Water Clarifier to get rid of fine dirt?

Feb 23, 2017
54
Saline, MI
I'm a new pool owner and started to notice my pool was very cloudy/murky a day after doing a manual vacuum. I ordered some water clarifier. Anyone ever user the stuff? Any general advice?

My chemicals are all within the proper ranges. I'm using salt water with a sand filter if that matters.

***Edit***
Updated my signature :)

26,000 Gallon Salt Water, Vinyl Liner. Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo 3HP Pump, Pentair Triton II Side Mount Sand Filter TR100, Pentair 520555 IntelliChlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Gulfstream HE 150 RA Heat Pump
 
I have the kit that is recommended here (TF-100 test kit). All my ranges are what the manufacturer says for my equipment. Seems that the sand filter is no match for the super fine sediment. I can post my results up tomorrow if you think that might help?

I will say, that I've only done one backwash so far, last Saturday and the pressure came down a good 10PSI on the filter, but I'm still seeing the fine sediment on the bottom and cloudy water.

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Have you had good luck putting DE in your sand filter? I asked my local pool company about this and they had never heard of it and thought the DE might be too fine and just pass through the sand and back into the pool.
 
DE works ok, go slowly as it will plug up your SF quite quickly, which just means a backwash and do over no biggie.
What are your manufacturers recommended levels for your CYA, particularily in regards to your SWG.
I have a Hayward and if I went by their recommendation I would have been cloudy long ago, Pentair is also low.
TFP users swear by this chart Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart I have it printed out and hung above my testing station.
 
Well there's a good chance that the manufacturer levels could have gotten you into trouble. They often do not take into account the fact that your chlorine levels must rise if your cya level does. So I think it would be good to post a full set of test results.

You can always do an oclt test to see if there's something in your water consuming chlorine which could result in the sediment you are seeing being dead algae.

There is also information in pool school about adding de to your sand filter. That can help clear up some of the cloudiness but you need to confirm that there's not a chemistry issue also.
 
What are your manufacturers recommended levels for your CYA, particularily in regards to your SWG...
TFP users swear by this chart Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart I have it printed out and hung above my testing station.

I did just get 4,000-6,000 gallons on a recent refill and I never added any additional CYA (stabilizer). I just ordered some from Amazon and it'll be here Wednesday. How do I know how much stabilizer I should add?


Page 13 talks about the about of CYA to add to obtain 40 ppm.

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Thanks, I'll do this test tonight and tomorrow morning!
 

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Mark,

Welcome to tfp, awesome pool and photo's of your construction! I've had 2 years of perfect pool with tfp. It's sooo easy and I highly recommend reading all the stuff in pool school.

If your test results are in ranges recommended in pool school it would indicate to me that you have some particulates, either from construction or just normal wind or dirt from people in and out. 10 psi drop on your sand filter is pretty large! Indicates you are trapping something and probably what is causing the cloudiness in your pool. It also indicates whatever is clouding the pool is getting removed effectively with your filter as is so I wouldn't be in a hurry to modify it. Just back flush it completely and perhaps a couple of times per week to see if that clears up the pool. Use the dime test to measure progress.

How long did it take to get this high? Back flush intervals can vary depending on usage, weather, dust etc but once per week is common. Watch that pressure, when it gets high water flow through the filter is reduced making your problem worse.

I hope this helps.

Chris

PS Ditto the comments that you should have no need for "clarifier".
 
My Hayward recommends 30-50 ppm, I can actually get away with 50 ppm cya until after the june rains are done, after that if I don't drift it up to 70 by the third week in june my swg just can't keep up. I also retest cya after a month of the hot weather/heavy pool usage and usually have to raise it back to 70.
Recommended levels of cya here are from 60-80 Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
I do keep a jug of 10% bleach handy for when my FC drops too much due to bather load ( 6 grandkids ages 2-12 )
Good luck with your OCLT, if you pass maintain your FC level with bleach if your swg cannot keep up, until you can raise your cya level.with a lower
If you fail the OCLT a SLAM will be easier with a lower CYA level, and only having cloudy water, it should go pretty quickly. If you have to SLAM wait until you pass that then add your CYA.
 
If your test results are in ranges recommended in pool school it would indicate to me that you have some particulates, either from construction or just normal wind or dirt from people in and out. 10 psi drop on your sand filter is pretty large! Indicates you are trapping something and probably what is causing the cloudiness in your pool. It also indicates whatever is clouding the pool is getting removed effectively with your filter as is so I wouldn't be in a hurry to modify it. Just back flush it completely and perhaps a couple of times per week to see if that clears up the pool. Use the dime test to measure progress.

How long did it take to get this high? Back flush intervals can vary depending on usage, weather, dust etc but once per week is common. Watch that pressure, when it gets high water flow through the filter is reduced making your problem worse.
I just backwashed 3 days ago and a lot of dirt came out, but I'm still having the murky issue. I'm trying to avoid having to pay another $350 for another water refill so I'd rather not backwash unnecessarily if I can avoid it. This is the first time I've ever backwashed it. Here's what Pentair says about backwashing my filters:


Cleaning Frequency

1. The filter on a new pool should be backwashed, and cleaned after approximately 48 hours of operation to clean out plaster dust and/or construction debris.

2. There are three different ways to identify when the filter needs backwashing.
a. The most accurate indicator on pool systems with a flow meter is to backwash when the flow decreases 30% from the original (clean filter) flow. For example, if the original flow was 60 GPM, the filter shouldbe backwashed when the flow is reduced by about 20 GPM (or 30%) to 40 GPM.
b. A more subjective and less accurate indicator is to observe the amount of water flowing from the flowdirectionals located in the wall of the pool. The filter should be backwashed once it is detected that theflow has been reduced by about 30%.
c. The most commonly used but less accurate indicator is to backwash when the filter gauge readingincreases 10 PSI over the initial (clean filter) reading.

3. It is important not to backwash the filter solely on a timed basis such as every three days. It is also importantto note that backwashing too frequently actually causes poor filtration. Factors like weather conditions, heavyrains, dust or pollen, and water temperature all affect the frequency of backwash. As you use your pool, youwill become aware of these influences.

4. If at any time the starting pressure after backwashing the filter indicates 4 to 6 PSI higher than normal startingpressure, it is time to perform a chemical cleaning procedure.
 
We recommend cleaning the filter when the pressure Rises 20 to 25% over the clean pressure. If you wait for a 10 psi rise that is way too long and your flow will be greatly reduced.
 
How do I perform the FAS-DPD test? I'm not seeing the instructions for this one in my kit.


***Edit*** found it :D

Pool School - FAS-DPD Chlorine Test

I measured my CYA and it didn't even measure on the test tube, holy cow!! I have stabilizer coming tomorrow. I added some at the beginning of the year, but apparently that is all gone.

FC: 1
CC: .5
PH: 8.2
TA: 70

How much of the stabilizer I have coming should I add? I'm having a little trouble understanding the calculator.
 
First things first, get your FC asap, poolmath is telling me 2 gallons of 8.25% will get you to about 8, which isn't too bad as the evening sun will eat up a lot of that with no CYA in the pool. I use an elevated number when I do an OCLT just in case it dips below the minimum.
About 15 - 30 minutes later add 32 oz of 20 Baume Muratic acid, to get your PH to around the 7.5 ish range for a start. When adding either pour slowly into the pool at a return jet, with my Muratic Acid I pre mix it with water by adding 2 parts pool water to a jug then filling the rest with MA, stir with a clean paint stick then pour. Less fumes this way and a bit safer.
About 30-45 minutes after the bleach add re test FC, make sure it is holding. Also re test PH it should be around 7.5 and by reducing it you will enable your FC to work better.
Order more CYA poolmath is telling me you will need about 15 lbs to get to 70 cya, and that 4 lbs will not get you to even 30 ppm CYA. Hoping Jason or someone will doublecheck my math. Doublechecked using my pool numbers and yes I put about 7 lbs of CYA into my pool at start up on a fresh fill.
Ok how to use poolmath.
Top left corner, white box enter your pool volume, across on the far left set units to U.S.
Scroll down to the bottom, in the Suggested Goals box set it to TFP/SWG/Vinyl, this will add the right recommended levels above your chemical level numbers.
While down there set your average daily pool temps and ppm of salt
Then scroll to the top, left hand column is where you enter the numbers from your test, right hand is where you are heading for.
For example you have 1 FC, I entered that, then I entered 7 as a target, hit calculate then it figures out how much to add, you can edit your % of bleach strength to what type of "bullets" you have on hand. Mouse over the add amount or click on it and it will show in gallons/quarts/cups in the top row. I rounded the result up to two gallons, knowing you have no CYA in your with which to hold the FC once in there.
The 3 big numbers to focus on atm are FC, PH and CYA.
Then your OCLT, which are FC, CC
 
First things first, get your FC asap, poolmath is telling me 2 gallons of 8.25% will get you to about 8, which isn't too bad as the evening sun will eat up a lot of that with no CYA in the pool. I use an elevated number when I do an OCLT just in case it dips below the minimum.
About 15 - 30 minutes later add 32 oz of 20 Baume Muratic acid, to get your PH to around the 7.5 ish range for a start. When adding either pour slowly into the pool at a return jet, with my Muratic Acid I pre mix it with water by adding 2 parts pool water to a jug then filling the rest with MA, stir with a clean paint stick then pour. Less fumes this way and a bit safer.
About 30-45 minutes after the bleach add re test FC, make sure it is holding. Also re test PH it should be around 7.5 and by reducing it you will enable your FC to work better.
Order more CYA poolmath is telling me you will need about 15 lbs to get to 70 cya, and that 4 lbs will not get you to even 30 ppm CYA. Hoping Jason or someone will doublecheck my math. Doublechecked using my pool numbers and yes I put about 7 lbs of CYA into my pool at start up on a fresh fill.
Ok how to use poolmath.

First of all, thank you SO SO SO MUCH, I really appreciate yours and everyone else's help here. Without this community I'd feel very conflicted about what to do next.

Second, I have order 8lbs more of the stabilizer (it'll be here Thursday :goodjob:), for a total of 12lbs. I may need close to 16lbs total, but I'm going to add this little by little so I don't over do it.

I forgot to mention I've had my SWG on 100% for many weeks, so adding the CYA will finally start to help the chlorine do it's thing. I'll have the results of the OCLT in the morning.

Third, I have read it's best to adjust the TA before the PH so I'm going to hold of on the muriatic acid as this will further lower my TA. Once I have my Chlorine at a good stable level I'll add baking soda or muriatic acid to get my TA to 80-120 ppm.

Again, thanks everyone so much for all the great advice so far!!!:goodpost:
 
You can always do an oclt test to see if there's something in your water consuming chlorine which could result in the sediment you are seeing being dead algae.

I did the OCLT and the FC was 1 in the evening and the next morning so that would rule dead algae out as the cause of the murky water.

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Find your pool in this chart aim for those levels Pool School - Recommended Levels
TA to me is a "fluff" number, the very last thing I worry about, with my swg I run it from 60-70 np at all as lower tends to lessen acid additions.
FC/PH/CYA
If you want your cell to last a long time the key is keeping your ph in check, adjusting your TA later will help you keep your ph in check.

I'll do some more muriatic acid today to bring the PH down then add the stabilizer when it comes (only 4lbs coming today) and another 2-4lbs more tomorrow when I get another 8lbs total. I'll recheck my CYA, FC, and PH levels at that point to see where I'm at.

Thanks again for all the great advice!
 

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