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Thread: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

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    Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    First off I'm sorry if this is not the place to post this. I have questions along the same line as the topic but only found a place to post a reply.
    Split post and sent PM to explain. Butterfly

    I found your web-site on another site that I was reading about BBB. I have read on that site for a couple of days now. But am sorry to say I haven't got a chance to read as much here. First I would like to thank you for making it available.(and yes I am a lifetime member now) I know I will spend many hours here!

    I have issues with my pool that I think you may be able to help with. First I will let you know the readings that I got on my testing. I am using a HTH 5 in 1 test kit but will order a better one tomorrow.

    My total alkalinity is 270
    pH is 7.5
    CYA is 100
    Hardness is 150
    Total clorine is 3

    YUCK! yes I know this is all way off. I have a salt water generator on the pool running full strength. My pump is running 24/7 and has been for as long as I can remember. (We have had the pool 13 years or so) I do turn it off for the months of Nov. Dec. Jan. Feb. March, and back on in April.

    Every year when I turn the pump back on the water is green. My neighbor has cypress trees about 20 feet from my pool than drop stuff into it all the time. So this year (before I ever heard about BBB) I went to Sam's Club and purchased 6 gal. of Clearon Poolbrand 40 algaecide. I put all 6 gal in at one time. My water turned very milky. So I put 10 puck tablets in my skimmer basket. It didn't clear up completely but was starting to look much better. So then I got a pool man to come over and look at it. He tested the water and the alkalinity was VERY low. I don't remember if it even read on the color scale. So he told us to add Baking Soda to the pool. He said to start with 3 - 12 pound bags and continue to put 3 -3" puck tablets in the skimmer basket. He came and tested again in a couple of days and alkalinity was still low but was at least showing. Had us add a couple more 12 lb. bags and keep adding chlorine via puck tablets in the skimmer. He came back to test the water in a couple of days now the Alkalinity was 7.2 but the chlorine was at the top of the color chart which only went to 5. Told us to quit putting chlorine for a couple of days. The water was starting to look clear. We could see the bottom in the deep. Maybe just a slight (very slight) cloudy. That only lasted one or two days then the steps and skimmer stuff all turned a tea color. And I noticed a slight green tint in the deep. So I started putting 3 or 4 puck tablets in the skimmer basket again. Then I decided to do a web search to see if I could find anything that could help me. For years my husband had been telling me the places that sell pool chem. and test the water only want you to buy their products. One year they told me that I needed to add 150 lbs of something to make my calcium in my pool go up. (I have a vinyl pool liner) They told me that if I didn't get the calcium up that when we swim in the pool it would take calcium from us. I thought this was odd but bought the stuff and put it in the pool. That was the last time my husband let me go back to that place.

    After finding a similiar web site I read about BBB and really was liking what I was reading. It was saying what my husband believed and really made sense to me. So this morning I tested the water with my 5 in 1 HTH test kit and got the results that I posted earlier. The only difference is it didn't show any chlorine at all. So I first put 9 gallons of 5.25% bleach. I retested the water about 90 minutes later and it showed a total clorine reading of 3. So with my CYA so high I waited until after sundown and put 3 more gallons of bleach. But it was too dark to test. (sorry) Also I started areating the pool around 2:30 this afternoon. My water temp at that time was 90 degrees.

    The pool is still green and steps are still brown. (of course I did nothing to change that) Do I need to get the number down before I put more chlorine?? The instructions that came with my saltwater chlorinator says to keep Free Chlorine at 0.5 - 1.0, pH at 7.2 -7.6, Total Alkalinity at 80 - 120, calcium hardness at 200 - 400, Stablizer at 50 - 80 and phosphates <100.

    I will be ordering a better test kit along with the strips that test the salt level. But can't stand to look at a green pool. But I will gladly take any advise given I will continue to test and post my results. But how often do test after I add bleach to see if it indeed brings the numbers up. I know I read to test 3 times a day. Morning, noon and evening. But does that include if I want to see if the chlorine is going up?

    Thanks for all your help!
    Ramona

    ps I have already downloaded the app for my iPhone that converts everything for me. Great job to who ever developed that app
    25k gal in ground true L shape, vinyl, sand filter 100 gpm flow that holds 600 lbs of sand, 1 1/2 hp Hayward motor, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, diving board, 3 ft bottom of L shape - 8 ft. deep end, Delzone TrioPure SWG, Kreepy that is about deads. Removable safety fence.

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Hi Ramona and welcome to the forum

    The problem with having CYA of 100 is that it is difficult to test and the actual CYA could be much higher.
    If you feel comfortable that the CYA is at least 100, I recommend you start a series of partial drains/refills to get to about 80. Then start shocking your pool.

    See Pool School for detailed instructions on how to shock your pool.

    Also in Pool School we have an article comparing the recommended test kits.
    The best bang for the $ and with excellent service (from duraleigh) is the TF100 from http://www.tftestkits.net .

    If your TA # is correct, it will need to be lowered, but you can take care that after the pool is cleared.

    You can test as often as you like for the chlorine, but wait 30 to 45 minutes after adding to test.
    Also, until you get that CYA lowered, it will take huge amounts of chlorine to even reach shock level.

    When you get a moment, please add your pool and equipment specs to your signature.
    Go to User Control Panel (upper left under the TFP Logo), select Profile, then Edit Signature.
    Please limit your sig to five lines of text. The info we need in the sig is listed in Pool School.

    We're glad to have you. Others will be along soon to help you take control of your pool!
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

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  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Wow... I think that pool guy did you a huge disservice... it looks like you've added 60 lbs of alkalinity increaser, which has shot your TA WAYYYY over where it needs to be. Unfortunately lowering TA can be a lengthy process. Please be sure to read Pool School and the Lowering TA article...

    pool-school/lowering%20total%20alkalinity

    Because of the high TA and slightly high CYA, you might want to do a partial drain.. 20 to 25% if you can. If this is a big cost or problem, then you might want to wait until the good test kit arrives so you can verify the test results.

    You also need to tackle the algae problem... which means LOTS of chlorine, cleaning, and patience...

    pool-school/defeating_algae

    Because a higher CYA will make fighting the algae a little bit harder, I would do a partial drain first, refill, test, then start adding bleach.

    I believe at high chlorine levels, the PH tests will become inaccurate, so you might need to wait until you defeat the algae before you tackle the TA problem. Since you have a vinyl liner, I think it's ok to tackle the algae first and then the TA.. some pool surfaces like plaster, high TA or PH can cause more problems.

    Just my .02c. Keep posting test results and updates and the great folks at this forum will provide lots and lots of guidance.

    Good luck!
    28K IG Vinyl lined pool - 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    Hayward DE 60sqft filter; Polaris 280 vacuum with booster pump

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Hi, Ramona,

    Welcome to the forum. Yes, we can help you get your pool sparkling. Your single biggest issue is chlorine mismanagement. Chlorine is the thing that protects you from bacteria, germs, etc. in the pool and it is the thing that kills algae. In doing it's job, chlorine gets consumed. The more algae and germs it has to kill, the quicker it is consumed.

    You do not have nearly enough chlorine in your pool. Before we get you started on curing that, we need to get some of the CYA out of your pool....you have too much of that.

    CYA protects the chlorine from being consumed by the Sun but when you get too much (over about 70ppm in your case) it renders the chlorine ineffective.

    I would suggest the following steps.......

    1. Yes, you need to have a good test kit in your possesion. Do not rely on the pool store or test strips or any kit that does not have an FAS/DPD chlorine test.........they simply make it too hard to manage your pool. The two suggested on this forum are the Taylor K-2006 (not the K-2005) and the TF-100 that I make. Others will comment on the differences.

    2. You need to reduce your CYA. You can only do that by draining about 20% of your pool to get you CYA down below 90. 80 is okay, 70 is a little better. (Wait on your own test kit before you do this. Pool stores and strips cannot measure CYA as accurately as you will and you may not need to drain at all.)

    3. Once your CYA is manageable. We'll advise you to shock your pool. Shocking is not a one-time application. Rather, it is a multi-day process of massive doses of chlorine coupled with brushing and filtering. At the end of the shock process, your pool will sparkle....promise.

    Read up on the basics up in Pool School, particularly the ABC's of pool water chemistry and how to shock your pool.

    I know you will be anxious to start tomorrow. You certainly can but it's a little difficult without the ability to test for the very high levels of chlorine you will use.

    What you can start doing, is to drain off some of your pool water and refill to get the CYA down. It's the only way to do it. You don't want to drain too much at once but 20-25% won't hurt the pool and should be relatively easy. You can also begin to stock up on Clorox (chlorine). You will be surprised at how much you will need. 20 of the very large jugs will not be too much and possibly may not be enough.

    Post back with questions.

    PS - we'll help you adjust the other parameters after your pool is crystal clear. They are good enough for now.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Hi, again, Ramona,

    All three of us posted at the same time and all three saying almost exactly the same thing. You can tell there's lots of nice people here to help you get your pool clear.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    stop using the pucks if you haven't already. an swg pool should never need pucks unless you want to add a little cya, which you don't. also, can you tell us the whole name and brand of the bleach you're using? calcium is irrelevant in a vinyl pool as you may have already read (unless it gets too high). you're also confusing ph and alkalinity. keep reading all of the chemistry articles in pool-school/
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Hi, and welcome!
    I know it is a lot to take in at once, but you have been given good advice here.... If you follow it, you will have a Trouble Free Pool in no time flat!

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    So with not much time to spare yesterday, I was not able to drain any water out yet. But last night I did put in 5 gallons + 5 - 1.4 gallons + 2 96 oz of bleach in my pool. (5 gal. = 5.25% others 6%) And when I got up this morning and checked it was looking better. I can see the bottom in the deep end. But the water is still green tint. I only checked the pH which was 7.5 and the TA was 240. I did order the test kit yesterday but it was after 2:00 so I guess it will be a few days before I get it. I ordered the TF 100 from duraleigh. Not only will I be getting one of the very best test kits, I will also be helping someone who is helping me I really like that idea. I am still areating the pool. But it has been rain most of the day. I'm hoping that will somehow dilute my CYA. I have stopped using the pucks. Maybe tomorrow after church I'll be able to drain it down a bit and refill. Other than that I'm just going to wait for the test kit. Unless it gets really green again. I'll put in some more bleach. But after putting almost 14 gal last night and not really a lot of change. I'll try to just be patient and wait for the test kit. I was using the grocery store brand "Parade". I haven't seen anything mentioned about the different brands just the different strength. So please advise me if this brand is not good. It did seem fresh since I didn't get it off the shelf. I got it in the box before they put it on the shelf. I did see that dollar store bleach tends to be old and that is not good.

    So tomorrow I will hopefully get to drain it down some and replace some of the water. I will repost results after I recieve my new test kit. Thanks to every one for the help. I am so GLAD I found this site.
    25k gal in ground true L shape, vinyl, sand filter 100 gpm flow that holds 600 lbs of sand, 1 1/2 hp Hayward motor, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, diving board, 3 ft bottom of L shape - 8 ft. deep end, Delzone TrioPure SWG, Kreepy that is about deads. Removable safety fence.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Congratulations on ordering your TF100.


    Quote Originally Posted by Misjudge
    I am still areating the pool.
    Why are you aerating your pool? Your pH is perfect!
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    When I stopped aerating the pH dropped to 7.2 so I started aerating again. If you think it will do more harm than good, please advise me. Will aerating help the CYA in any way???

    Thanks,
    Ramona
    25k gal in ground true L shape, vinyl, sand filter 100 gpm flow that holds 600 lbs of sand, 1 1/2 hp Hayward motor, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, diving board, 3 ft bottom of L shape - 8 ft. deep end, Delzone TrioPure SWG, Kreepy that is about deads. Removable safety fence.

  11. Back To Top    #11
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    water replacement is the only thing that changes cya.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Misjudge
    When I stopped aerating the pH dropped to 7.2 so I started aerating again. If you think it will do more harm than good, please advise me. Will aerating help the CYA in any way???

    Thanks,
    Ramona
    Well, aerating won't do anything with the CYA. It will just raise your pH, as you already know.

    Looking at your numbers and the fact that you have a SWG, I don't know why your pH would drop.

    Soemone who knows will chime in soon.

    ETA: Have you been adding Muriatic Acid to lower your TA?
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  13. Back To Top    #13
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Misjudge
    But last night I did put in 5 gallons + 5 - 1.4 gallons + 2 96 oz of bleach in my pool. (5 gal. = 5.25% others 6%) And when I got up this morning and checked it was looking better. I can see the bottom in the deep end. But the water is still green tint. Unless it gets really green again. I'll put in some more bleach. But after putting almost 14 gal last night and not really a lot of change. I'll try to just be patient and wait for the test kit. So tomorrow I will hopefully get to drain it down some and replace some of the water. I will repost results after I recieve my new test kit. Thanks to every one for the help.
    unfortunately that 14 gallons is a waste if you're not going to keep adding any more. it's just going to get consumed if it hasn't already and you're back to where you started. with your cya level being potentially too high you need to decide if you want to start draining now or wait for the kit, but in the mean time your shotgun approach to adding bleach isn't going to be effective. and since you have reason to believe your cya is too high, I would start draining and not add any more bleach until the kit comes.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    On Monday I dropped the water level a few inches. Maybe 3. Then Monday night I added 15 more gallons bleach. When I looked at the pool this morning the water was still pretty much green. Tested the chlorine and it barely had a yellow tint. But my pH was still 7.5 (well I have to be happy about something) So using the guess method I figured I had not changed the CYA level enough for the chlorine to work. So I dropped the water level almost 12 inches today. Then I refilled. After sundown I put another 15 gallons of bleach. Even though my attempts with the bleach are not completely working it does seem to be keeping the green from going NEON. My test kit will not be here until Thursday. So I figured if I get up in the morning and the water is still green I will drop it another 12 inches. (using my guess method) sbluhm and duraleigh had suggested a 20 - 25% drain. But sorry guys I have no way of judging that amount. I am draining it with the pool pump set to waste. I don't have any other pump to get the water out. If this is not good PLEASE advise me.

    Thanks to all for the help!
    Ramona
    25k gal in ground true L shape, vinyl, sand filter 100 gpm flow that holds 600 lbs of sand, 1 1/2 hp Hayward motor, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, diving board, 3 ft bottom of L shape - 8 ft. deep end, Delzone TrioPure SWG, Kreepy that is about deads. Removable safety fence.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Sounds like a plan.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    You're doing the right thing! Draining water to get the CYA lower is going to make a huge difference in your ability to fight the algae.

    I'm assuming you have a bottom drain that will continue to suck water even after the water level is below the skimmers. That's ok, you just want to watch the pump and make sure it doesn't loose prime.

    So you've already dropped about 15 inches of water, that's great! If the drain/refill process isn't a big deal for your pool, it would be great to do some more, otherwise, wait until the test kit arrives and re-test CYA (or test with your other kit or pool store?). If the new CYA level is over 80, it's probably best to keep draining to get it lower.

    If it's in the ballpark, you should reference the CYA/Chlorine chart, find the right shock level for your CYA level, and start shocking to that level (remember to use liquid chlorine only):

    Shocking:
    1. Measure the FC level
    2. Add enough chlorine to bring FC up to shock level
    3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 as frequently as practical, as often as once per hour, and not less than twice a day, until:
    1. CC is 0.5 or lower;
    2. An overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less;
    3. And, if you don't have a FAS-DPD test kit, the water is clear.

    Getting the CYA down to 50 or less makes this process a lot easier, but it's doable if it's a bit higher.

    You are going to be very happy with your ability to control FC when you get the CYA down!

    Good luck!
    28K IG Vinyl lined pool - 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    Hayward DE 60sqft filter; Polaris 280 vacuum with booster pump

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by sbluhm
    Getting the CYA down to 50 or less makes this process a lot easier, but it's doable if it's a bit higher.
    OP has a SWG and recommended CYA level is 70 to 80.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    OP has an SWG, no need to go lower than 70 on the CYA. Yes she may need more bleach for shocking, but it's either that or pay for more CYA to bring it back up into range. I'd just lower to 70-80 and call it a day.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    This morning when I checked the chlorine with my HTH test kit it read 5. (TF100 will be here tomorrow) My pH is still 7.5 and total alk was still 250. Couldn't figure out why nothing else changed since I dropped 15 inches and added back well water and rain water helped. The deep is still dark green. I could see green settled to the bottom. In the shallow I could see the bottom so I vac by hand then it started raining so I put the near dead Kreepy in. Since it is rainning today and I did have chlorine show on the test kit, I will wait until the TF100 comes in tomorrow to get a good reading to see if I need to drop the water again due to the CYA level. I have no more test drop solution with the HTH kit to even attempt a reading. So I'm guessing I may have lowered the CYA some since I still had chlorine showing this morning.
    25k gal in ground true L shape, vinyl, sand filter 100 gpm flow that holds 600 lbs of sand, 1 1/2 hp Hayward motor, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, diving board, 3 ft bottom of L shape - 8 ft. deep end, Delzone TrioPure SWG, Kreepy that is about deads. Removable safety fence.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    VoR's Avatar
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    Re: Just found the site and am converting to BBB

    Have you looked at this site yet? Could help with your Kreepy:

    http://www.poolcenter.com/cleaners_kreepy_helpfile.htm
    9000 Gallon Gunite Pool
    Pentair 1/2 HP Whisperflo Pump
    Pentair DE Filter
    Kreepy Krauly

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