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Thread: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

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    low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    Hi. New to Site. Lot's of good info

    I've got a low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+. When I cam across the method to lower TA I thought it would solve both problems. However, I've been vigorously aerating for 4 days now and have seen little change in ph?

    Is it because TA is so high. Any thoughts?

    Sandy
    Sandy, St. Thomas, US Virgin islands
    12X24 12,000 gal, inground, Tile, Cartridge Filter, Hayward 1 hp pump

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: How to lower TA

    there is a good chance you PH may be well below 6.8....raise it to 7.0 with borax and then try aeration form there
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    describe vigorously aerating.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    I'm with dmanb2b. The PH is probably well below 6.8. The common PH test shows PH below 6.8 as 6.8. The aeration is no doubt bringing up the PH, but hasn't gotten it to 6.8 yet.

    PH below 6.8 can damage your pool and equipment. I would bring the PH up to at least 6.9 with borax, and then continue with aeration. Aeration is slow, you don't want to wait that long with low PH.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    Made a pvc nozzle out of 1 1/2 in pipe and attached it to one of 2 returns.

    Kinda this shape


    |\
    |
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - water level |
    |
    |
    |
    return>---|




    Goes from return to about 8 inches above surface and then points down at 45 degree angle, about 6 inches above surface., It really seems to be churning the water pretty good. I even reduced flow to other return to make the aerator return even more forceful

    Was hoping to raise ph without adding borax but is my ph too low for that to happen?

    Thanks for your help

    Sandy
    Sandy, St. Thomas, US Virgin islands
    12X24 12,000 gal, inground, Tile, Cartridge Filter, Hayward 1 hp pump

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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    I'll start adding borax

    Thanks again
    Sandy, St. Thomas, US Virgin islands
    12X24 12,000 gal, inground, Tile, Cartridge Filter, Hayward 1 hp pump

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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    How are you testing pH and TA?

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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    I've got a 4 test Guardex test kit. Our local pool company ordered me a better kit (before i found this site) but it hasn't come in yet. Hopefully this week. I really want to see what my other levels are
    Sandy, St. Thomas, US Virgin islands
    12X24 12,000 gal, inground, Tile, Cartridge Filter, Hayward 1 hp pump

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    can you cancel the kit they ordered? unless it was a taylor k-2006, but I think that's pretty unlikely. if not, you can supplement it with a fas-dpd test from www.tftestkits.net
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    Ordered test kit last week. Can't wait to see what's really going on.

    12000 gal pool and have added 320 oz of borax and ph still not over 6.8. Makes me wonder what my PH was when i started trying to raise it. Anyway, will keep adding borax until I see results. I've been aerating all along

    I've only been adding 4 lbs a day. Can I add more or is it better to add in small increment.

    Sandy
    Sandy, St. Thomas, US Virgin islands
    12X24 12,000 gal, inground, Tile, Cartridge Filter, Hayward 1 hp pump

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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    I would suggest you get another pH test from a different source. That sounds like too much borax for no detectable pH movement.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    When TA is really high, it can take quite a bit more borax to raise the PH than it otherwise would. In 12,000 gallons with TA around 300, each box of borax will raise the PH by about 0.1.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    how much can i add at once? So far I've added 6 boxes, 1/2 a box at a time. Can I add more.

    BTW, just got a message that my test kit is on the way. I'm sure that will help clear some of the fog
    Sandy, St. Thomas, US Virgin islands
    12X24 12,000 gal, inground, Tile, Cartridge Filter, Hayward 1 hp pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    I'm surprised the aerator isn't doing the trick....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    I agree...something seems way off. Sandy can you describe exactly how you are testing the PH and snap a pic of your aerator in action?
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    The PH test is normally very reliable, and is most likely to read high when something goes wrong, so I am inclined to believe the PH reading. We can't completely rule out testing error, the PH reagent can go bad after a while and test strips are always unpredictable, but it doesn't seem especially likely.

    The reported readings/behavior is possible. The PH would have had to be 6.2 or lower when the process started, and TA at 300 or higher. Given that, six boxes of borax could in theory have not brought the PH up enough to read above 6.8. Still, this situation is quite unlikely. It takes some doing to get the PH that low, and the TA that high, at the same time. It is difficult to imagine what sequence of actions would have had that result.

    sandy, you can actually add about four boxes of borax at a time, but I am concerned that if your test results are wrong you could be creating some fairly serious problems by doing that. With a new test kit on the way, it might be better to wait for new test results before taking fairly drastic actions like adding four boxes of borax on top of the six you have already used.

    Do you know how the water go into this situation?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    Glad I found you guys when I did. I need help

    Is that 4 boxes a day all at once or 4 boxes at a time several times throughout the day (sorry, probalbly a stupid question but I don't want to make things worse)

    Took over pool myself when pool service when out of business about 3 months ago. Did a little internet research (obviously not enough) Went out and bought a test kit at home depot.

    Pool service was using chlorinating granules and chlorine pucks. (I continued that until I found this website) My first test didn't register any PH level at all. Thought that was strange. Tested tap water to double check test kit and it registered between 6.8 and 7.0.

    Pool supplies are hard to find here (St. Thomas US Virgin Islands). Shelves are often empty so I buy stuff when i see it. PH up at home depot is one of those things that's in stock 1/2 the time.

    I started trying to raise ph. Eventually i thought I was at 6.8 because I started to see a faint color change that sorta matched the 6.8 on the test kit. Based on comments above, seems I might have been well below 6.8. Home depot would then be out for a while and then they would get some in. I guess i wasn't as agressive raising the ph as I should have been.

    I don't know how or why TA is over 300 but it consistently tests around that mark. Don't have a test for CYA yet, but it's in the mail as we speak.
    Sandy, St. Thomas, US Virgin islands
    12X24 12,000 gal, inground, Tile, Cartridge Filter, Hayward 1 hp pump

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    Sandy...were glad to help, you can easily add 2 boxes broadcast around your pool, with the pump running and brush the pool bottom...wait 1hr, then test PH. If still at 6.8 or below, add the other two boxes. What seems odd is that high TA usually lends to rapid PH rise, so we're just a little stumped as to how your TA level is so high and your PH is really low
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    Actually I believe Jason advised you not add any more borax until you have a more reliable test kit to confirm the levels....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: low PH 6.8 and high TA 300+

    There is a tradeoff here between the level of confidence we have in the PH test vs the damage low PH can be doing. If the PH test is correct, the PH has already been low for quite some time, and another few days shouldn't make that much difference. If the PH is actually high, then you don't want to be adding any more borax. I don't think that it is actually very likely that the PH is high, but the amounts are getting to be really dramatic and it would be nice to have some confirmation.

    I thought of a way the PH could be really low and TA really high. If trichlor was in use for years and they were using baking soda to "raise" the PH, more common than you might think, it could end up this way after a year or two.

    I was thinking of four boxes of borax at one time, allow to circulate for three or four hours, retest and repeat.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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