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Thread: New Pool

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    New Pool

    We are beginning the process of starting a pool project. We are planning on having the pool built in Phoenix at our second home, having never owned a pool before I am learning quite a bit and I am finding this site immensely helpful. The pool design we are looking at is approximately 400 sqft/10,000 gallons, free form shape with levels from 3 to 5 feet depth, in ground gunite pool with pebble tec finish. Upon discussions with different contractors I am getting different opinions and I am hoping to get some advice from the more experienced on this site.

    Regarding the chlorination system, should I go with an inline with ozone or a swg system. some builders say the salt water system is to hard to maintain (elevates ph which has to be constantly adjusted) to corroding/eating away pool decks and one builder said due to the phoenix hard water the cell clogs up fast and requires replacement quite often. I am looking for the least costly system for chemical replacement as well as the one that will require the least amount of maintenance, what are your recommendations?

    Is a pool vacuum adequate or should I go with an in floor cleaning system? What equipment manufacturer would you recommend?

    What type of circulation pump should I go with, 2hp and upgrade to a 2 speed? What equipment manufacturer would you recommend?

    What type of filter and size do you recommend? What manufacturer would you recommend?

    For decking would you go with acrylic or another product (travertine, etc)?

    I am looking at solar heating in order to extend the pool season, would the 2 hp pump be adequate for a roof top system(bungalow house)? What type/manufacturer would you recommend? If there is anyone in arizona with a solar heating system, how long are you able to extend your pool season?

    If there is anything else you would recommend, please add it with your suggestions.

    Thanks In Advance
    Greg

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    launboy's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool

    My responses are in Bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by newpoolinphoenix
    ...I am hoping to get some advice from the more experienced on this site.

    Well You've come to the right place! Welcome to TFP

    Regarding the chlorination system, should I go with an inline with ozone or a swg system. some builders say the salt water system is to hard to maintain (elevates ph which has to be constantly adjusted) to corroding/eating away pool decks and one builder said due to the phoenix hard water the cell clogs up fast and requires replacement quite often. I am looking for the least costly system for chemical replacement as well as the one that will require the least amount of maintenance, what are your recommendations?

    I would stay away from Ozone, it's not needed in most outdoor pools and you will still have to add chlorine along with it, via Liquid chlorine(bleach) or a SWG. If you don't want to deal with the hassle of lugging around bleach bottles, than a SWG would definitely be a good choice. While it is true that the PH will tend to creep up, this can be reduced and sometimes eliminated by lowering your TA(total alkalinity). While it is true that salt will corrode metal faster than a non-salt pool, this can also be eliminated by choosing High Quality materials/products. Using the right type of stone and sealing the decking will also reduce the deterioration signifigantly. I can't comment on the cell clogging up from hard water because I don't have experience with that.

    Is a pool vacuum adequate or should I go with an in floor cleaning system? What equipment manufacturer would you recommend?

    Can't comment on this either as I just use a manual vacuum in my AG pool.

    What type of circulation pump should I go with, 2hp and upgrade to a 2 speed? What equipment manufacturer would you recommend?

    2HP is probably much to big for your pool unless you are planning any special water features. A 1 HP 2 speed pump would be a good size, or even an Intelliflo. The latter will cost much more initally but will pay for itself quickly in electric savings, esp. if your rates are high. Of course, I reccomend 2" plumbing with watever pump you choose. Also, make sure the PB makes seperate runs to the pump for each skimmer and the main drain, this is better for flow control and will allow you to keep the system running of you ever have trouble with one of the lines in the future.

    What type of filter and size do you recommend? What manufacturer would you recommend?

    Personally, I'd reccomend a sand filter because of the ease of maintenance. I'm a bit biased though as that's what I have myself. My close second would be a cartridge filter, especially with a saltwater pool because you never have to backwash and add fresh water, which can mess up the pool chemistry. What ever type of filter you go with, amke sure you OVERSIZE it!!! The bigger the better(to a point) because it means longer times between cleanings.

    For decking would you go with acrylic or another product (travertine, etc)?

    Can't really comment on decking other than to consider the hardness of the stone if you choose to use it and to seal whatever you get to protect it from the salt.

    I am looking at solar heating in order to extend the pool season, would the 2 hp pump be adequate for a roof top system(bungalow house)? What type/manufacturer would you recommend? If there is anyone in arizona with a solar heating system, how long are you able to extend your pool season?

    See my comments above about pumps. Adding solar makes the Intelliflo an even smarter pump choice because you can adjust the flow so your panels get the optimum GPM for maximum efficiency.

    If there is anything else you would recommend, please add it with your suggestions.

    Don't forget to get a Top Notch test kit such as the TF 100 from TFtestkits.net as knowing your chemistry levels is the most important part of maintaining a Trouble Free Pool!

    Thanks In Advance
    Greg
    HTH,
    Adam
    18' x 42" Intex Easyset Pool, with 16' x 52" deep end in the middle. Approx. 5500 Gal.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1 HP, 100# Jacuzzi Brand Sand Filter(Piped underground so it looks nice) 8)
    3 - 2' x 20' Solar Pool Heater Panels(roof mounted)
    Goin' on 9 summers...NOBODY thought it would last this long.
    Buried Portable Spa sharing pumps and water with pool (Almost complete project)

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    Re: New Pool

    thanks alot Adam, I appreciate your comments.

    Cheers
    Greg

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    launboy's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool

    This thread talks a bit about the Chlorine vs. Ozone issue.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/chlor...ne-t15548.html

    P.S. Don't forget pics when the build starts, we love pics here!

    Adam
    18' x 42" Intex Easyset Pool, with 16' x 52" deep end in the middle. Approx. 5500 Gal.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1 HP, 100# Jacuzzi Brand Sand Filter(Piped underground so it looks nice) 8)
    3 - 2' x 20' Solar Pool Heater Panels(roof mounted)
    Goin' on 9 summers...NOBODY thought it would last this long.
    Buried Portable Spa sharing pumps and water with pool (Almost complete project)

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    Re: New Pool

    When you say 2nd home do you mean you live out of state and are planning on wintering here in Phoenix? If so, unless you have some solid people who are going to care for your pool daily or at least a few times a week, I'd advise against having a pool put in. Summers are brutal here on unattended pools.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

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    Re: New Pool

    SWG and a timer would be a must if you will be away from your pool frequently, I can leave for a few days and not worry about my pool turning green
    20 X 40, 28000 gal IG cement bottom, steel sides, vinyl liner, Pentair 4X160 pump, sand filter, SWG, Titan heat pump, coluorlogic and fiber optic. concrete-exposed aggregate deck
    1 skimmer, main drain, 4 returns ( 2 in stairs ) JEWEL LIKE WATER thanks to TFP!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool

    2 speed pump. SWG.

    The issues the builder mentioned can be kept in check. Using an inline chlorinator means eventually the CYA will build up too high and water replacement is still necessary. Sunlight does the same thing as Ozone, for free. It helps breakdown CC's. In a properly chlorinated outdoor pool, CC's are rarely an issue.

    Having high CH in the water is still an issue even if you don't have an SWG - if the PH got too high you could still be at risk for scale regardless of which system you used.

    What I would suggest, is you have the inline chlorinator installed, which will be good for the first year of the pool - new plaster curing, and all. The pucks are acidic and will help keep the PH in check while the plaster is curing. The pucks also raise CYA, so once the CYA is the 70-80 range, you can add salt and start using the SWG.

    As long as you keep your TA at 70 or so, the PH should be stable, and as long as the PH is kept at 7.6, which should be easy enough to do the second year in, scale won't be an issue. (you use Muratic Acid to keep the PH/TA in check.)

    For your pool, since it's a second home, the convenience of an SWG can't be beat.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New Pool

    Thanks Frustrated, that sounds like a great idea, I'll specify that to the PB's. Buggs, yes we are out of state so I would be planning on contracting a company to do weekly/bi-monthly maintenance, whatever will be required.

    What do you recommend for a minimum maintenance program on a pool.

    Does anyone recommend a good PB in the Phoenix area?

    thanks
    Greg

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool

    Here is the basic schedule from Pool School:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-..._care_schedule

    Your PS could combine the daily and weekly lists...with the SWG hopefully functioning properly weekly should be good, IDK if bimonthly is pushing it. For the first year, while plaster is curing, weekly is a must.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    launboy's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool

    Another thing to look into if you're not going to be there often and you go with the SWG is an Acid Feed system. This will ensure your PH stays in check when you're not there to check it.

    Adam
    18' x 42" Intex Easyset Pool, with 16' x 52" deep end in the middle. Approx. 5500 Gal.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1 HP, 100# Jacuzzi Brand Sand Filter(Piped underground so it looks nice) 8)
    3 - 2' x 20' Solar Pool Heater Panels(roof mounted)
    Goin' on 9 summers...NOBODY thought it would last this long.
    Buried Portable Spa sharing pumps and water with pool (Almost complete project)

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: New Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by newpoolinphoenix
    Thanks Frustrated, that sounds like a great idea, I'll specify that to the PB's. Buggs, yes we are out of state so I would be planning on contracting a company to do weekly/bi-monthly maintenance, whatever will be required.

    What do you recommend for a minimum maintenance program on a pool.

    Does anyone recommend a good PB in the Phoenix area?

    thanks
    Greg
    Shasta and Paddock have both been around a long long time. I have a Shasta pool as does my Daughter but we didn't have them built. My pool is about 29 years old now. My daughter's pool is around 25 years old. Both are sound, knock on wood. We both also have infloor cleaning systems and I'd have to say I sure thank the original homeowner for that added expense. I love mine. They both could use a replastering, but that is mostly because of poor care over the years before we owned them.
    My brother had Paddock build his about 20 years ago and he was pleased.

    There are and have been many pool companies come and go over the years. There is a high end custom pool builder called Mossman Brothers that has been around a long time. But I don't run with the high end gang, so I couldn't tell you anything more about them.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: New Pool

    Thanks alot for the advice I have been learning alot of this site. Another concern i have is the construction of my pool, I understand where I am located in phoenix (avondale) doesn't have serious soil expansion issues, at least one thing the builders I've talked to can agree on . One builder wants the deck not tied into the pool shell, the other two want to tie the deck in with rebar to the pool shell. What do the people on this site recommend, or any experiences with either?

    Additionally one builder highly recommends gunite saying shotcrete doesn't get applied properly, they also recommend additional rebar at the bottom and top (stress points). Anyone have opinions?

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    polyvue's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by newpoolinphoenix
    One builder wants the deck not tied into the pool shell, the other two want to tie the deck in with rebar to the pool shell. What do the people on this site recommend, or any experiences with either?

    Additionally one builder highly recommends gunite saying shotcrete doesn't get applied properly, they also recommend additional rebar at the bottom and top (stress points). Anyone have opinions?
    On your first question, all I can provide is an opinion -- and it's based on the reading I did in the year prior to contracting our pool (completed Aug 2007.) It's this: the consensus seems to be that the pool shell (bond beam ) and the deck should float independently. When I interviewed pool builders only 1 (one) out of a half-dozen had a different take. Most I spoke with were adamant that tying them together was a bad idea (when the deck heaves it could break the bond beam.)

    2nd Question. The additional rebar should be specified by the structural engineer employed by the pool builders in your area. In Sacramento there's only one engineering firm used by 40+ pool builders, so it's not really a question that needs to be addressed. My impression was that different PBs talk up the additional re-bar and how it's "hand tied" etc for marketing purposes. The reality (here) is that there's no difference between them -- all of them are building to code.

    For a possibly informative (but definitely amusing) take on the gunite vs. shotcrete controversey, check out this post.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: New Pool

    So Greg - what builder did you end up going with? Shasta? Paddock? CA Pools? Do tell.

    We are in the planning phase (Goodyear, AZ) and trying to figure out who to go with...

    thx.
    RawhideKid
    Phoenix, AZ (Goodyear actually)
    Pool finally complete!!! IG, 40,635 gallons w/2080 gallon spa with 16 jets. Pool is 40x21 ft with 10 ft deep end; two baja steps
    Pentair Cartridge filter - 520 SQ. PebbleSheen interior. 2 Pentair VS pumps. Pentair Intellichlor SWG
    4 deck jets, 2 bubblers, fake rock grotto/waterfall with wet steps. 3 surrounding half-pergola's with misters in future
    Sunken covered ramada with cabinets, fridge, and wood fireplace. (soon to have big screen TV)
    Basically, 14 years of planning on how to survive this blistering AZ summer!!! WAHOOOOO!!!!!!

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