New VSP Pool Pump Advice

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praz

praz

0
May 4, 2017
14
Surprise, AZ
Hello,

My pool repair guy said that the main seal in my old stalwart Hayward Super II 2HP pump needs to be replaced. He wants $110, and I can buy already rebuilt Hayward Super II 2HP pumps for $200, but I'm inclined to go ahead and put that money toward swapping it out for a VSP pump. I do believe I could rebuild (which is actually just replacing various seals and other use-parts) myself, but I think this is a good opportunity to move to a VS pump and save on electric costs. I think I calculated that my Hayward costs about $185/mo to run 8 hours/day!

Unfortunately, I don't know/understand how to properly size a new VSP to either my equipment or the pool size (or whatever it is that drives the size of the new pump). My details are in the signature plan, if that helps. To clarify, the listed "Waterfall" is a separate feature from the spa-to-pool spillover/waterfall. I'm trying to get a feel for what size VSP pump I need (or what I'd expect to pay), without under (or over) sizing it.

I'm also looking for input as to whether this is something I should have someone else install. There may be requirements in getting the $150 APS rebate that a "professional" calibrate the system. I do feel comfortable installing it myself, and I think I read about alternatives to having it professionally calibrated that would still entitle me to the rebate...the question is whether the hassle of installing and pursuing some alternate rebate route would be worth it.

My local Leslie's has free install on what I presume (based on price) is a Jacuzzi J-VSP150. Complete after tax, APS rebate, programming, calibrating, etc., it will be just over $1350. Seems a pretty hefty surcharge over the price of the pump, which is listed at around $900. I'm fairly comfortable doing the install myself; though I've not done one before, I've worked with computers and PVC, so...

In summary, 2 questions.

1. How do I know what (power? speed?) VSP is suitable to replace my Hayward Super II 2HP?
2. Should I consider the Leslie's offer, or is this something I should do myself?
I'd also love to hear from AZ pool owners with actual APS rebate experience on a VSP pump, too.

Thanks!

- Paul
 
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I replaced my Hayward Super II 2hp main pump with the Pentair Intelliflo 011018 pump. If you have any automation or are contemplating one, you may want to stick with Hayward. But if not most think the pump I bought is the "gold standard" in VS pumps. The nice thing about a VS pump is you can buy a powerful one and then adjust the speed to provide savings by only using just what you need for any task. So sizing isn't so important, as long as it's big enough. The Intelliflo 011018 is a 3hp pump. If you are planing DIY, one can be had online for under $850 with no tax and free shipping. That price is before any kind of rebates. You should know that if you want a warranty from Pentair they will want to see a receipt for "professional installation". Since they don't define that, it can be a plumber, electrician, pool service, etc. So if you have a friend who can check your work and give you a receipt, it's worth a few dollars and a few beers. It can get you your warrranty, and may qualify you for rebates.
 
chiefwej said:
I replaced my Hayward Super II 2hp main pump with the Pentair Intelliflo 011018 pump. If you have any automation or are contemplating one, you may want to stick with Hayward. But if not most think the pump I bought is the "gold standard" in VS pumps. The nice thing about a VS pump is you can buy a powerful one and then adjust the speed to provide savings by only using just what you need for any task. So sizing isn't so important, as long as it's big enough. The Intelliflo 011018 is a 3hp pump. If you are planing DIY, one can be had online for under $850 with no tax and free shipping. That price is before any kind of rebates. You should know that if you want a warranty from Pentair they will want to see a receipt for "professional installation". Since they don't define that, it can be a plumber, electrician, pool service, etc. So if you have a friend who can check your work and give you a receipt, it's worth a few dollars and a few beers. It can get you your warrranty, and may qualify you for rebates.
Click to expand...

Sizing it important. Most older pools are built with smaller diameter pipe. A 3HP pump in most cases if overkill. A 3" suction line is required for the flow of water it produces. Some pools I have seen have a 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" suction line and as little as 1" return line - too small for the flow.
 
As pooldesigner said, the infrastructure is important. Why by the turbo diesel engine for your truck if you only have 1/2 ton bed?

Go to pool school and read-up on pumps, waterflow, etc. And, if you are going with a variable speed pump, I would NOT GET A HAYWARD !!!!! Go intelliflo or buy the appropriate two-speed pump sized for your pool...Stay away from pool stores unless you really know and trust someone. Seek other pool users in your nborhood or friends and find out who they trust, or as stated, a good plumber/electrician, that both/either have pool pump experience. Make sure you get receipt.
 
Paul,

A 3 HP single-speed pump would be "overkill", but a Variable Speed 3 HP is totally different. They really should be called Variable Horse Power pumps... You only use the HP that you need.

You can normally run a larger HP pump at a slower speed and still move the same amount of water moved by a smaller VS HP pump at a higher speed.. And, it is more economical to run the larger pump.

As far as pipe size... if you plan to run your new VS pump at full speed, then it would not make sense to buy a VS pump at all... But at low speed, where you would normally run 99% of the time, then a large VS pump will work just fine.

I have two rent house, with 1.5" plumbing and IntelliFlo pumps, that run most of the time at 1,200 RPM.. Both pools have DE filters and the filter pressure is about 3 PSI.. Not exactly what I would call an "over pressure issue" :p

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
 
On the Intelliflo you can even set an absolute limit, so that the pump will not exceed that rpm. The pump will stay below that rpm at all times, even when priming. When programming the pump, it will observe the preset limit, unless you go into the sub menu and reset the speed limit. This insures you wouldn't over power or stress the plumbing system.

The OP has a spa so is very likely to need and use a significant amount of the power of a pump like the 3hp Intelliflo. The beauty of a pump like this is that during the 98% of the time when you don't need that power, this pump can effectively be run, while consuming as little as 100 watts (or even less in some cases). Who wouldn't want a pump that's more power when they need it and more efficient always.

The comparison of a large motor in a smal truck isn't valid. A motor like that consumes fuel at a high rate at all times. Here you have one that can adapt. It can act like a small 1.6 liter engine or a large high power diesel. It can be perfectly be matched to any task at hand.

The only real downside, (if there is one) is the upfront cost of the pump. You are talking about approximately $1000 vs a couple hundred for a single speed. But, that cost difference is so negligible in the total price of a pool build that it is irresponsible for any pool builder to not recommend a VS pump. The only reason I can think of is that's a couple hundred dollars profit, and the builder's concern is the bottom line, not the cost of operating the pool.
 
Thanks for the input, everyone.


To clarify:
chiefwej said:
If you have any automation or are contemplating one, you may want to stick with Hayward.
Click to expand...

Automation? Beyond simple timed on/off, I presume? I thought all VSP's were programmable with several time and RPM's/wattage settings (not sure exactly how it works).

An additional piece of information about my pool. My pool guy says that a VSP would not help me, because of the amount of vegetation, etc. I get in my pool, he says I'd have to run the VSP pretty much full speed/same time as my 2HP Hayward. He says running it a lower RPM won't clean my pool. Obviously if that is true it would negate a good percentage of the energy savings I'm hoping/counting on. Does that ring true? Has anyone put in a VSP and then found that they had to run it close to full speed/same amount of time as their single speed to keep up with the filtration needs?

One more bit of info: My PVC is 2".

Leslie's wants me to replace my 2HP with a 1.5HP VSP, FYI.

TIA,

- Paul
 
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praz,

By automation we mean a control system that automatically controls most of your pool functions and often allows you to turn things on/off with your phone or pc... It turns the valves from the Spa position to the pool position etc...

I'm not sure what speed has to do with skimming.. either your skimmers are working or not. Low flow does not mean the water does not go through the skimmer.

I admit that I don't get much "vegetation" in my pool, but I can't really tell much difference in the skimmer operation with my pump running slower or faster.

Your pool guy seems in need of some serious mental help... :p

Even if you had to ramp your pump up in speed to help the skimming, which I doubt, it would not be to full speed and it would only be a few minutes at a time..

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
 
An automation system can open close valves, as well as control speed of pump. Depending on the sophistication of the system you can turn on a spa, set the temperature, control water features, turn pool lights on and off, etc. either from a remote or in some cases from a smart phone.

I personally don't have or want automation, beyond a fairly simple solar controller. My VS pump is programmed to come on at a fairly high speed (still 1/2 the power of the old single speed) to run my infloor cleaning system, then it drops down to a lower speed to support the SWG in chlorinating the pool, if heat is called for and available at the solar panels, the solar control ramps the speed up to a preset and opens the valve, when finished, returns control to the pump program. After 4pm the pump continues to run at a very slow speed (using only 100 watts) until 10 pm, providing extra filtration. And if the pool ever needs it, one tap on the "quick clean" button on the pump will run a program of a higher speed for a specific duration (all pre selected). All this is done with the timer built into the pump and my SolarTouch control for the solar. No automation system needed.

I would have a VS pump, even if there weren't significant savings on electricity. It allows me to custom tailor a speed and duration for any task.

I don't think you would be happy with the 1.5 hp VS pump. With a spa there are times when you want lots of power. The Pentair Intelliflo 011018 3hp VS pump sells for $849 online, no tax and free shipping. Leslie's won't offer that one, but the more expensive new top-of-the-line pump for a lot more money. You could either DIY or look for an independent source to supply and install or just install that pump.
 

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A 3HP Intelliflo pumps approx. 130 GPM at 60 TDH. The velocity in suction pipe should not exceed 8 FPS and in the return pipe 10 FPS. 130 GPM in a 2" pipe is 13.28 FPS.. in a 1-1/2" pipe it's 23.6 FPS..

As someone who designs and engineers swimming pools for a living and this is what I do all day long I have to say - a 3HP pump should never be used with such small diameter pipe. This is also in California Energy code by the way.
 
The max rpm can be set on the Intelliflo so that it doesn't operate are 3hp. I have mine set to max of 3000 rpm and I never run mine above 2500. Normally I run it at 1100 rpm (150 watts) and 1950 rpm (550 watts). Also, the max priming speed can be set.
 
The Intelliflo, as someone said, could be called a variable hp pump. When setting it up, you can even chose a maximum speed setting. The pump will not exceed the maximum set and the user cannot even program it to a higher speed, unless and until you go back into the setup menu to change it.

So, why do I have such a big pump if I don't use all of its power? Well, at 2,800 rpm (which is about the highest speed I ever use), it consumes approximately 1200 watts of power. It's also the most versatile and the most dependable of the VS pumps, and the 011018 has been around a while, so it really has a track record.

BTW: My car has an engine that puts out 325 hp, and I'm pretty sure I don't use all of that either.
 
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