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Thread: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

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    FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    New pool owner. Intex SWG. Husband set up pool while I was out of town. Added the salt and cyuranic but left me to deal with testing chemistry. So, 2 weeks no chemistry testing. Also, he forgot to do a boost after heavy rain. Pool looks fairly clear although lining is slick.

    Just tested 1st time, using test strips that came with SWG:

    Free Chlorine 1 ppm
    but
    pH, Alk, Calcium, off-the-chart low.

    Intex manual has no instruction of how to treat. Tried to search through TFP. Even Pool School describes chems and how to test for them, but not what to do when they are off.

    So, What do you do when other chems are off? Is there a chart to tell you how to alter each chem?

    Thanks so much,
    Nina

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Ok, just saw the pinned sticky "Water Balance for SWGs" with the details on ideal levels.

    I guess I need a different way to test and a whole bunch of different chemicals?

    1) It says "First step is to adjust salt to the manufacturer's recommended range (usually around 3000-3200 ppm but some models do need a higher level. Check your manual.) Starting out slightly higher (200-400 ppm) than the ideal level is recommended, since the salt level will tend to fall over time."

    How do you TEST the salt level? The Intel SWG has codes if salt is too high or low, but not specific levels.

    2) "Second adjust CYA to between 70 and 80."
    How do you TEST CYA?

    3) [SWG run time > FC] Understood

    4) "Adjust your Total Alkalinity to 60-80 ppm. (This is IMPORTANT!)"
    How do you ADJUST?

    5) "Adjust your pH to 7.2-7.8 and not any lower. Monitor your pH and when it climbs to 7.8 add acid to lower it back to 7.2 - 7.5 (This is also IMPORTANT!)"
    How DO YOU ADJUST?

    6) "Adjust Calcium Hardness to 350 ppm for plaster and 220 ppm for fiberglass. Vinyl pools are OK if the CH is at 50 ppm or higher. In any case it should not be much above 400 ppm"
    How DO YOU ADJUST?

    Thanks,
    Nina

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Test Kit - http://tftestkits.net/ I would get the TF100 or TF100XL with the Taylor K-1766 salt test.
    Reading - abc-of-pool-water-chemistry

    Once you get the kit post the results.
    13k Pebbletec Pool/Spa, Hayward Ecostar, SGS Breeze 540 SWG, Pentair C&C 420 cartridge, Pentair MasterTemp Heater, Caretaker system, TF-100 & Taylor K1766 test kits

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by nina_online View Post
    New pool owner. Intex SWG. Husband set up pool while I was out of town. Added the salt and cyuranic but left me to deal with testing chemistry. So, 2 weeks no chemistry testing. Also, he forgot to do a boost after heavy rain. Pool looks fairly clear although lining is slick.

    Just tested 1st time, using test strips that came with SWG:

    Free Chlorine 1 ppm
    but
    pH, Alk, Calcium, off-the-chart low.

    Intex manual has no instruction of how to treat. Tried to search through TFP. Even Pool School describes chems and how to test for them, but not what to do when they are off.

    So, What do you do when other chems are off? Is there a chart to tell you how to alter each chem?

    Thanks so much,
    Nina

    Quote Originally Posted by nina_online View Post
    Ok, just saw the pinned sticky "Water Balance for SWGs" with the details on ideal levels.

    I guess I need a different way to test and a whole bunch of different chemicals?

    1) It says "First step is to adjust salt to the manufacturer's recommended range (usually around 3000-3200 ppm but some models do need a higher level. Check your manual.) Starting out slightly higher (200-400 ppm) than the ideal level is recommended, since the salt level will tend to fall over time."

    How do you TEST the salt level? The Intel SWG has codes if salt is too high or low, but not specific levels.

    2) "Second adjust CYA to between 70 and 80."
    How do you TEST CYA?

    3) [SWG run time > FC] Understood

    4) "Adjust your Total Alkalinity to 60-80 ppm. (This is IMPORTANT!)"
    How do you ADJUST?

    5) "Adjust your pH to 7.2-7.8 and not any lower. Monitor your pH and when it climbs to 7.8 add acid to lower it back to 7.2 - 7.5 (This is also IMPORTANT!)"
    How DO YOU ADJUST?
    Cong
    6) "Adjust Calcium Hardness to 350 ppm for plaster and 220 ppm for fiberglass. Vinyl pools are OK if the CH is at 50 ppm or higher. In any case it should not be much above 400 ppm"
    How DO YOU ADJUST?

    Thanks,
    Nina

    Congratulations on the new pool. You've come to the right place to get your pool water balanced and looking great.

    You need to get a good test kit and I highly recommend the TF-100 from TFTestkits.net . A link is in my sig. For the salt test, you can get the test strips or the Taylor K-1766 drop based kit.

    What do you do when chems are off? First, we use the test kit to accurately measure the water. Then use Pool Math to determine what and how much needs to be added. The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and Recommended Pool Chemicals will help you learn how to change each parameter that is tested. The Recommended Levels and Pool Math gives a chart of where each level should be.

    You give a list / order / steps to get your water in the correct levels. I'm going to change that list.

    You need to first run a set of tests using the TF-100 or K-2006C test kit . Order one of these kits ASAP. When you get the kit, run the tests. There are some additional directions in this post for Extended Test Kit Directions . Run a set of tests (all but CYA) on your fill water as well. Post them when you can.
    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA
    pool water temp

    While you are waiting for the test kit to arrive, you can manually add bleach daily. Pour in front of the return with the pump running.

    Then get your CYA level in line. This will stabilize / protect the chlorine from the Sun's UV rays. Get granular CYA and put the appropriate amount in a sock and hang it in front of the return. It takes a while to dissolve, but if you squeeze the sock every once in a while, it goes faster.

    Immediately after that, using regular unscented bleach from your favorite store, add enough bleach to get to 5 ppm. You need to do this ASAP to prevent your new pool water from turning green. We start with bleach to increase your chlorine to the proper levels. Once you get the FC (and CYA) in proper range then you can turn on and use the SWG to maintain the FC levels. Use the FC/CYA Chart chart to determine the proper chlorine levels based on the CYA level. Once you put the CYA in a sock and hang it in the water, assume it is in there when deciding on the proper FC level. Use the non-SWG numbers for now.

    Then get your pH within the correct level. You lower pH with muriatic acid. Can be found at most hardware stores in the paint section. Get the regular stuff, not the green label bottle. Do not get the "low fume" type. Raising pH is a bit more complicated. We can advise once we know your other test results.

    For TA, you really only need to adjust this if you find that your pH is not easily controlled or changes quickly. You usually don't have to increase this. To lower, we use Acid to drop the pH & TA, then use aeration to increase pH again.

    For CH, we need to know your pool surface. You only need to closely monitor this if you have plaster/gunite surface. For fiberglass and vinyl surfaces you can ignore this as long as your CSI is within proper range. If you have an Intex pool, then don't add CH and keep an eye on CSI (via Pool Math) and life will be easy.

    You can add the salt at any time really, but there are other chems you should focus on first (CYA and FC).


    Please fill in your Signature. It will help us give appropriate advice without having to ask about your pool, size and equipment each time. Getting Started . Here is the sig link.

    One bit of advice, stay out of the pool store. Do not buy any chemicals from them. Don't buy any chemicals until after you do the tests. You should get liquid bleach and salt though as you will need both of these.

    Please ask any questions you may have. Is there anything above that needs clarification?
    Dave - Aqua Leader Elegance AGP 15'x30'x 54", 12k gallons, vinyl liner ... Hayward/SwimPro Voyager pump SW159412STL, 2hp, 2spd, Hayward/Voyager 175sf element filter SW175MDDVPAKS, Installed August 2016 ... Liquid Chlorine, Stenner, Woods 50015 timer ... TF-100 .... CYA/Chlorine Chart ... Recommended Levels ... Basic Care Schedule ... Extended-Test-Kit-Directions ... ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Congratulations on the new pool. You've come to the right place to get your pool water balanced and looking great.

    You need to get a good test kit and I highly recommend the TF-100 from TFTestkits.net . A link is in my sig. For the salt test, you can get the test strips or the Taylor K-1766 drop based kit.
    Thanks! I appreciate your responding with such helpful information.

    I ordered the TF-100 and K-1766.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    What do you do when chems are off? First, we use the test kit to accurately measure the water. Then use Pool Math to determine what and how much needs to be added. The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and Recommended Pool Chemicals will help you learn how to change each parameter that is tested. The Recommended Levels and Pool Math gives a chart of where each level should be.

    You give a list / order / steps to get your water in the correct levels. I'm going to change that list.
    Ha! That list came from Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs, Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs

    But thank you for your directions! I'm happy to follow them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post

    You need to first run a set of tests using the TF-100 or K-2006C test kit . Order one of these kits ASAP. When you get the kit, run the tests. There are some additional directions in this post for Extended Test Kit Directions . Run a set of tests (all but CYA) on your fill water as well. Post them when you can.
    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA
    pool water temp

    While you are waiting for the test kit to arrive, you can manually add bleach daily. Pour in front of the return with the pump running.
    Any idea how much bleach I should pour in before I test? I am at 1 ppm now. Are we talking half a bottle? a whole? much less?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Then get your CYA level in line. This will stabilize / protect the chlorine from the Sun's UV rays. Get granular CYA and put the appropriate amount in a sock and hang it in front of the return. It takes a while to dissolve, but if you squeeze the sock every once in a while, it goes faster.

    Immediately after that, using regular unscented bleach from your favorite store, add enough bleach to get to 5 ppm. You need to do this ASAP to prevent your new pool water from turning green. We start with bleach to increase your chlorine to the proper levels.
    I am confused. You said:
    manually add bleach daily
    then get your CYA level in line - granular CYA in a sock
    immediately after that, regular unscented bleach, enough to get to 5 ppm

    So, bleach, CYA, then bleach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Once you get the FC (and CYA) in proper range then you can turn on and use the SWG to maintain the FC levels. Use the FC/CYA Chart chart to determine the proper chlorine levels based on the CYA level. Once you put the CYA in a sock and hang it in the water, assume it is in there when deciding on the proper FC level. Use the non-SWG numbers for now.

    Then get your pH within the correct level. You lower pH with muriatic acid. Can be found at most hardware stores in the paint section. Get the regular stuff, not the green label bottle. Do not get the "low fume" type. Raising pH is a bit more complicated. We can advise once we know your other test results.

    For TA, you really only need to adjust this if you find that your pH is not easily controlled or changes quickly. You usually don't have to increase this. To lower, we use Acid to drop the pH & TA, then use aeration to increase pH again.

    For CH, we need to know your pool surface. You only need to closely monitor this if you have plaster/gunite surface. For fiberglass and vinyl surfaces you can ignore this as long as your CSI is within proper range. If you have an Intex pool, then don't add CH and keep an eye on CSI (via Pool Math) and life will be easy.

    You can add the salt at any time really, but there are other chems you should focus on first (CYA and FC).
    Thanks. Will work on the rest after test kit comes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Please fill in your Signature. It will help us give appropriate advice without having to ask about your pool, size and equipment each time. Getting Started . Here is the sig link.
    Thank you. Done. I stole your ... style!

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    One bit of advice, stay out of the pool store. Do not buy any chemicals from them. Don't buy any chemicals until after you do the tests. You should get liquid bleach and salt though as you will need both of these.
    Sounds good. I have pool salt and CYA. I need to buy bleach. Is one bottle of bleach enough?

    I inherited a friend's pool accessories including a chlorine floatie thing which contains 4 chlorine tabs. I just put in the pool for now.

    Also, a 1/2 bag of Leslie's "ChlorBrite Quick Dissolving Concentrated Chlorinating Granular - use for shocking or everyday chlorination" Can I use that instead of the liquid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Please ask any questions you may have. Is there anything above that needs clarification?
    Sounds good, thanks so much!

    Nina

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Hi Nina,

    You're sig still isn't showing, the amount of bleach depends on the size of your pool (which you could put in your sig) but having an FC around 1 especially if there was stabilizer already added is way too low. You can plug in your pool size (gallons) in the pool math calculator to raise your FC until you get your test kit. You should try to get some bleach in there ASAP.
    -Tim-
    Pool: 86 gunite/plaster screened IG 11K 14' X 29', Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST, Hayward SwimPure 40K SWCG, Hayward Poolvergnuegen autovac,
    Heat: 280 sq ft Ultrasun solar Panels, Pentair Solartouch Cont, (solar cover and reel)
    Tests: Taylor K-2006C & K-1766 w/ speedstir

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by BasicTek View Post
    Hi Nina,

    You're sig still isn't showing, the amount of bleach depends on the size of your pool (which you could put in your sig) but having an FC around 1 especially if there was stabilizer already added is way too low. You can plug in your pool size (gallons) in the pool math calculator to raise your FC until you get your test kit. You should try to get some bleach in there ASAP.
    Ok, hopefully the sig is working now. That calculator is great. Going to the store shortly to buy bleach.

    Thanks for your response!

    Nina
    Nina ... Austin, TX ... First-time pool owner (installed Aug 2017) ... Intex Ultra Frame 15' x 42" (AG, vinyl liner) ... 3,357 gallons ... Game SandPro Pump and Filter kit model 50D (1/2 HP, 2,400 GPH) ... Intex Saltwater System with Electrocatalytic Oxidation, model ECO7110 (Academy: "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System") ... TF-100 and K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by nina_online View Post
    I ordered the TF-100 and K-1766.

    Any idea how much bleach I should pour in before I test? I am at 1 ppm now. Are we talking half a bottle? a whole? much less?

    I am confused. You said:
    manually add bleach daily
    then get your CYA level in line - granular CYA in a sock
    immediately after that, regular unscented bleach, enough to get to 5 ppm

    So, bleach, CYA, then bleach?


    Thank you. Done. I stole your ... style!

    Sounds good. I have pool salt and CYA. I need to buy bleach. Is one bottle of bleach enough?

    I inherited a friend's pool accessories including a chlorine floatie thing which contains 4 chlorine tabs. I just put in the pool for now.

    Also, a 1/2 bag of Leslie's "ChlorBrite Quick Dissolving Concentrated Chlorinating Granular - use for shocking or everyday chlorination" Can I use that instead of the liquid?
    The amount of bleach you need to add depends on how many gallons of water are in your pool. You can then use Pool Math to get the amount of bleach to add.

    We recommend using liquid bleach and granular CYA separate so that you know how much of each you are adding. The ChlorBrite granular you are using is the same as dichlor. That is how it is listed in Pool Math. Dichlor is a combination of chlorine and CYA and about 1:1 of each. The dichlor is granular and fast dissolving and not typically used in a floater. The floater uses trichlor tabs which are slow disolving, again a combination of chlorine and CYA and about 10:6 of each. You could use the bottom section of Pool Math to figure out how much chlorine and CYA those chemicals add, but as you can see, it can become very complicated. Hence why we recommend bleach and CYA separate. You add a known amount and don't have to guess. Since the trichlor is slow dissolving, you never really know how much is in the water vs still in the floater.

    I recommended manually adding bleach daily. This is how you maintain the FC level until you start using the SWG. d
    You should get the CYA in a sock in front of the return. Then as a daily dose, use the bleach to increase your FC level. You don't need to and shouldn't wait until the CYA is fully dissolved before adding bleach.
    Sorry if I confused you, it was a method of adding bleach followed by the order in which you should proceed.

    Sorry to stay it again, but I'd recommend not using the floater or ChlorBrite powder right now. Since you have the CYA powder now, use that instead. Aim low for the CYA in the sock and you can always add more later the CYA tests low. Its a lot easier to add more. Removing CYA is not as easy.

    Your sig still isn't showing. If you added your sig, great. When you make a post, you need to make sure that you have the check boxed ticked for "show your signature" on the bottom left of the post.
    Dave - Aqua Leader Elegance AGP 15'x30'x 54", 12k gallons, vinyl liner ... Hayward/SwimPro Voyager pump SW159412STL, 2hp, 2spd, Hayward/Voyager 175sf element filter SW175MDDVPAKS, Installed August 2016 ... Liquid Chlorine, Stenner, Woods 50015 timer ... TF-100 .... CYA/Chlorine Chart ... Recommended Levels ... Basic Care Schedule ... Extended-Test-Kit-Directions ... ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by nina_online View Post
    Ok, hopefully the sig is working now. That calculator is great. Going to the store shortly to buy bleach.
    It's working now, with a 3350 pool you shouldn't need a lot, maybe around 15 oz to start and get it to the 5ish range. You really need a good test kit so we can tell what's in your water before making too many other suggestions.
    -Tim-
    Pool: 86 gunite/plaster screened IG 11K 14' X 29', Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST, Hayward SwimPure 40K SWCG, Hayward Poolvergnuegen autovac,
    Heat: 280 sq ft Ultrasun solar Panels, Pentair Solartouch Cont, (solar cover and reel)
    Tests: Taylor K-2006C & K-1766 w/ speedstir

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Thanks everyone. After putting in the amount of chlorine that the Pool Math calculated, last night, I just tested and FC is 3-4. (Although I ordered the TF-100 kit, I did inherit a FC, BR and pH chemistry test kit). pH is 7.6-7.7.

    However, I am already finding the smell of chlorine to be stronger than I was hoping for. Don't saltwater pools have less FC than regular pools? The ones I've swam in certainly seemed to.

    And, sorry to be heretical, but everywhere else I've looked, a FC level of 1-3 ppm is recommended (CDC says 2 or more ppm, I did find one site that said 2-4 ppm). TFP recommends 3-5 or 6? That does not sound appealing. What's the deal with the high recommended FC level?

    Thanks,
    Nina
    Nina ... Austin, TX ... First-time pool owner (installed Aug 2017) ... Intex Ultra Frame 15' x 42" (AG, vinyl liner) ... 3,357 gallons ... Game SandPro Pump and Filter kit model 50D (1/2 HP, 2,400 GPH) ... Intex Saltwater System with Electrocatalytic Oxidation, model ECO7110 (Academy: "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System") ... TF-100 and K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    TFP use the FC/CYA relationship. FC/CYA Chart The chemistry is discussed here Pool Water Chemistry

    If you smell chlorine, those are CC's. You may need to SLAM

    You most likely do not have enough FC in our pool water vs your CYA.

    I run my FC at 7 with a CYA of 80. I never smell chlorine, because I keep my FC high enough.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir!
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    Marty

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by nina_online View Post
    I ordered the TF-100 kit

    However, I am already finding the smell of chlorine to be stronger than I was hoping for. Don't saltwater pools have less FC than regular pools? The ones I've swam in certainly seemed to.

    And, sorry to be heretical, but everywhere else I've looked, a FC level of 1-3 ppm is recommended (CDC says 2 or more ppm, I did find one site that said 2-4 ppm). TFP recommends 3-5 or 6? That does not sound appealing. What's the deal with the high recommended FC level?

    Thanks,
    Nina
    Great job ordering the TF-100. The first step to getting great, clean, safe, sanitary, NO SMELLING water.

    You will find that if you follow the TFP methods, you will actually keep a higher FC level with a SWG pool than without one. This is due to the amount of CYA in the water. The higher the CYA, the higher the FC needs to be for the chlorine to be able to do its job. The reason you keep a higher CYA level is to protect the precious FC that the SWG produces. Thus allowing your SWG to not have to work as hard to maintain the FC level (less burn off from the Sun's UV rays).

    The CDC and Industry in general doesn't consider the CYA / Chlorine relationship. This relationship has been known for years. The FC levels the CDC considers are based on a CYA of zero. If you look at the active chlorine level tables, 1 ppm with zero CYA has about the same active chlorine as 20ppm FC at 50 CYA. TFP recommends 6-8ppm FC at 50 CYA. As you can see there is a significant difference with TFP methods being much lower.

    At proper chlorine/CYA levels, you will have very comfortable water and your guests will assume you are not using any chlorine at all!!

    More to read here .

    The "chlorine" smell that you are smelling is actually the byproducts (CC) produced after your chlorine does it's job. You actually should never smell that at all when your water is properly balanced. To get rid of the smell, you actually add MORE chlorine, not use less.
    Dave - Aqua Leader Elegance AGP 15'x30'x 54", 12k gallons, vinyl liner ... Hayward/SwimPro Voyager pump SW159412STL, 2hp, 2spd, Hayward/Voyager 175sf element filter SW175MDDVPAKS, Installed August 2016 ... Liquid Chlorine, Stenner, Woods 50015 timer ... TF-100 .... CYA/Chlorine Chart ... Recommended Levels ... Basic Care Schedule ... Extended-Test-Kit-Directions ... ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by mknauss View Post
    TFP use the FC/CYA relationship. FC/CYA Chart The chemistry is discussed here Pool Water Chemistry

    If you smell chlorine, those are CC's. You may need to SLAM

    You most likely do not have enough FC in our pool water vs your CYA.

    I run my FC at 7 with a CYA of 80. I never smell chlorine, because I keep my FC high enough.

    Take care.
    Thank you for your response. Good to hear that there is a method behind the madness and that the odor is CC and not FC. I'm at a disadvantage in that I am waiting for my test kit in the mail.

    Thanks,
    Nina
    Nina ... Austin, TX ... First-time pool owner (installed Aug 2017) ... Intex Ultra Frame 15' x 42" (AG, vinyl liner) ... 3,357 gallons ... Game SandPro Pump and Filter kit model 50D (1/2 HP, 2,400 GPH) ... Intex Saltwater System with Electrocatalytic Oxidation, model ECO7110 (Academy: "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System") ... TF-100 and K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Great job ordering the TF-100. The first step to getting great, clean, safe, sanitary, NO SMELLING water.

    You will find that if you follow the TFP methods, you will actually keep a higher FC level with a SWG pool than without one. This is due to the amount of CYA in the water. The higher the CYA, the higher the FC needs to be for the chlorine to be able to do its job. The reason you keep a higher CYA level is to protect the precious FC that the SWG produces. Thus allowing your SWG to not have to work as hard to maintain the FC level (less burn off from the Sun's UV rays).

    The CDC and Industry in general doesn't consider the CYA / Chlorine relationship. This relationship has been known for years. The FC levels the CDC considers are based on a CYA of zero. If you look at the active chlorine level tables, 1 ppm with zero CYA has about the same active chlorine as 20ppm FC at 50 CYA. TFP recommends 6-8ppm FC at 50 CYA. As you can see there is a significant difference with TFP methods being much lower.

    At proper chlorine/CYA levels, you will have very comfortable water and your guests will assume you are not using any chlorine at all!!

    More to read here .

    The "chlorine" smell that you are smelling is actually the byproducts (CC) produced after your chlorine does it's job. You actually should never smell that at all when your water is properly balanced. To get rid of the smell, you actually add MORE chlorine, not use less.
    Thanks for taking the time to explain. I am on board. Looking forward to receiving that test kit!
    Nina ... Austin, TX ... First-time pool owner (installed Aug 2017) ... Intex Ultra Frame 15' x 42" (AG, vinyl liner) ... 3,357 gallons ... Game SandPro Pump and Filter kit model 50D (1/2 HP, 2,400 GPH) ... Intex Saltwater System with Electrocatalytic Oxidation, model ECO7110 (Academy: "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System") ... TF-100 and K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

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    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Congratulations on the new pool. You've come to the right place to get your pool water balanced and looking great.

    You need to get a good test kit and I highly recommend the TF-100 from TFTestkits.net . A link is in my sig. For the salt test, you can get the test strips or the Taylor K-1766 drop based kit.
    ...

    While you are waiting for the test kit to arrive, you can manually add bleach daily. Pour in front of the return with the pump running.

    Then get your CYA level in line. This will stabilize / protect the chlorine from the Sun's UV rays. Get granular CYA and put the appropriate amount in a sock and hang it in front of the return. It takes a while to dissolve, but if you squeeze the sock every once in a while, it goes faster.

    Immediately after that, using regular unscented bleach from your favorite store, add enough bleach to get to 5 ppm. You need to do this ASAP to prevent your new pool water from turning green. We start with bleach to increase your chlorine to the proper levels. Once you get the FC (and CYA) in proper range then you can turn on and use the SWG to maintain the FC levels. Use the FC/CYA Chart chart to determine the proper chlorine levels based on the CYA level. Once you put the CYA in a sock and hang it in the water, assume it is in there when deciding on the proper FC level. Use the non-SWG numbers for now.

    ...
    Yesterday when my kit came I tested the water and it was:
    FC: 1 ppm
    CC 0.5 ppm
    TC: 1.5 ppm
    CYA: 25
    pH 7.6 (per K-1000 kit)
    Cl: 0?? (per K-1000 kit)
    TA: 50

    Per instructions above, last night I added CYA in a sock and liquid bleach (* see footnote on concentration). The CYA didn't seem to come out of the sock, so I kneaded it for several minutes till about 2/3 had been released. The remaining 1/3 was still in the sock this morning, I kneaded more out. (Am I using the wrong kind of sock? I am using my husbands thick white socks, similar to these: https://www.target.com/p/men-s-hanes...30#lnk=sametab but used one that was a little bit worn/thin in one part.)

    I referred to Pool School - Recommended Levels and Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart to figure out the CYA to use with the target pH of 5ppm. So, I entered into the Pool Math calculator:
    FC: Now 1 Target 5
    CYA Now 25 Target 40

    But because I had invited friends over to swim today, I was conservative and only added about 1/2 the recommended amount of each last night to make sure I didn't make a mistake resulting in the pool levels being too high to swim today.

    Using the TF-100 test kit, I just tested and FC is WAY TOO HIGH:

    FC: 18 - 20 ppm (At 18 ppm all the pink was gone but the solution was slightly gray, not completely clear. Completely clear = 20 ppm)
    CC: Not sure. After adding 5 drops of R-0003 the water turned darker gray. I did not continue, i.e., I did not add R-0871. I still can, though. SHOULD I?
    TC: ?
    CYA: 90

    Per K-1000
    pH: 7.0
    CL: off the charts

    CAN WE SWIM OR IS CHLORINE TOO HIGH?

    ---------------------------

    * The Bleach I bought says:
    Concentrated: 121 oz = 182 oz of older/regular product. (This was the generic store brand, not Clorox)
    But the ingredients say:
    Sodium Hypochlorite: 8.25%
    Other ingredients: 91.75%
    Yields 7.86% available chlorine

    In the Pool Math calculator, I enter 8% by weight.
    Nina ... Austin, TX ... First-time pool owner (installed Aug 2017) ... Intex Ultra Frame 15' x 42" (AG, vinyl liner) ... 3,357 gallons ... Game SandPro Pump and Filter kit model 50D (1/2 HP, 2,400 GPH) ... Intex Saltwater System with Electrocatalytic Oxidation, model ECO7110 (Academy: "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System") ... TF-100 and K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    74

    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Congratulations on the new pool. You've come to the right place to get your pool water balanced and looking great.

    You need to get a good test kit and I highly recommend the TF-100 from TFTestkits.net . A link is in my sig. For the salt test, you can get the test strips or the Taylor K-1766 drop based kit.
    ...

    While you are waiting for the test kit to arrive, you can manually add bleach daily. Pour in front of the return with the pump running.

    Then get your CYA level in line. This will stabilize / protect the chlorine from the Sun's UV rays. Get granular CYA and put the appropriate amount in a sock and hang it in front of the return. It takes a while to dissolve, but if you squeeze the sock every once in a while, it goes faster.

    Immediately after that, using regular unscented bleach from your favorite store, add enough bleach to get to 5 ppm. You need to do this ASAP to prevent your new pool water from turning green. We start with bleach to increase your chlorine to the proper levels. Once you get the FC (and CYA) in proper range then you can turn on and use the SWG to maintain the FC levels. Use the FC/CYA Chart chart to determine the proper chlorine levels based on the CYA level. Once you put the CYA in a sock and hang it in the water, assume it is in there when deciding on the proper FC level. Use the non-SWG numbers for now.

    ...
    Yesterday when my kit came I tested the water and it was:
    FC: 1 ppm
    CC 0.5 ppm
    TC: 1.5 ppm
    CYA: 25
    pH 7.6 (per K-1000 kit)
    Cl: 0?? (per K-1000 kit)
    TA: 50

    Per instructions above, last night I added CYA in a sock and liquid bleach (* see footnote on concentration). The CYA didn't seem to come out of the sock, so I kneaded it for several minutes till about 2/3 had been released. The remaining 1/3 was still in the sock this morning, I kneaded more out. (Am I using the wrong kind of sock? I am using my husbands thick white socks, similar to these: https://www.target.com/p/men-s-hanes...30#lnk=sametab but used one that was a little bit worn/thin in one part.)

    I referred to Pool School - Recommended Levels and Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart to figure out the CYA to use with the target pH of 5ppm. So, I entered into the Pool Math calculator:
    FC: Now 1 Target 5
    CYA Now 25 Target 40

    But because I had invited friends over to swim today, I was conservative and only added about 1/2 the recommended amount of each last night to make sure I didn't make a mistake resulting in the pool levels being too high to swim today.

    Using the TF-100 test kit, I just tested and FC is WAY TOO HIGH:

    FC: 18 - 20 ppm (At 18 ppm all the pink was gone but the solution was slightly gray, not completely clear. Completely clear = 20 ppm)
    CC: Not sure. After adding 5 drops of R-0003 the water turned darker gray. I did not continue, i.e., I did not add R-0871. I still can, though. SHOULD I?
    TC: ?
    CYA: 90

    Per K-1000
    pH: 7.0
    CL: off the charts

    CAN WE SWIM OR IS CHLORINE TOO HIGH?

    Thanks so much for your help!

    ---------------------------

    * The Bleach I bought says:
    Concentrated: 121 oz = 182 oz of older/regular product. (This was the generic store brand, not Clorox)
    But the ingredients say:
    Sodium Hypochlorite: 8.25%
    Other ingredients: 91.75%
    Yields 7.86% available chlorine

    In the Pool Math calculator, I enter 8% by weight.
    Nina ... Austin, TX ... First-time pool owner (installed Aug 2017) ... Intex Ultra Frame 15' x 42" (AG, vinyl liner) ... 3,357 gallons ... Game SandPro Pump and Filter kit model 50D (1/2 HP, 2,400 GPH) ... Intex Saltwater System with Electrocatalytic Oxidation, model ECO7110 (Academy: "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System") ... TF-100 and K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Teald024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    807

    FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by nina_online View Post
    Yesterday when my kit came I tested the water and it was:
    FC: 1 ppm
    CC 0.5 ppm
    TC: 1.5 ppm
    CYA: 25
    pH 7.6 (per K-1000 kit)
    Cl: 0?? (per K-1000 kit)
    TA: 50

    Per instructions above, last night I added CYA in a sock and liquid bleach (* see footnote on concentration). The CYA didn't seem to come out of the sock, so I kneaded it for several minutes till about 2/3 had been released. The remaining 1/3 was still in the sock this morning, I kneaded more out. (Am I using the wrong kind of sock? I am using my husbands thick white socks, similar to these: https://www.target.com/p/men-s-hanes...30#lnk=sametab but used one that was a little bit worn/thin in one part.)

    I referred to Pool School - Recommended Levels and Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart to figure out the CYA to use with the target pH of 5ppm. So, I entered into the Pool Math calculator:
    FC: Now 1 Target 5
    CYA Now 25 Target 40

    But because I had invited friends over to swim today, I was conservative and only added about 1/2 the recommended amount of each last night to make sure I didn't make a mistake resulting in the pool levels being too high to swim today.

    Using the TF-100 test kit, I just tested and FC is WAY TOO HIGH:

    FC: 18 - 20 ppm (At 18 ppm all the pink was gone but the solution was slightly gray, not completely clear. Completely clear = 20 ppm)
    CC: Not sure. After adding 5 drops of R-0003 the water turned darker gray. I did not continue, i.e., I did not add R-0871. I still can, though. SHOULD I?
    TC: ?
    CYA: 90

    Per K-1000
    pH: 7.0
    CL: off the charts

    CAN WE SWIM OR IS CHLORINE TOO HIGH?

    ---------------------------

    * The Bleach I bought says:
    Concentrated: 121 oz = 182 oz of older/regular product. (This was the generic store brand, not Clorox)
    But the ingredients say:
    Sodium Hypochlorite: 8.25%

    In the Pool Math calculator, I enter 8% by weight.
    First, good job using a great test kit.

    I will answer your most pressing question first, yes you can swim your water at that FC level. I'm surprised you overshot your chemicals by that much considering you only added half of what Pool Math said you should. Either you enter the data into pool math wrong or your water volume is significantly less than you thought.

    The criteria for swimming is that FC is below slam level for your CYA, pH is between 7.2-7.8, and you can see clearly to the bottom of the pool.

    Slam level FC is 35 ppm for a CYA of 90ppm. So you meet that criteria. Next, you could aerate the water to increase your pH a bit. Clear pool is on you since you haven't posted any pictures.

    You added the CYA correctly, sometimes it just takes a while to dissolve. Getting yourself and friends in there to mix the water will help it to dissolve faster anyways.

    As a sidenote, if you use the FAS-DPD power test for chlorine, you don't also need to do the K-1000 OTO test with the block. With a FC of 28ppm, it is pointless.

    Also, your pH test is not valid since your FC was so high. Your pH is likely lower than 7.0 but you cannot test it with chlorine level that high. FC needs to be below 10 ppm for a valid pH test.

    What is your calcium hardness level? With this you can calculate the CSI to make sure your water is balanced pending the SWG startup.
    Dave - Aqua Leader Elegance AGP 15'x30'x 54", 12k gallons, vinyl liner ... Hayward/SwimPro Voyager pump SW159412STL, 2hp, 2spd, Hayward/Voyager 175sf element filter SW175MDDVPAKS, Installed August 2016 ... Liquid Chlorine, Stenner, Woods 50015 timer ... TF-100 .... CYA/Chlorine Chart ... Recommended Levels ... Basic Care Schedule ... Extended-Test-Kit-Directions ... ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

  18. Back To Top    #18
    BasicTek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Lake Mary, FL
    Posts
    401

    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    While your FC is safe even if it is 20. I have a few quick questions about your test? Your sample size was 10 ml, you added 1 scoop of powder (if heaping how heaping), and it took 40 drops of 871 to go from pink to clear?
    -Tim-
    Pool: 86 gunite/plaster screened IG 11K 14' X 29', Hayward 120 sq ft cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST, Hayward SwimPure 40K SWCG, Hayward Poolvergnuegen autovac,
    Heat: 280 sq ft Ultrasun solar Panels, Pentair Solartouch Cont, (solar cover and reel)
    Tests: Taylor K-2006C & K-1766 w/ speedstir

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    74

    Re: FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Thank you so much for your response!

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    First, good job using a great test kit.
    ...
    Either you enter the data into pool math wrong or your water volume is significantly less than you thought.
    OMG. You're right! I accidentally put 10 x the gallons into the calculator! So, I put 5 times the recommended amount of CYA and bleach into the pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Next, you could aerate the water to increase your pH a bit.
    How do you aerate? Do you mean just run the pump? I turned on the pump last night in order to pour the bleach into the stream of water, and left it on overnight to facilitate mixing the CYA and bleach into the pool water. Was that the right thing to do? Does that count as aerating?

    By the way, my husband, who set up the pool, pump, filter, and SWG while the kids and I were out of town (but left the chemistry to me), has the SWG set to run 5 hours (daytime). Is that bad to do at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    Clear pool is on you since you haven't posted any pictures.
    Yes, it's clear and looks nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    You added the CYA correctly, sometimes it just takes a while to dissolve. Getting yourself and friends in there to mix the water will help it to dissolve faster anyways.

    As a sidenote, if you use the FAS-DPD power test for chlorine, you don't also need to do the K-1000 OTO test with the block. With a FC of 28ppm, it is pointless.

    Also, your pH test is not valid since your FC was so high. Your pH is likely lower than 7.0 but you cannot test it with chlorine level that high. FC needs to be below 10 ppm for a valid pH test.
    Good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teald024 View Post
    What is your calcium hardness level? With this you can calculate the CSI to make sure your water is balanced pending the SWG startup.
    CH: 100 ppm

    Don't know what CSI is.

    Thanks so much for your help!

    Nina

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BasicTek View Post
    While your FC is safe even if it is 20. I have a few quick questions about your test? Your sample size was 10 ml, you added 1 scoop of powder (if heaping how heaping), and it took 40 drops of 871 to go from pink to clear?
    Yes, 10 ml
    Yes, 1 scoop, medium heaping
    36-40 drops (greyish to completely clear)

    See above: I messed up with pool volume, so I put 5 times the amount of chemicals in!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks, guys.

    Not sure what to do about putting in way to much chemicals. The water level has decreased over time, so we could add about 3" of water in.
    Nina ... Austin, TX ... First-time pool owner (installed Aug 2017) ... Intex Ultra Frame 15' x 42" (AG, vinyl liner) ... 3,357 gallons ... Game SandPro Pump and Filter kit model 50D (1/2 HP, 2,400 GPH) ... Intex Saltwater System with Electrocatalytic Oxidation, model ECO7110 (Academy: "Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System") ... TF-100 and K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Teald024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    807

    FC fine but other chems off-the-chart low??

    Quote Originally Posted by nina_online View Post
    OMG. You're right! I accidentally put 10 x the gallons into the calculator! So, I put 5 times the recommended amount of CYA and bleach into the pool.

    How do you aerate? Do you mean just run the pump? I turned on the pump last night in order to pour the bleach into the stream of water, and left it on overnight to facilitate mixing the CYA and bleach into the pool water. Was that the right thing to do? Does that count as aerating?

    By the way, my husband, who set up the pool, pump, filter, and SWG while the kids and I were out of town (but left the chemistry to me), has the SWG set to run 5 hours (daytime). Is that bad to do at this point?

    CH: 100 ppm

    Don't know what CSI is.


    See above: I messed up with pool volume, so I put 5 times the amount of chemicals in!

    Not sure what to do about putting in way to much chemicals. The water level has decreased over time, so we could add about 3" of water in.
    You accidentally got the CYA where you want it for a SWG pool. 70-80 is a good range. You can start using the SWG to provide the needed FC. You WILL have to test FC daily until you get it dialed in. Use bleach for a quick bump up of FC. Then adjust the SWG as necessary to maintain the proper FC level for your CYA. See the CYA/FC Chart in my sig.

    Don't worry about putting in to much chemicals. You actually got CYA where you wanted it. The FC will come down on its own. If not, then just turn off the SWG until it does.

    For aeration, if you have an adjustable return eye, you can point it up so the water breaks the surface and causes aeration. For the standard intex, you can't really do that. Maybe just try running the SWG and see if tthat raises your pH enough. Pools with a SWG usually have to deal with raising pH anyway.

    PoolMath will calculate the CSI for you. Right now with your low pH, CH, and low TA, the CSI is very negative. It's ok because you have a vinyl liner, but don't let CSI get above 0.6 or you have issues with scaling of your SWG.
    Dave - Aqua Leader Elegance AGP 15'x30'x 54", 12k gallons, vinyl liner ... Hayward/SwimPro Voyager pump SW159412STL, 2hp, 2spd, Hayward/Voyager 175sf element filter SW175MDDVPAKS, Installed August 2016 ... Liquid Chlorine, Stenner, Woods 50015 timer ... TF-100 .... CYA/Chlorine Chart ... Recommended Levels ... Basic Care Schedule ... Extended-Test-Kit-Directions ... ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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