Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Hello!!! posted on intro area... Here's what we have so far:

    just had pool installed last Sat. Started pool up with BioGuard Smart Sticks small box that came with pool after 30 min talk with pool store on what to do as the box was not the same stuff as the book said

    Initially added 2 bags shock, full bottle of the 28/10 algaecide and 2 smart sticks per pool store instruction.

    Our pool is in full sun nearly all day... at first we ran pump all the time but sticker shock hit hubby at the rate of 1 kW per hour so he got a good manual timer and put it on that. Last night was the only time since Sat that we did not have the pump on continuously. Around 7pm he turned it off while DD played vigorously in the water. The pump came on at 9pm so water was only still for about an hour. It ran until 3am then was off until 9am then ran until 3pm and was off again until I had him turn it on tonight at 8pm for a chemical add I will address later in this post. There is about 2/3 of each of the 2 smart sticks left in the basket as of now.

    Went today for first water test, here's the numbers we got:

    Temp: 70 deg
    Sat Idx: -0.8 (ideal: -0.3 to +0.3)
    TDS: 200 (ideal: <2500)
    CYA: 0 (ideal: 30-200) Wow, that's a big range... is it better to be high or low?
    TChlorine: 0 (ideal: 1-3)
    FC: 0 (ideal: 1-3)
    pH: 7.4 (ideal: 7.4-7.6)
    T Alk: 80 (no range given)
    Adj T Alk: 80 (ideal: 125-150)
    THardness: 78 (ideal: 175-225)
    Optimizer+: not tested
    Cloudy: none
    Staining: none
    Quat: not tested (ideal: 4-6)
    Green Algae: none
    Black Algae: none
    Mustard Algae: no
    Slime/Mold: no

    They told me to do the following:
    --Add 12 lbs Balance Pak 100 for Alkalinity directly to the pool (water was cloudy after we added it)
    --at least 45 mins later Add 3# stabilizer very slowly through the filter (the print out said 6# but the guy sold me and told me only to add 3# and run filter for at least 24 hours**Hence no timer tonight or tomorrow) (water was still cloudy after adding this too)
    --at least 45 mins later add 7# Balance Pak 300 for Hardness directly to pool (I will do this tomorrow as I added shock tonight because the TC/FC were 0 and DD will want to swim tomorrow)
    --at least 45 mins later add 2 bags Burn Out Extreme through the filter (I did this 45 mins after the stabilizer tonight instead of after the Hardness increaser) Pool had returned to clear when I went out to add shock.

    Then the print out tells me to maintain 1-3ppm Chlorine with Silk Tabs (no amount given) and 2 bags of Smart Shock weekly maintaining 1-4ppm residual.

    PHEW!!! ok... I am ready for BBB Freedom from Pool Store Sticker Shock We'll take any advice you all can muster.
    Thanks so much for ALL your help in advance!
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    924

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Hi and welcome!

    I have no idea what those products are as far as ingredient wise. (Other than the stabilizer) 200 is way too high for stabilizer. Normal range should be between 40 and 50 unless you are using a salt water chlorine generator, then you need to keep it a little higher.

    Please update your signature to include the size of your pool and the pool type, ie inground plaster, above ground vinyl, etc. We also need to know the volume of your pool and it's also nice to know a bit about your equipment like what type of filter you are using.

    Please read the Pool School info and how to get started using BBB.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Thanks Buggsw!

    My biggest concern is getting off to the right start and staying ahead of any issues. It has been a VERY cool summer so far here but it is supposed to get warmer this week - 80's. Just looking forward to loving our pool!!

    Anyone know what we should do from here given our first pool store test results? I am going to add the Hardness increaser tomorrow then work my way into BBB. I am still trying to get over the $90 sticker shock from earlier today.

    We have a Leslie's not far away--should I buy their test kit or just order online the TF100??

    Thanks again for everyone's willingness to lend assistance! This place ROCKS!
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    924

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    You have a vinyl pool, you don't need the Calcium Hardness Increaser. If you haven't opened it and have your receipt, take it back.

    The most important things for you to maintain is the Chlorine and Ph and Alk. Don't bother with the Leslies test kit. Yes, please do order the TF100. It is a wonderful kit and the price is great. The range your chlorine needs to be depends on what your CYA (stabilizer) level is. The ranges that pool stores and pool store products state are not correct for every pool. Having no CYA is not good, having too much is not good. Try to keep CYA between 40 and 50. It's not something you need to check regularly. However, it is recommended to check your Chlorine and pH daily. (At least until you get it balanced and get to know your pool's personality)

    Start checking out prices of Chlorox (unscented) or liquid chlorine and note the % of sodium hypochlorite differences when you are pricing. Chlorox is 6%, Liquid chlorine is usually sold as 10% or 12.5%. Obviously you would need to use twice as much 6% as you would 12.5%. Many people find the best bargains in their areas at Walmart or Sam's Club or CostCo for 6%. At least get a few large jugs of Chlorox on hand, now.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Hey Buggs!

    Thanks for the advice.... Why would they sell it to me if I didn't need it.... wait... let me rephrase that as I am getting the picture now... What is the purpose of CAL Hardness Increaser in a pool if you dont need it per vinyl and what are the ramifications if you DO use it per their instructions and what if it IS too low if you don't use it??

    Just to be sure I stated it correct it is TOTAL Hardness they are saying is too low... not sure that matters but wanted to throw that out there--is that the same as Cal Hardness?

    Thanks so much everyone!
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,415

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Hey, resch,

    Welcome to the forum. Connie is giving you good advice. Ditch that pool store and start learning how to take care of your pool through knowledge and testing.

    1. They do total hardness because they test with strips (ugh!) and don't have a good test procedure for calcium hardness. Regardless, you don't need it anyway. There's no penalty for not having it but it can be a major problem it it gets much above 400ppm.......keep it lower than that always.

    2. Start absorbing the articles up in Pool School. You will find that chlorine (common household bleach is the best source of chlorine) is critical to the care of your pool. It is a consumable item that you will have to replenish very frequently to sanitize your pool water and prevent algae.

    3. Ask lots of questions, read Pool School and browse thru the other threads. There's a lot of really nice people here to help with any issues you have.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  7. Back To Top    #7
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    I just wanted to say welcome, you've been given great advice so far.

    Don't hesitate to post questions if you need clarification on anything, or dosing advice.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  8. Back To Top    #8
    MikeInTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    1,335

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    The only time you need any calcium in a vinyl lined pool is if you've got a device attached that requires a certain amount for warranty purposes - I'm thinking some of the heaters require a certain CH. Other than that? Nah, not needed.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeInTN
    I'm thinking some of the heaters require a certain CH.
    Some heater warranties require CH. The heater will be just fine either way.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Nope, no heater.... but I did read recently that water too soft can cause a vinyl liner to crack prematurely. How true is this?
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Trying to balance chemicals
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Trying to get chemicals right....

    Hello!!! Trying to be sure I am getting this right... Seems not tho

    ok... Have not been back to the pool store for a check of the water since first one Monday night (pool installed
    last Sat), but I have tested every day using strips and the yellow and red chlorine/pH bottles. My TF100 kit
    comes today so I will have better numbers later.

    Right now:

    pH reading good
    Alk good
    Chlorine... very high... the other night it was 10 on strips, today it was still over 6 on drop/tube test.

    As you can see from my note above, after first water test at pool store, he had me add 2 bags of the super
    potent Shock and the smart sticks were each 1/2 gone so I added one more stick to the skimmer basket 2 days
    after that shock even tho the chlorine read high. Ok, that might have been stupid of me.

    Water looks crystal clear. DD has swam every night for well over an hour each time and we have gotten some
    rain and do need to empty about an inch out of the pool soon. oh, and we are now only running the pump 9 hours
    a day from 10a-1p and 9p-3a. Hope that's ok too.

    Anything anyone would suggest? We are still pretty clueless and have one more smart stick we want to use up
    then we are switching totally to BBB... How would I do this conversion?

    Thanks for all your help!!


    Just as an aside:
    Went Monday for first water test, here's the numbers pool store got:

    Temp: 70 deg
    Sat Idx: -0.8 (ideal: -0.3 to +0.3)
    TDS: 200 (ideal: <2500)
    CYA: 0 (ideal: 30-200) Wow, that's a big range... is it better to be high or low?
    TChlorine: 0 (ideal: 1-3)
    FC: 0 (ideal: 1-3)
    pH: 7.4 (ideal: 7.4-7.6)
    T Alk: 80 (no range given)
    Adj T Alk: 80 (ideal: 125-150)
    THardness: 78 (ideal: 175-225)
    Optimizer+: not tested
    Cloudy: none
    Staining: none
    Quat: not tested (ideal: 4-6)
    Green Algae: none
    Black Algae: none
    Mustard Algae: no
    Slime/Mold: no

    They told me to do the following:
    --Add 12 lbs Balance Pak 100 for Alkalinity directly to the pool
    --at least 45 mins later Add 3# stabilizer very slowly through the filter
    --at least 45 mins later add 7# Balance Pak 300 for Hardness directly to pool
    --at least 45 mins later add 2 bags Burn Out Extreme shock through the filter

    Then the print out tells me to maintain 1-3ppm Chlorine with Silk Tabs (no amount given) and
    2 bags of Smart Shock weekly maintaining 1-4ppm residual.
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Just completely ignore what the pool store is telling you and do some reading at Pool School.

    There is no reason to use calcium with a vinyl pool.

    If you haven't added CYA yet, you want to be adding chlorine in the evening, rather than during the day, as much as possible.

    You want CYA to be around 30 to 50. You need to add some CYA/stabilizer/conditioner, if you haven't already. TA and CH do not need adjusting right now. Start raising the CYA level right away.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    JUST Did TF100 Tests. Here's the numbers we got:

    FC: 4.5
    CC: 0.5
    TC: 5
    pH: 7.2
    T/A: 150
    CH: 150-160
    CYA: 25
    Temp: 74

    Taking what we have read in POOL SCHOOL, it looks to us like we need some borax and CYA. Is this correct or is there something you would suggest beyond that?

    Thanks so much!

    Sorry for breaking posting rules.
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    reebok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    cya yes. borax if you want it for the borates, but not to raise ph imho.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    Ummmmm, Ok I am sorry to be a dunce... but, what am I missing then... 20 Mule raises pH... I need to do so esp after adding stabilizer to raise CYA since it says it also decreases it in POOL SCHOOL/POOL CALCULATOR.

    I am figuring from Pool Calculator that I should add:

    approx 98 oz 20 Mule Borax and 40 oz dry stabilizer (CYA) raising pH by .46 while decreasing it with CYA by .2 and increasing CYA by 14. Should bring me to around 7.5 pH and a CYA of 40. Am I calcuating right??

    Is this right or am I missing something??
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

  17. Back To Top    #17
    reebok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    sorry, I see what you mean now. I was basing my comments off of your current results.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

  18. Back To Top    #18

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,415

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    it looks to us like we need some borax and CYA. Is this correct or is there something you would suggest beyond that?
    look at it as two seperate operations.

    1. Adjust your pH up to 7.4 or 7.6 using 20 mule team borax. Test and adjust tomorrow if you didn't hit in those guidelines.

    2. Add enough CYA to get your total to 40-50ppm using the calculator. It can take up to a week before it will test accurately so calculate closely and then forget it for a week.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    To add the CYA, you pour the required amount of CYA and put it into an old tube sock. Tie a knot in the sock and then take a string and tie the sock off in front of the return, so that the CYA dangles in the water flow, leaving the pump running 24/7 while it dissolves there. After 24 hours, consider your current CYA level to be whatever you targeted. So if you targeted 40, that's your new level, and start maintaining your FC according to that level. But don't retest for it for 5-7 days because it won't register fully until then. But you can safely assume it's there.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    39

    Re: New Pool Owners - Need assistance

    GOOD MORNING!!

    Well I did not get this info about the old tube sock until after I put the CYA in thru the filter last night and tested it this morning. I will be sure to NOT just add it thru the filter slowly as the bottle says. I am planning to add the borax this morning and test again tomorrow.

    This mornings numbers:

    Temp: 66 deg
    FC: 4 (was 4.5 yesterday)
    CC: 0.5
    TC: 4.5
    pH: 7.2
    (which should come up a bit with the borax addition of 64 oz)
    T/A: 150 (steady)
    CH: Did not test (was 150-160 yesterday)
    CYA: 35 (was 25 yesterday-not bad-increased 10 w/32 oz of CYA thru filter despite not doing addition thru sock) Should I now assume I AM at 35 or can the CYA still go up - therefore delay testing CYA again for 5-7 dyas as suggested above?

    You know... I greatly appreciate EVERYONE on this board. I appreciate how much you are willing to help, I appreciate taking control of our pool and not being a slave to the pool store snake oil pushers and I really LOVE the TF100 kit. I feel like I am in science class again

    THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! for helping take something that felt very overwhelming to us and making it not such a big deal!!!
    **8 y/o 24'/52" AG Vinyl 25mil Printed Liner, 14,000 gallons
    1hp Pentair/Sta-Rite 150# Sand Filter hard plumbed w/timer, 31.5 GPM pump volume.
    'Lil Shark Automatic Vacuum. Addicted to our TF100 Kit :)
    **14 y/o 440 gallon Softub. Indoor use only. Previously used BaquaSpa. Would rather not use spa than ever go back to using BS :( Would like to convert to BBB. Guidance welcomed.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •