How to manage my SWG hot tub

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M

Mig233

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Jun 22, 2017
11
NJ
chem geek said:
You can read Using Chlorine in a Spa for more info on the Dichlor-then-bleach method. This is the least expensive, safe and sanitary way to manage a spa and is essentially like BBB with pools. The Dichlor initially for around a week is to build up the CYA level to around 30 ppm. The bleach after that maintains the Free Chlorine (FC) level while not increasing CYA. In most spas, you need to use Dichlor about one day a month since the CYA will drop around 5 ppm per month. Though one can try and use pure CYA to raise it initially, the Dichlor isn't expensive in small quantities and dissolves quickly. Note that for pH stability one needs to have a very low TA level, as low as 50 ppm if needed, and that the use of 50 ppm Borates also helps for pH stability when the TA is low.
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Hello! This is my first post, but I found this forum while trying to solve a problem. I am an ultra newbie (owned my Hotspring Gleam for less than a week), and need a crash course on chemicals. My problem was very high FC (off the charts >20ppm) in my Hotspring Gleam (510 gallon) with the ACE salt system. After doing reading on this site, I lowered the output of the salt generator to 1/10, added MPS and added pH up. My readings are starting to turn around, but the FC is still high. I know they will eventually lower naturally, and if I want I can lower them immediately by adding hydrogen peroxide (H202). But my question here is for future plans for chemical sanitizing.

Currently I have 1 year supply of chemicals from hotspring (MPS, dichlor, pH up, pH down, hardness reducer, and defoamer). I know these chemicals, especially MPS, are very expensive. I also know that because of my salt system, I should be using less chemicals than if I had a standard non-salt tub. My question is since my chlorine levels are very high, would anyone here recommend me switching to the dichlor then bleach method now? I don't really know too much yet, and i don't want to overload myself with so many brand new variables about which I have no baseline. But based on the procedures laid out by Chem Geek and the sticky, it seems like my situation is ripe for the switch to the dichlor-then-bleach method. I have a bunch of questions, and so far this forum has helped a great deal. However, if someone was in my area or was able to give me a call so I could bounce my newbie ignorance off of expert knowledge I would appreciate it. PM me for phone numbers. Thanks.
 
Re: How to manage my SWG hot tub

MPS will interfere with the FC & CC tests and make them read falsely high. However much MPS you added, deduct that from your readings and you'll get a rough idea of what the FC really is. The MPS will take a couple days to disappear. Expose the tub to sunlight and FC will go down quickly.
 
Re: How to manage my SWG hot tub

Richard320 said:
MPS will interfere with the FC & CC tests and make them read falsely high. However much MPS you added, deduct that from your readings and you'll get a rough idea of what the FC really is. The MPS will take a couple days to disappear. Expose the tub to sunlight and FC will go down quickly.
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Really? Didn't know that. This is EXTREMELY confusing to me since, from what I've been told and what I've read, there is no way to accurately test for MPS, correct?
 
Re: How to manage my SWG hot tub

My problem right now is a combination of inexperience (no baseline for the tub or how each chemical affects readings) and ignorance. The dealer who sold me the hot tub provided next to no information on the chemicals and how they interact with each other. Yesterday I had to ask questions about chlorine(dichlor) vs shock(mps), and they couldn't give me a straight answer about what each one does or how to properly test for each. Considering that they recommend putting some of each after every use or every week "as needed," it is EXTREMELY inconvenient that I cannot properly test the levels of each.

Long story short is that I just set the hot tub up on sunday/monday, then Tuesday night I went in and there was a very strong smell of chlorine. I was still smelling chlorine on my body on Weds morning. So Weds I added MPS and pH up and it is starting to level out. Chlorine smell is not nearly as bad, but still reads high (probably due to what Richard said above). Is there a test strip that can test for MPS separate from Chlorine? Or is this yet another reason why I should switch to Chem Geek's dichlor-then-bleach method?
 
Re: How to manage my SWG hot tub

Welcome to TFP!

I use bromine, so I'm don't have direct experience with chlorine and SWCG's. However, based on what you have said so far, I think you will be much happier following the TFP methodology rather than the pool $tore advice you might get. For one thing, shocking every week is not a TFP practice. One should only "shock" when there is a specific problem to solve. The rest of the time, chlorine is maintained above a minimum level, and enough chlorine or other oxidizer is added to offset bather waste. If you follow this pattern and keep the water chemistry balanced, you should have crystal clear water all the time.

I would recommend that you get a good test kit. Strips are not reliable, and pool store water testing can be very misleading. Since you are using chlorine, you can get either the Taylor K-2006 kit, or one of the kits from TroubleFreeTestKits.

MPS oxidizes bather waste directly in a chlorine tub. But really, you should use liquid chlorine/bleach instead of MPS. It's best to keep the MPS in reserve.

Invest a little time in reading and you'll gain experience as you see what each addition does in your tub. It's a good idea to keep a log so you can refer back to it later. And ask questions if you can't find an answer by searching.
 
Re: How to manage my SWG hot tub

Thanks for the great response/advice! I saw that an accurate testing kit is imperative. The one I got from Healthmate is a 5 test strip...not terrible, but I would like like to know my TC vs FC vs CC. I saw the Taylor test kit, and boy is that complicated...and not to mention expensive! Not too familiar on the TFT one though. I did find an acquacheck 7 test which I am leaning toward. Does anyone have any experience with the aquacheck 7 test?
 
Re: How to manage my SWG hot tub

It is not one of the recommended test kits. Here is a comparison of kits, Pool School - Test Kits Compared

MPS unnecessarily complicates things in my opinion. I have used only bleach in my tub for quite a few years now and it works great. We use the tub several times a week or more. This is the process I use, How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

It will be even easier with the SWG because it will take care of your daily chlorine need and then unjust add bleach after a soak.
 
I will check out those products. Part of the issue is the price (5x more than strips). The other issue is how complicated the procedure is. I estimate it will take 10-15 mins to check TC/FC/CC, pH, TA and TH/CH. Longer if I want to test CYA (which most test kits give significantly less CYA reagents). The strip takes 15 secs. It may not be as accurate (perhaps they'll be in the same ballpark), but it is nice to check it before I leave for work, and when I get home from work quickly, make adjustments, and then see how those adjustments changed the water. I have a spa, not a pool, so some of the chemical changes happen within 10 minutes. Also, the strips test procedure may introduce some user error or reading errors, but the drop tests require counting out drops/accurately determining whether the solution turned a certain color/hoping not to spill any liquid out of a tiny shot glass. I am certainly open to suggestions and education, but there are several drawbacks to each method from what I see. Maybe I can use a combination of both...use strips to get a ballpark estimate in the morning and dial in the water more accurately when I have some time after work.
 
If you are insisting on going the route of the strips be forewarned that most of us on here will not be able to give you reliable advice on chemical additions because your test results will not be fully accurate. I have a SWG in my hot tub and have found that once I have it dialed in I rarely have to add any chemicals to the tub for the duration of the 6 months I keep that water in my tub. The occasional addition of of acid to fight PH rise and some occasional bleach for shocking it after a heavy bather load is it. None of that would be possible without having a good test kit such as the ones you were advised to purchase. I don't think it is necessary for you to convert your tub to bleach so long as you understand how the SWCG your hot tub has works. I have the technichlor drop over model and it is easy to operate once of I got understand how it works. I would advise that you also get a test for the salt then too so you can track that as well. If you want to use the strips as a ballpark estimate that is fine but they are just that, an estimate. I would suggest buying the taylor kit and at least 2 times a week then testing it with that for verification. Besides, the taylor kit will probably last you a year or more and will make it easier to work through any problems, should they arise.
 

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There is no need to run all those tests everyday.

I test FC and CC along with PH every 1-2 days, takes a minute at the most. The other results just don't change that quickly, I test TA every week or two, CH and CYA only every 3-4 weeks. A speedstir makes testing quicker and easier and may even improve accuracy.

Strips are not really even ballpark, they offer ranges so wide they really don't tell you much and make it impossible to detect small changes. High FC conditions often bleach them out and the colors always seem to run together and distort the result.
 
I will most likely be purchasing either the taylor or the TFT kit. I think what I'll wind up doing is taking a sample of the water then bring it inside so I can test at my desk rather than outside by the spa counting drops and speedstirring reagents.

Right now, I've had my spa in service for about a week. So I am testing at least once per day to see fluctuations and how each chemical and the quantity of each chemical affects the levels.
 
As a new hot tub owner (6 months ownership), I own a SWG Hot Spring spa myself and definitely recommend a drop kit. Mine happens to be a Taylor. I tested daily only becuase I wanted to see how various scenarios effected chemistry (Bather Load, Sunshine, swim suits, vs no swimsuits heh heh). I found that sunshine and aeration lowered chlorine amounts in my spa and raised PH numbers, as stated in the TFP forums (It is partially covered by a porch roof but can get 4-6 hours of sun in the AM). As Slinky mentioned above my only issues is adjusting PH (adding acid) changes with since the spa aerates when in use and adding liquid chlorine when shocking after heavy bather load. I occasional add MPS when CC gets to high and isn't controlled with Shock. Once dialed in though the SWG does a great job with maintaining a minimum chlorine level with little maintenance. Our is set at 4, but we have a Grande model which is 500 gallons. I hope you enjoys your tub as much as we do ours and read as much on this forum as possible. I've learned lots.
 
Thanks for the info! I have a Gleam which is the same size as your Grande (510 gallons). I also notice that with use and aeration both the chlorine and pH drop. I'm trying to dial-in the proper setting for the ACE salt system when not in use to maintain the chlorine level...right now I have it on 5. But I only have had the tub for less than 2 weeks so I'm still learning.

Quick question: What are you using for "shock?" I thought that MPS was "chlorine free shock?" I'm a little confused on what MPS is, when to use, and how to measure. Also, how does MPS interact with the other chemicals and the salt system I have? Hopefully this forum will provide answers.
 
MPS is a non chlorine oxidizer or 'shock'. It is acidic and will cause lower pH and TA. It adds sulfates to the water which will build up and attack metal items such as heaters. It will not break down CC but helps prevent it from forming when used on a regular basis. It will interfere with TC and CC tests unless special reagents are used in testing since it WILL test as CC! A good choice to use in indoor pools that are not exposed to sunlight but really has no advantage in an outdoor pool. It is only an oxidizer and NOT a sanitizer and should not be used as such.

I recommend using bleach and only bleach in the tub. I have maintained my tub following this process for 4 or 5 years now and it works great. All I have ever put in my tub is bleach, CYA and Borax. How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)? Your SWG will make the FC maintenance much easier. But you still need to add enough bleach after a soak to oxidize the bather waste.
 
pooldv said:
MPS is a non chlorine oxidizer or 'shock'. It is acidic and will cause lower pH and TA. It adds sulfates to the water which will build up and attack metal items such as heaters. It will not break down CC but helps prevent it from forming when used on a regular basis. It will interfere with TC and CC tests unless special reagents are used in testing since it WILL test as CC! A good choice to use in indoor pools that are not exposed to sunlight but really has no advantage in an outdoor pool. It is only an oxidizer and NOT a sanitizer and should not be used as such.

I recommend using bleach and only bleach in the tub. I have maintained my tub following this process for 4 or 5 years now and it works great. All I have ever put in my tub is bleach, CYA and Borax. How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)? Your SWG will make the FC maintenance much easier. But you still need to add enough bleach after a soak to oxidize the bather waste.
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Thank you for the quick and excellent response! I have a "year supply" of chemicals that came with the hot tub. I plan on switching to bleach after I use up my chemicals. One more quick question: By bleach, we are talking about over the counter, chlorox bleach right? I think I read it should be "unscented." But I just want to make sure that I can directly switch from "hotspring chlorine granules" to bleach.
 
One thing to be aware of, but not sure I know if it really has merit. So adding to thread for others opinions. The Hot Springs manual says Don't add bleach to the spa, or even MA. My dealer said it would void the warranty, but said to use granular chlorine. My question, what's the difference? Chlorine is chlorine, right? Not sure why one would damage and the other not. And of course this after I called to cancel the reoccurring order for their chemicals. But it is in the manual.
Opinions?
 

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