certainly not grounds for asking them to redo the entire installation. The 2" thing was pretty much set in stone (see what I did there?) as soon as they backfilled and poured a deck above it.

Dan

 

[PicardoAb]

So, my philosophy at this point is, as long as the pool warranty is valid then I'm comfortable leaving the pool as-is. As I mentioned, I left a voicemail message with Trilogy yesterday to determine whether or not the uneven installation would invalidate the warranty. I never heard back but they must be working this behind the scenes. I say this because the two owners of the pool installation company showed up at our front door this morning. This was shocking since, prior to today, they refused to meet with me at all.

Their tone had changed dramatically. Yesterday the owner was literally yelling at me on the phone for questioning the install. But the manufacturer must have pressured them because today they apologized for their unprofessional behavior during the phone call and also conceded that the industry standard is 1" (not 2" to 3" as they previously suggested). They, none-the-less, said that this can be fixed with tile and nothing more. They were being very friendly and clearly trying to smooth things over.

We said that, so long as the installation didn't invalidate the warranty, we were okay with the pool. We asked for them to provide documentation from the manufacturer to this effect. They agreed and so I'm feeling cautiously optimistic.

I really hope that this resolves itself without having to rip out the pool. But at the end of the day, I just want to have the confidence that the unevenness of the pool doesn't cause unanticipated pressure on the fiberglass shell causing it to crack 5 years down the line. Maybe I'm over-reacting, but not knowing anything about pools, so who knows. I just need to trust the experts which, in this case, is the manufacturer.

But I feel like things are back on a positive track. Hoping this translates to getting a better night's sleep!

Open to feedback if anyone feels that I'm acting too agreeably or too difficult. I really appreciate all the comments so far.

 

[kimkats]

I understand what you are feeling and thinking. It sounds like you have hope of the warranty being honored! I like that you are getting it in writing. Good move!

Funny how their tone changed............Wish I could have heard the phone call from the pool makers! :slidehalo:

Kim

 

[PicardoAb]

Just received a call from Viking pools. They're actually sending somebody out on a two hour trip to our house. This individual will enter the pool and tap on the bottom and sides to see if he can hear and hollow sounds. If not, he can confirm that the pool is structurally sound and will provide some sort of documentation stating as much. From my perspective, this is a huge level of customer service and its greatly appreciated.

 

[kimkats]

That IS huge! Now.........me being me...........will you be able to be there to watch and listen with them?

Kim

 

[PicardoAb]

Just to close out this post - the individual from trilogy arrived at my home and did a thorough examination. I was there with him and was impressed with the extent of the review that he gave it. He felt comfortable with drafting an agreement documenting that the warranty of the pool is valid given the installation. So, i feel like i'm good to move on past all of this.

Thanks for the responses. This forum was a great resource for me.

 

[kimkats]

Thank you for the follow up.

I hope you stick around and learn how to manage your pool water using our methods! They are SO easy and your pool will always sparkle!

Kim