My "Giant Pond" is Almost a Real Pool! And Some Questions...

[BigGuy]

Okay, so here's what I think:

Not the way I would do it, but here's a simple test for the skimmer: Put your garden hose into the skimmer line at the pump and see if water runs into the skimmer. It's higher than the skimmer, so you should see water inside the skimmer (if the line is open) before it overflows. This will tell you if the plug in the skimmer belongs there. If water does appear in the skimmer, you can take out the PVC plug and replace it with a rubber freeze out plug instead so your basket will fit. If NO water appears in the skimmer and the pump overflows, then the capped line in the skimmer goes to the pump - uncap it any try again.

As far as the return lines are concerned, here's the only (common sense) explanation I can figure. I would guess that the only return line is the one with the reduction fitting on it, either that, or the pipe may have been replummed and a tee added so that one fitting could be a return and the other an accessory. I'm willing to bet that the previous owner had an accessory installed at the reduction fitting, such as a fountain. The best way to tell would be as I described earlier, with the garden hose adapter from Home Depot:

This adapter expands to more than 1 1/2" and seals the pipe, forcing the water from the hose back through the pipe. If you do this, I would start at the capped (new) fitting and see if water comes out the smaller one, I think it might. If it does, plug it and see if you can reverse fill the filter. This is the best and quickest way to do it without a smoke generator. If the filter starts to reverse fill, you know you have the right return lines.

Now for the oval fitting? I have never seen an oval fitting... ever.


-Rich

 

[BigGuy]

Okay, well I didn't see the part about the main drain! This makes things a little different... so now the one I had marked as the old return line is now most likely the main drain!

I edited the above post with the new main drain info...

So you need to install a manifold... I'll go shoot a picture of mine so you can see.

 

[BigGuy]

Here is my manifold:

I built my own pool 10 years ago to 30 YO standards. You need to have a similar manifold for yours. It makes no difference which is which, since one will be the drain and the other will be the skimmer - you can label them later and test them by turning one off and the other on and vice versa.

Every little bit of info makes this easier!


-Rich

 

[gman]

this thread is an interesting one, that's for sure. Im quite curious to know what sucks and what blows when the pool is full and the pump is running.

 

[BigGuy]

You can say that again! I really think the two fittings on the wall are returns... but the oval one has me stumped for sure. I have never seen an oval PVC fitting before.

 

[gman]

You can say that again! I really think the two fittings on the wall are returns... but the oval one has me stumped for sure. I have never seen an oval PVC fitting before.

The pool is an older one, I bet you a nickel that the 60's pools had steel pipes.

 

[gman]

My guess, and this is just a guess. The capped of pipe in the middle was capped off so fish would not swim in to there, and its a vac line, the ovel hole is a return, and the extended pipe is for a water feature or automatic cleaner. I believe the extended pipe is that, because your return pipes (at the pump) have a valve which would control the pressure sent to them. No idea on the skimmer.

Tell me though. Does the pool have a main drain? Grate at the bottom of the pool?

I just realized my assumption here can not be right unless some fancy rigging was done. The only material pipe on your pluming here is PVC and that hole looks to be a steel oval hole.

 

[WaterWoman]

The oval-shaped hole IS the end of a metal pipe. Before we painted it, there was rust below it.

We ran water into skimmer line at the pump earlier this morning, and it did come out the open pipe in the skimmer, so evidently, they plumbed it backwards. At least we know we have an open functioning line from the skimmer to the pump! We will investigate getting a proper cap for the plugged line in the skimmer.

About the manifold... there is something like this against the side of the garage behind the equipment. You can see it in the pictures I posted. I don't know if it's functional or not. We had no idea what it might be until you posted this, Rich. However, it is metal pipe, so I don't know if it could have been plumbed into the new PVC system or not. :?: We're going to have to go with what we've got for now, though. We don't have time at the moment to rip apart the current plumbing and add anything in. If the previous owners were running it 'as is,' then we've got to try doing that, too, for now, at least.

 

[gman]

Only thing Im worried about is if that capped pvc pipe is a return (which has the same cap I use when I close my pool for the winter) Then when you go to start the pump, You exlpode your filter or pipe dude to build up. I would strongly reccommend removing the cap and putting a return eye on there before starting up. If it does nothing and you notice no leaks then I would just leave it. It either sucks or blows, and My guess is it blows since you have a MD and skimmer.

 

[BigGuy]

Well in that case, since you do have water in the skimmer, I would say you could start it up with no problem. I'm willing to bet that both PVC fittings, the capped one and the reduction fitting are both returns. You'll find out when you start it.

I would consider though, hiring a pool guy to plumb in your main drain and make a new manifold for you. The main drain is an important part of the circulation of the water and chemicals. The parts would cost less than $20 and it would take me (or any service man) about 5 minutes to assemble it. The biggest cost would be the service call itself - $50 here in New Orleans.

I guess now that you know the skimmer is working, your next step is to fill it up! Good luck!


-Rich

 

[WaterWoman]

So, you guys think the old manifold we can see against the back of the garage isn't a part of the current system. Correct?

 

[WaterWoman]

Only thing Im worried about is if that capped pvc pipe is a return (which has the same cap I use when I close my pool for the winter) Then when you go to start the pump, You exlpode your filter or pipe dude to build up. I would strongly reccommend removing the cap and putting a return eye on there before starting up. If it does nothing and you notice no leaks then I would just leave it. It either sucks or blows, and My guess is it blows since you have a MD and skimmer.

I'm worried about this, too. Thanks for this info: "which has the same cap I use when I close my pool for the winter" -- that helps to know. We'll see what we can do about getting the cap off that possible/probable return in the pool wall this afternoon.

And we'll see what we can do about getting an appropriate cap for the plugged line in the skimmer (wonder if the cap we take off the return line would work if it fits?).

I think we're about good to go... may have some more questions about proper procedure for starting up all this equipment, though, so stand by!

Thanks so much, you guys!

 

[BigGuy]

So, you guys think the old manifold we can see against the back of the garage isn't a part of the current system. Correct?

No, it was apparently removed when the new plumbing was installed. What baffles me though, is why they didn't hook up the main drain.

And yes, you should take off the cover on the return before firing it up. Put your diverter valve in the return lines in the center open position so equal pressure goes to each line.


-Rich

 

[BigGuy]

Here's a quick start up procedure that my company had years ago when I was in the business:

Put the multi-port in the closed position on the filter. Open the top of the filter and fill it as far as it will go with water and then close it. Open the pump and place the garden hose inside and let the water run for a while and then close it. Put the multi-port in the Filter position and turn on the pump. Let the pump run until it is primed or 1 minute, whichever comes first. If it doesn't prime in the first minute, repeat the priming of the pump and try again. Once primed, open the bleeder valve on the filter near the pressure gauge and let the air escape.

If it doesn't want to prime, I turn off everything but one skimmer (that's all you have) and have my son cover the hole in the skimmer with his hand. I then fill the skimmer line with water from the pump, let the hose run in the pump for a few minutes and then close it up and turn it on. This works extremely well every time, but the really hard part is getting my son outside to help!


-Rich

 

[gman]

The main drain might have been unhooked due to a leak. I would leak test it (if this is possible) before hooking it back up. they may also have been to lazy to hook if work was done before you moved in.

 

[WaterWoman]

We took the cap off the center pipe in the pool wall. Fortunately, we had the good sense to have a bucket there to catch the nasty, rusty water that came out! But it's open now. I feel better. We're filling the pool.

So, what you're referring to as the diverter valve is this?

It's a Jandy NeverLube Valve. Right now, it's in a center-up position.

Where does it need to be to be in center open position?

(And thank you!)

 

[WaterWoman]

Here's a quick start up procedure that my company had years ago when I was in the business:

Put the multi-port in the closed position on the filter. Open the top of the filter and fill it as far as it will go with water and then close it. Open the pump and place the garden hose inside and let the water run for a while and then close it. Put the multi-port in the Filter position and turn on the pump. Let the pump run until it is primed or 1 minute, whichever comes first. If it doesn't prime in the first minute, repeat the priming of the pump and try again. Once primed, open the bleeder valve on the filter near the pressure gauge and let the air escape.

If it doesn't want to prime, I turn off everything but one skimmer (that's all you have) and have my son cover the hole in the skimmer with his hand. I then fill the skimmer line with water from the pump, let the hose run in the pump for a few minutes and then close it up and turn it on. This works extremely well every time, but the really hard part is getting my son outside to help!


-Rich

OK. I think I understand all of that. Thanks!

 

[WaterWoman]

The main drain might have been unhooked due to a leak. I would leak test it (if this is possible) before hooking it back up. they may also have been to lazy to hook if work was done before you moved in.

Well, as I said, there's a reason why we call this the "wonder" house (Wonder why they did that?) I think this pool update -- or most of it anyway -- was done maybe five years or so ago. As far as I've been able to date anything, 2003-2004 is the manufacture date I'm finding. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have plumbed in the main drain, either, but it might have been something they just hadn't gotten to yet before they sold the house. A lot of people have worked on renovations here. (We plan to be the last ones, and finish the job right, to the best of our abilities.)

 

[BigGuy]

...So, what you're referring to as the diverter valve is this?

It's a Jandy NeverLube Valve. Right now, it's in a center-up position.

Where does it need to be to be in center open position?

Yes, that's it. If memory serves, Jandy valves point to the off direction. In this case, it is pointing down, so it's all on I believe. If you turn the handle to the right and make it point to the left, the more you turn it, the less pressure will be in the left side. In a fully horizontal position, the side it points to is completely off. If you turn it 180 degrees to a fully vertical position, both pipes are off.

It looks like your returns are equally on and ready as in the picture. Now that you have determined the skimmer is clear and the return lines are open, you should be good to go.


-Rich

 

[WaterWoman]

OK, thanks, Rich. You've been a huge help!

You, too, gman!

I'm learning so much about this just by talking with you both here, and am starting to feel more confidant that we can do this.

In looking at the plumbing around the Jandy valve, it seems to me that there definitely must be two returns, and the plugged one was probably the second one. The pipe to the left of the valve is all PVC. However, the pipe going to the right is attached to a metal pipe that then goes down into the ground back near the old metal manifold. Here's a closer picture of that. There is some black PVC between the white PVC and the metal pipe.

Does that make sense? Why would there be a valve and 2 pipes coming from it if there's only one return? Logic says there are two. Right?

Now, in conjunction with that, since this older metal return pipe appears to be functional, and it's going into the ground back by the old manifold, is there a chance that it is also might be functional? Based on that chance (however slim it may be), shouldn't we have those valves in whatever is their correct position also -- just in case they are working? If so, then what should we do with them?