Opening a really murky pool

[antipode]

The cover had a couple of holes, it rained like heck in April, May, June, and it hasn't been hot (80+) yet this summer.

The water is brown, like BROWN brown.

How to go about opening it?

So far, I've backwashed.

Black Algaecide next? Shock? Mineral treatment?

Any direction would be appreciated...

 

[reebok]

no algaecides, no mineral Crud.
pool-school/
read all articles on pool chemistry, read how to defeat algae and how to shock your pool.
you need some baseline water test results also. a good test kit will help you tremendously. the one from www.tftestkits.net is the best value, but there is a comparison article in pool school also.

 

[TizMe]

Posting a full set of numbers would be helpful to the experts.

 

[Butterfly]

Hi antipode,

You've gotten great advice

Welcome to the forum

btw, lets keep all the posts on clearing your pool in this thread

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

You're going to need a lot of liquid chlorine, or bleach. If you have access to the 10-12.5% pool store variety, it will mean half the amount of jugs to lug around when compared to 6% bleach.

Make sure the filter is running, circulating the water for several hours before you take any test results.

I think it's safe to assume you have no chlorine, so test your PH/TA and CYA. You can have a pool store test the water for you (don't buy anything) until you can get your own test kit. You need to find out how high your CYA level is, if any, so you can know your shock level - refer to the CYA chart in my sig.

For now, it's safe for you to shock to at least a FC of 10 without knowing your CYA level. In a 7,000 gallon pool, you can safely add one large 182 oz jug of 6% bleach tonight, repeat tomorrow morning and tomorrow night, until you have some test results for us.

You want to make sure there's no organic waste in there, like leaves, etc., so be sure to scoop as much solid waste out as you can.

So read the Defeating Algae article in Pool School, and How to Shock your pool. Then read the other articles when you have absorbed the first two. You won't need the chems you mentioned.... just a lot of bleach.

 

[antipode]

Thanks folks.

I'll get you numbers in the morning (I have a little color-coded set), but in the meantime, my fiancee has dumped some Black Algaecide into the pool already and has it filtering some 6 hours.

Does that change the plan for liquid bleach?

I have to read up on this bleach idea. It sounds... wrong? I mean, if that's all it took, then why do they sell so many other products?

Thanks

 

[Buggsw]

Why would you use Black Algaecide unless you know you have black algae?

Algaecide is used more for prevention than cure. You need to get a lot of chlorine in that water, pronto. Scoop out as much crud that may be laying on the bottom as possible. Keep your pump running 24/7 and brush the pool every day. Keep an eye on the pressure at your filter and backwash when necessary.

Follow what these nice folks say and what you will learn in the various pool schools and the how to postings here and you will have an immaculate pool in a shorter amount of time and at a lot lower cost than using expensive products from pool stores.

 

[antipode]

Why would you use Black Algaecide unless you know you have black algae?

I think you already know the answer to that question: the pool store. We walked out with 3 liters of black algaecide, 2 buckets of chlorine "bullet tabs," and a case of shock. After giving them our money last season, I thought I'd try the communal knowledge of the forum.

 

[Buggsw]

Why would you use Black Algaecide unless you know you have black algae?

I think you already know the answer to that question: the pool store. We walked out with 3 liters of black algaecide, 2 buckets of chlorine "bullet tabs," and a case of shock. After giving them our money last season, I thought I'd try the communal knowledge of the forum.

Well, you are in the right place, now.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I mean, if that's all it took, then why do they sell so many other products?

Thanks

To make money, plain and simple. :grrrr:

You were Pool Stored. It happens all the time.

In over two years of being on this forum, I have not seen a single documented case of Black Algae in an Above Ground Pool. It just doesn't grow in them. Plaster pools, now that's a different story. Black Algae doesn't vanish - they are tough little buggers that won't go away without a little elbow grease and a lot of brushing.

You don't have Black Algae.

I was told that I had Black Algae, by a pool stealer, and treated it that way for 3 seasons, before I found TFP. I'd follow the instructions, the stains would vanish overnight, only to return when the FC dropped to normal levels. Of course the instructions with the Black Algae chem were to shock the pool....

2 months after switching to bleach, the stains were gone and have not returned. The stains were reacting to the shock levels of chlorine, not the black algae treatment.

I have added nothing to my pool in over 2 years except bleach, and I have zero problems, and never have to shock.

I suggest you take control of your pool by getting your own test kit and staying far away from that pool store that is robbing you blind.

If you want to clear your pool, follow the instructions in Defeating Algae, and How to Shock your pool. To the letter. If you want to spend hundreds of dollars and still have problems, then go back to the pool store.

Return the tabs, and the shock, unless the shock is liquid chlorine.

What was the active ingredient on the bottle of Algaecide?

 

[reebok]

the primary issue is cya's effect on chlorine. the pool industry (stores, mfr's, etc.) say that chlorine level needs to be 1-3 or 2-4ppm depending on which company it is, regardless of your cya level. and then everyone uses those chlorine feeder tabs to keep the chlorine level constantly in range. well those tabs also add cya, which inhibits the effectiveness of the chlorine (but cya is necessary to shield chlorine from sunlight). you end up with too much of a good thing with a much too low chlorine level. if word got out about the chlorine/cya relationship then all those products would vanish because the companies that make them would go out of business. but where does everyone get their pool info? the pool store. and the pool store sings the same song about 1-4ppm chlorine no matter what your cya is.
I have a swimming pool care book from leslie's that says all you need to prevent algae is chlorine, good filtration, good circulation and brushing. so I stayed on top of it this year to avoid the multiple algae outbreaks I had every previous year. well sure enough, I got algae and couldn't figure out why. then I found this site and this chart:
pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
problem solved.

I have to read up on this bleach idea. It sounds... wrong? I mean, if that's all it took, then why do they sell so many other products?
Thanks

 

[antipode]

So here's the status: my fiancee didn't feel comfortable going with bleach, so she has so far added 4 bags of shock, and 3 mini-tabs of chlorine. It's gone from brown to teal green and foggy.

We don't have a tester for CYA, but I'll get one tomorrow.

In general, are we headed in the right direction? Any pitfalls?

 

[PaulR]

"bags of shock" is not very descriptive; a variety of things are sold as "shock". Can you post the ingredients from the label on the bag?

Powdered chlorine comes in a couple different forms. There's calcium hypochlorite, which adds calcium hardness as well as chlorine; there's sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione (exact name can vary a bit, "dichlor" is the key) which adds CYA as well as chlorine. The tabs are likely sodium trichloro-s-triazinetrione ("trichlor") which also adds CYA as well as chlorine, just not quite as fast as dichlor.

Bleach has sodium hypochlorite, which basically adds nothing but chlorine. That's why we recommend it for nearly every situation.
--paulr

 

[reebok]

you will eventually run into one problem or another (depending on the "shock") which will require more work than simply using bleach. if it makes her feel better, pool stores in most hot weather states like florida, arizona, etc. both sell and recommend liquid chlorine for pool care which is twice the concentration of bleach.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Once in the water - the tablets and the powder produce the same effect as adding bleach - chlorine. The difference is as Paul mentioned - those products can add certain additives that may not be wanted in certain situations.

Bleach is perfectly safe to use, and actually probably better than the products she insisted on adding, since it doesn't add anything extra like CYA or calcium.

 

[Crimson]

The patience of some people in this forum amazes me. I don't have it. Here's my response:

STOP ADDING EVERYTHING BUT WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TOLD YOU HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew.. with that out of the way.. Let me speak some more. I was a new pool owner several months ago. Bought a house with a pool that was a swamp. I had to drain and replaster it, but I've followed the advice of this forum from day 1. I've not had a SINGLE problem with the pool.. The only thing I have added to my pool is bleach (chlorine) and acid. Other than getting the CYA to the correct level initially.

STOP adding the other stuff to the pool immediately. As others have said it could make your situation worse, and is definitely costing you money. Follow the advice of the people here and you will have a perfect pool.

 

[antipode]

I hear your enthusiasm and I have no reason to doubt it, but you know how some people are with these things.

Understand, most of us who grew up with pools went to the pool store, put in chlorine tabs, etc... (It's the same way that I can't get my mother to switch from diet soda to regular soda, let alone off soda all together.)

In any event, I'll certainly tell my fiancee about the chemicals mentioned by Paul and PoolMom. I hope that will convince her.

And, of course, I appreciate the patience shown by all of you kind strangers.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

What's wrong with Diet Soda? (slurrrp.....)

 

[antipode]

What's wrong with Diet Soda? (slurrrp.....)

Haha

OK - FYI - since everyone (including myself) want to know what the heck is in the chemicals I'm blindly dumping in my pool:

Chlorine "Bullet Tabs"= Trichloro-s-triazinetrione (63%)
(Package says "available chlorine = 56%")

Shock package #1= potassium peroxymonosulfate (38%)
(Package says "chlorine free")

Shock package #2= Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate (64%)
(Package says "available chlorine = 35%")
_________

My latest readings:
FC = 0
CYA = 0
pH = 6.0
Alkalinity = 40
Hardness = 0

I've just now added baking soda, 6% bleach (182 oz), and 2 chlorine "bullet" tabs.
Anything else?
--------

OK, here's the rub: I returned the Black Algaecide and the copper orb. NY, however, won't allow chlorine returns, so I'm stuck with the chlorine tabs. I don't want to throw the $$ away, so I figure I can use the tabs, and when the CYA levels in crease, I can augment with bleach. When the CYA levels get higher, then I can reduce the CYA levels. Sound reasonable? (Next season, I'll go straight for the bleach/ CY yin-yang.)

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

OK - FYI - since everyone (including myself) want to know what the heck is in the chemicals I'm blindly dumping in my pool:

Chlorine "Bullet Tabs"= Trichloro-s-triazinetrione (63%)
(Package says "available chlorine = 56%")

Trichlor tabs. Will Lower PH/TA and Raise CYA level

Shock package #1= potassium peroxymonosulfate (38%)
(Package says "chlorine free")

MPS - Recommended for Indoor pools and spas, not helpful for outdoor pools, will register as CC on chlorine tests. I would not use this at all.

Shock package #2= Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate (64%)
(Package says "available chlorine = 35%")

This is Dichlor and will raise your CYA level rapidly. 4 bags of Dichlor would put your CYA level at almost 40, unless she used the MPS?
_________

My latest readings:
FC = 0
CYA = 0
pH = 6.0
Alkalinity = 40
Hardness = 0

I've just now added baking soda, 6% bleach (182 oz), and 2 chlorine "bullet" tabs.
Anything else?
--------

OK, here's the rub: I returned the Black Algaecide and the copper orb. NY, however, won't allow chlorine returns, so I'm stuck with the chlorine tabs. I don't want to throw the $$ away, so I figure I can use the tabs, and when the CYA levels in crease, I can augment with bleach. When the CYA levels get higher, then I can reduce the CYA levels. Sound reasonable? (Next season, I'll go straight for the bleach/ CY yin-yang.)

You need to monitor the PH and TA, keep the TA above 120 and the PH above 7.4 Use Soda Ash/PH Up or a combo of Baking Soda and Borax to keep it in range. If your PH is really that low, Baking Soda will only raise the TA - you need some Borax too. How much did you add?

The only way to lower CYA is water replacement. Anything over 50 you will have trouble maintaining clear water.

Often the tablets alone do not maintain a good residual FC to keep the pool clear, so make sure you still maintain FC levels according to the CYA chart - even if that means adding bleach in addition to the tablets.

So confirm which shock bags she added, if she added the Dichlor your CYA is now about 35, and your min/target FC levels are 2/5.