My "Giant Pond" is Almost a Real Pool! And Some Questions...

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WaterWoman

WaterWoman

0
May 18, 2008
139
Sacramento, CA area
Here's a link to my original thread about my pool: Help! Giant Pond That's Supposed to Be a Pool?

I have pics that I'm adding to a webpage for you guys that I'll post here soon. We are very near to filling her up and swimming! :-D I will share the entire process with you all -- I promise! -- but am waiting until I can show it to you from start to finish.

In the meantime, I have some questions I'm hoping someone here can help answer before we fire up the equipment a couple of days from now.

This is a "vintage" pool, probably circa 1960s, and it's had several owners, none of whom we can talk to. So, there are things inside the pool that, being pool newbies, well, we just don't know what they are. We're hoping you guys can help us figure it out.

There are three "fixtures" along one side of the pool. One is an oval-shaped hole which seems to be an old pipe outlet and is slanted to direct it toward the shallow end of the pool. The second is a newer PVC pipe that is capped. It appears to be perhaps re-plumbed, but a part of the original pool due to the metal rim around it that is embedded in the plaster. The third is another newer PVC pipe that extends into the pool. It seems to have been added later. We are assuming that some, if not all, of these things are returns, but we are unsure. Here are some photos.

#1 - This is a shot along the wall of all three gizzies (ignore the "hole" in the tile--that was where they had a rope attached at one point):
Pool28a.jpg


#2 - This is the oval "hole":
Pool28c.jpg


#3 - These are the two newer PVC thingies:
Pool28b.jpg


#4 - This is the middle PVC pipe. (The blue stuff on it is just a smear of paint.) It appears to be a part of the original plumbing but updated? It is capped. We don't know why. We are wondering if we should try to remove this cap, or if it should be left alone. No clue. Thoughts? Suggestions? Advice?
Pool28d.jpg


#5 & 6: This is the PVC pipe that's sticking out from the wall. It appears to have been added, due to the plaster patching around it. We have no idea what it is or why it is sticking out from the side. Again: Thoughts? Suggestions? Advice?
Pool28e.jpg


Pool28f.jpg


Any advice about these fixtures would be much appreciated!

There's one other thing we're curious about, too. Underneath the skimmer box is a small grate. The "pool guys" we were working with (who flaked out on us) said it was some kind of safeguard for the skimmer -- like if the water level got below the skimmer box, the skimmer would draw through there. Anyone ever heard of this? Here's a photo of that:

#7 - Grate under skimmer:
Pool28g.jpg


We're about ready to fill the pool and start the equipment in just a day or so, so any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!
 
Perhaps a post of the plumbing by the equipment may shed some light on some of it. Seeing the valves and pipes, so many of the folks on here are real good at giving educated guesses on what might be going to those "gizzies".

I'm definitely not a plumbing savvy person but my SWAG is perhaps the one that sits out is a return piped in for a water feature or maybe a pressure side cleaner. The other, bigger one might be a vac port or something. The grated one is probably just what those fellows told you. My skimmer has 2 pipes right in the bottom of it. One goes directly to the pump and the other goes to the main drain. The plain hole could be just a stubbed out pipe - I have 2 in my pool that go nowhere, but I can see the stubbed end just on the other side of my deck. They are in odd places, so I have no idea what they were originally intended to someday be used for, but I assume the original builder/owner may have had something planned for them in the future.
 
Buggsw said:
Perhaps a post of the plumbing by the equipment may shed some light on some of it. Seeing the valves and pipes, so many of the folks on here are real good at giving educated guesses on what might be going to those "gizzies".

I'm definitely not a plumbing savvy person but my SWAG is perhaps the one that sits out is a return piped in for a water feature or maybe a pressure side cleaner. The other, bigger one might be a vac port or something. The grated one is probably just what those fellows told you. My skimmer has 2 pipes right in the bottom of it. One goes directly to the pump and the other goes to the main drain. The plain hole could be just a stubbed out pipe - I have 2 in my pool that go nowhere, but I can see the stubbed end just on the other side of my deck. They are in odd places, so I have no idea what they were originally intended to someday be used for, but I assume the original builder/owner may have had something planned for them in the future.
Click to expand...
Hi Buggs! Thanks for the reply. And good suggestion. There are photos of the equipment on my original thread. This link should jump to that post: post47923.html#p47923 We are adding a new dual speed motor (will have some questions about the wiring on the switch later today), but other than that, and being cleaner and neater, it looks the same.

The pool guys had mentioned they thought the one that extends into the pool might be for a vacuum, which would be cool, but I admit to knowing nothing about that, either. (Yet!) If that is true, then it is also a return, correct? We are most concerned about the one that's capped. If the only functioning return is the one that would also serve as a vac port, then that seems like not quite enough for a pool this size. But not knowing why it might be capped, we are hesitant to try to remove the cap without some advice from someone more knowledgeable than we are (which doesn't take much).

It's a real test of the imagination with older pools to try and figure out what previous owners had intended, isn't it!?! We call this the "wonder house." We are constantly saying (not just with the pool, but with just about everything we try to repair around here: "Hmmm... WONDER why they did it like that?" :D
 
OK, I found the manual for my skimmer (Sta-Rite U-3), and that grate underneath in the pool wall evidently IS an equalizer. However, after looking at the manual, now I have more questions.

Here's the manual: http://www.starite.com/pdf/39501-0028(12-23-03).PDF

Here are some pictures of my skimmer. It looks like it's all there. Or at least mostly all there?

#1 - w/cover on
Skimmer1.jpg


#2 - cover off, showing skimmer basket (which is not sitting straight due to what I'm questioning below)
Skimmer2.jpg


#3 - basket removed, showing float valve (which is also not sitting straight for same reason)
Skimmer3.jpg


#4 - bottom of skimmer - showing one open pipe, one plugged pipe
Skimmer4.jpg


The reason the basket and float valve are sitting crooked is because of the big cap on the pipe to the rear of the skimmer.

The manual shows both pipes open for a "residential installation" with a float valve, but it shows the front pipe going to the main drain, not an equalizer, and the rear pipe (the one that's now plugged) going to the pump. It shows the equalizer in the diagrams for a "public pool" installation, and in those diagrams, the rear pipe is open and goes to the pump, and the front one goes to the equalizer and has a check valve in it.

We don't have a check valve. That pipe is open. And the rear pipe is plugged with a very large cap that won't let the float valve and the skimmer basket seat properly. We tried to unscrew this cap, and it wouldn't budge by hand.

We are really unsure what we are supposed to do with this. Do we need to unscrew and remove that cap somehow? And do we need to get a check valve for the front pipe? I am even more confused now than I was before I read this!

:scratch: :shock: :(

Any advice? Anyone?
 
WaterWoman said:
...the rear pipe is open and goes to the pump, and the front one goes to the equalizer and has a check valve in it.
Click to expand...
I can guess that if the front pipe goes to the low water EQ, the rear pipe would have to go to the filter, else there would be no suction line.
We don't have a check valve. That pipe is open. And the rear pipe is plugged with a very large cap that won't let the float valve and the skimmer basket seat properly. We tried to unscrew this cap, and it wouldn't budge by hand.
Click to expand...
If this is your suction line, it would need to be unplugged. Perhaps the previous owner capped it when winterizing the pool? Does the other skimmer have a cap in it?
We are really unsure what we are supposed to do with this. Do we need to unscrew and remove that cap somehow? And do we need to get a check valve for the front pipe? I am even more confused now than I was before I read this!
Click to expand...
As a kid, we had low water EQs on our pool and they did not have a check valve. Perhaps the check valve is a commercial code requirement??

BTW, this is my first post! Great forum!


-Rich
 
Perhaps someone simply put the cap/plug on the wrong port - unless for some reason, they plumbed the skimmer backwards. I suppose you could pour some water down the one open pipe and see if it comes out the equalizer hole in the side of the pool. Or, as someone else said, perhaps it was for winterizing the pump? - Not sure if you winterize in your area, we don't here so I have no experience.
 
Buggsw said:
I suppose you could pour some water down the one open pipe and see if it comes out the equalizer hole in the side of the pool.
Click to expand...
Hi Buggsw! That's a good idea. Think I'll try that tomorrow. You mentioned they might have plumbed it backwards. I've thought about that and it worries me. It wouldn't surprise me a bit. There's a reason, as I said above, why we call this the "wonder" house. Also, we don't do much winterizing like most people do since it rarely gets below freezing here. I figure that it may have been plugged for the winter, though, or for some other reason having to do with not using the pool. Wish I knew...
 

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BigGuy said:
WaterWoman said:
...the rear pipe is open and goes to the pump, and the front one goes to the equalizer and has a check valve in it.
Click to expand...
I can guess that if the front pipe goes to the low water EQ, the rear pipe would have to go to the filter, else there would be no suction line.
We don't have a check valve. That pipe is open. And the rear pipe is plugged with a very large cap that won't let the float valve and the skimmer basket seat properly. We tried to unscrew this cap, and it wouldn't budge by hand.
Click to expand...
If this is your suction line, it would need to be unplugged. Perhaps the previous owner capped it when winterizing the pool? Does the other skimmer have a cap in it?
[quote:bevfzp6l]We are really unsure what we are supposed to do with this. Do we need to unscrew and remove that cap somehow? And do we need to get a check valve for the front pipe? I am even more confused now than I was before I read this!
Click to expand...
As a kid, we had low water EQs on our pool and they did not have a check valve. Perhaps the check valve is a commercial code requirement??

BTW, this is my first post! Great forum!


-Rich[/quote:bevfzp6l]
Hi Rich! Well, I also wonder if the check valve is some commercial code requirement. If we can run it without it, then I don't care if it has one or not.

And congrats on your first post! :)

Also, about your second post, that would be cool if we could run a fountain or cleaner off that fitting.

I wish I knew what to do about the one in the middle of the wall that's capped, though. We need to figure out what to do about that one and SOON.
 
That's a good question! When I was a kid, 40 or so years ago I worked for a pool company doing new construction and plumbing. We had... I forget what it's called, but it was an attachment for a garden hose that had a leather bag on the end of it. You would put it in the pipe and turn on the water and the leather bag would expand and seal the pipe, forcing water back through it. We would use this tool when we had broken lines on a service call to find the break area to dig up, or if we had mystery lines on a new installation and it worked very well.

Sometimes, we would find lines that went nowhere (by the wet ground somewhere) and other times we used it when the markings on the new lines were unclear. Today, they sell a rubber version at Home Depot and Lowes that work the same way... perhaps this might be an option to see where it goes?

I don't know about your plumbing or filter setup, but if you use this, just take off the pump cover and open the filter to see where and how the water comes in (if at all). If it comes in through the pump, it's a suction line - if through the filter, it's a return. Make sure your gate valves are in the open position and your multiport is set to the filter position.

If it doesn't come into the filter at all, look for a wet spot on the ground somewhere between the filter and the pipe.

Back to the skimmer... When you said you didn't have a check valve on the skimmer, I thought you already tested the flow from the open pipe in the skimmer to the EQ?

EDIT: As a side note... It is very unusual to see PVC caps used to close or winterize a pool. Winterizing plugs are usually rubber with a wing nut on them. PVC caps are usually used as permanent fixtures.


-Rich
 
No, we haven't been able to really test out anything yet. The pump motor was burned out, so we had to order a new one. We are in the process of getting that wired up and ready to operate right now. It should (*cross fingers*) be operational by the end of the day today. The pool itself had to be drained and cleaned because it was filthy. (It had green water and thousands of mosquito fish living in it when we bought the house and, according to the neighbors, had been that way for over a year, maybe two.) We didn't even know what was underneath all that nasty water until just a few weeks ago. We'd hired a couple of pool guys to help us do all this. They drained it and hauled the muck out, then they flaked out on us. We'd hoped to have them here to help us through THIS part, but that didn't work out, so we are trying to finish up by ourselves. We are true novices, and are learning as we go -- hence, all my questions. We've been reading all we can, but it's a steep learning curve and a lot to absorb all at once. If we'd had a pool that was already up and running, it would be much easier, I think, to learn. We're going to take these pictures out to one of the area pool stores we've heard good things about later today and see what they say, too. The more input, the better. I wish we had someone on site to help us figure this out, but we don't. So, all the advice and comments here are REALLY appreciated! Thank you.
 
BigGuy said:
EDIT: As a side note... It is very unusual to see PVC caps used to close or winterize a pool. Winterizing plugs are usually rubber with a wing nut on them. PVC caps are usually used as permanent fixtures.
Click to expand...
This is good to know. I am wondering if it would have been common for an older pool to be plumbed with only one return line? If so, could the capped line in the middle of the pool wall have been it, and at some point, it was replaced with the one that sticks out from the wall? I don't like that, but would have to live with it, if that's the case. My next question would then be, with only ONE return line, would it be advisable/feasible to run a cleaner or fountain from it? If that is a reducing fixture that extends into the pool, wouldn't that restrict the return flow? And wouldn't that not be good if it's the ONLY return? Why would someone do that with their only return? We do know that, at some point, one of the previous owners was running some sort of pool business from this house, so it would seem they were at least somewhat knowledgeable about pools. I am confused. But I think I already said that. ;)

As for the pipes in the skimmer: I vacuumed out the water that was in the one open pipe. It goes down a few inches, then turns back toward the house. I ran a piece of flexible tubing into it and hit another turn, but can't tell which way it turns. I ran a reasonable amount of water into it from the hose and it did not come out the equalizer, so I don't know what to think. It seems to me that the plug on the other line either needs to be removed altogether, or at least replaced, because it is so tall it won't let the floater valve or the skimmer basket seat properly. ARGH! I really really really wish I knew more about this. :(
 
WaterWoman said:
I am wondering if it would have been common for an older pool to be plumbed with only one return line? If so, could the capped line in the middle of the pool wall have been it, and at some point, it was replaced with the one that sticks out from the wall?
Click to expand...
It's possible... I would ASSUME that these are the return lines:
returnlines.jpg

It WAS common place years ago to find smaller pools with one return and one skimmer... do you have only one skimmer?

I don't like that, but would have to live with it, if that's the case. My next question would then be, with only ONE return line, would it be advisable/feasible to run a cleaner or fountain from it? If that is a reducing fixture that extends into the pool, wouldn't that restrict the return flow? And wouldn't that not be good if it's the ONLY return? Why would someone do that with their only return?
Click to expand...
If you have only one return line, it should be exclusive to the return and proper circulation of the pool water. If memory serves, the other line with the reduction fitting was an add on, and probably not serving as a return, but an accessory return line (probably).

As for the pipes in the skimmer: I vacuumed out the water that was in the one open pipe. It goes down a few inches, then turns back toward the house. I ran a piece of flexible tubing into it and hit another turn, but can't tell which way it turns. I ran a reasonable amount of water into it from the hose and it did not come out the equalizer, so I don't know what to think. It seems to me that the plug on the other line either needs to be removed altogether, or at least replaced, because it is so tall it won't let the floater valve or the skimmer basket seat properly. ARGH! I really really really wish I knew more about this. :(
Click to expand...
I would start by removing the plug and running water through that line to see where it goes as I described above. The EQ may in fact have a check valve in it.


-Rich
 
OK, here's a quick diagram of the layout:
PoolLayout.jpg


And here are some pictures of the equipment:
Plumbing1.jpg


Plumbing2.jpg


Plumbing3.jpg


Pool10.jpg


There's no pump motor in the first three photos because it's being replaced. We're working on all of this right now. The motor in the last photo is the old one that was burned out.

Yes, there's one skimmer. I've indicated its position on the drawing. I would assume it's on that side because that's the direction the winds blow. I also indicated the approximate positions of the (possible) return lines I'm asking about.

Hope that helps! And thanks so much for taking the time to try to help us figure this out. :) Much appreciated. (The guys at the pool store this afternoon were NO help at all. :( )
 
My guess, and this is just a guess. The capped of pipe in the middle was capped off so fish would not swim in to there, and its a vac line, the ovel hole is a return, and the extended pipe is for a water feature or automatic cleaner. I believe the extended pipe is that, because your return pipes (at the pump) have a valve which would control the pressure sent to them. No idea on the skimmer.

Tell me though. Does the pool have a main drain? Grate at the bottom of the pool?
 

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