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Thread: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

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    Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    So, I'm at the counter, 2nd in line waiting to pick up some liquid Cl at Leslie's...

    Guy in front of me is getting his water tested - and standing there with a 10lb pail of Stabilizer.

    Clerk finishes the test, and sells him an additional 5 lbs and says, "Protects your pool from UV rays, you should get another 5 lbs... And add it every year."

    Guy says, "do I need any acid?" - Pool Clerk, "No."

    Guy pays and leaves - and leaves his test results behind on the counter. When the Clerk went to the back to get my Cl, I looked at the guys results:

    CYA - did not measure.
    pH - 8.0
    dKh - (IIRC) ~300.

    It took every thing I had in me not to say anything to the clerk (or go run out to the parking lot to grab the guy that's going to have pool problems for the next 5 months, and again next year).



    - Jeff
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    DaveNJ's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Been there. Its amazing to watch the carts of stuff rolling out of the door. With a price tag to match. I walked out with a pack of skimmer socks. That felt good.
    IG 18x36 oval vinyl, Spill over spa, Northstar 2hp-2spd, 2.5" piping, S310T 500lb Sand filter, 400k gas heater, AutoPilot SWCG
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    jefeyessica's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    We should all carry around little trouble free pool business cards. Then, discreetly slip them into the naive customer's bags as they leave the pool store
    14,200 gallon in ground Plaster Pool
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    The last time I went to the pool store, Great Escape, I was in line while another guy was in line I spent $21 something on 8 gallons of 12%Cl and an end to fix the part of my vacuum that connects to the pole. He spent $75 on a bunch of bags of powdered shock and who knows what else.

    I would like some business card type things. Also, the side of the building would make a nice place for a graffiti mural. We should hire some thugs and buy them some spray paint.
    steve

    Above Ground / 18' Round / Vinyl Liner / Sand Filter / 100K Gas Heater / Salt Added / No Nature2

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    I wanted to get a troublefreepool tshirt from the store pages/store/ but none of them even say troublefreepool.COM which seems pointless to me. I tried getting them to change it with no luck. maybe if some more people complain about not being able to advertise this site for free...
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    We were at the pool store today getting our water tested for the first time and I wondered if all the people in there were being swindled outta their money.

    We got a free set of chemicals today. Now, it was free. But I was still looking at the box of stuff sideways wondering if I wanted to actually put that in my pool!
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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    what was it?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    I work at a store now after 17 yrs building, remodeling and servicing pools. I had my own pool company in South Carolina and had to close it and move elsewhere for work. When I started here, there was an old lady working the counter and doing the water tests. After a week of watching her do these things, I couldn't believe the **** she was doing to these pools. I pretty much had to bite my own tongue! She was bioguard smart. That was it. Sell Jacks purple and blue and then the next week sell them sodium bromide to kill the algae no matter the chlorine residule/cya. Now that she has been gone for 6 months, super happy customers, no longer stocking blue and purple (only magenta), and a huge decrease in algae pools. We also have had a big increase in new customers. There is about 7 pool stores in a 10 mile radius around mine, Leslie's, pinch-a-penny to name a few. People have been saying, I would leave pinch-a-penny everyweek spending close to 100.00 bucks! I also would like to mention, we do not use a computerized water testing lab, just trusty ole taylor kit(s). The print outs are logged with LaMotte Waterlink system. When I started I did a comparison between the two, and the taylor was way more accurate.
    Indiana, ABG 24'x52" Galveston by Blue Cascade (Craigslist $600 w/part of deck included), 13,500 gallons, Intex SWG, solar panel

    My backyard is like a park... Why then does DH always want to go camping??? I just don't understand.

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Thank you for giving your customers good service and helping them to maintain trouble free pools. Even if pool owners wanted to use Trichlor pucks for the convenience, at least with your help they will know that this is a cost/convenience tradeoff with extra algaecide required (such as PolyQuat 60) and that the CYA levels need to be watched with appropriate dilution. For those who are willing to add chlorine more frequently, you can offer chlorinating liquid at a decent price and even reuse the bottles. That's why I get 12.5% chlorinating liquid from my local pool store. Prices have recently gone up and it's around $4 per gallon whereas it used to be $3.50 a few years ago, but it's still very economical at around $17 per month for my 16,000 gallon pool including the small amount of acid I also use about once a month or so.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Quote Originally Posted by leak-hound
    I work at a store now after 17 yrs building, remodeling and servicing pools. I had my own pool company in South Carolina and had to close it and move elsewhere for work. When I started here, there was an old lady working the counter and doing the water tests. After a week of watching her do these things, I couldn't believe the **** she was doing to these pools. I pretty much had to bite my own tongue! She was bioguard smart. That was it. Sell Jacks purple and blue and then the next week sell them sodium bromide to kill the algae no matter the chlorine residule/cya. Now that she has been gone for 6 months, super happy customers, no longer stocking blue and purple (only magenta), and a huge decrease in algae pools. We also have had a big increase in new customers. There is about 7 pool stores in a 10 mile radius around mine, Leslie's, pinch-a-penny to name a few. People have been saying, I would leave pinch-a-penny everyweek spending close to 100.00 bucks! I also would like to mention, we do not use a computerized water testing lab, just trusty ole taylor kit(s). The print outs are logged with LaMotte Waterlink system. When I started I did a comparison between the two, and the taylor was way more accurate.
    Pinch-A-Penny uses a Taylor test kit with titration. The computer program's values can be changed to custom levels, although most stores don't which is why most people spend so much money.

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    I went into a Pinch A Penny here locally and asked if they carried the Taylor R-0870 DPD powder as I needed a new container of it. He just looked at me with a confused look. He had no idea what it was and said he has never heard of a test that uses powder for FC testing. This was the store owner as they are all independently owned. I was going to ask him how they tested for FC, but I didn't. I bought my liquid chlorine and left.
    24' Round AGP | 13,600 Gallons | Waterway Cartridge Filter | Waterway 2 Speed Pump | K-2006 Test Kit
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    the computer has its recommended levels...i changed them. i guess thats why nobody that brings me water has problems and the store dont sell to much on the chemical side. it is a breath of fresh air when they come here opposed to the penny and other stores. what i also do to help these fantastic customers of mine is give them inside ideas on how to cut thier electric bill in half by setting up their filtration to run less time with "custom" directional flows i make myself or a thing called the circulator. ill fill you guys in on the eyeballs:
    get a 3/8" eyeball, a drill with a small bit(nothing more than 1/4") , set the direction of the main hole to point towrds the wall and drill the holes on the other side wherever you want to push water down to the floor. if any one has a blue haven pool you know what im talking about. you can practicly keep ypur pool swept with these. the circulator is a great item too. it is like a pop up in floor cleaning head for the return. they are a little spendy, but, they work great. (thecirculator.com)
    Indiana, ABG 24'x52" Galveston by Blue Cascade (Craigslist $600 w/part of deck included), 13,500 gallons, Intex SWG, solar panel

    My backyard is like a park... Why then does DH always want to go camping??? I just don't understand.

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Quote Originally Posted by leak-hound
    the circulator is a great item too. it is like a pop up in floor cleaning head for the return. they are a little spendy, but, they work great. (thecirculator.com)
    I like the idea of improved circulation, but if these things actually work like they do in the video, it seems to me that they would create some serious aeration issues. If they were'nt so expensive they would be great for aerating to lower TA!.
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    I work at a local Leslies and I only wished that they would only hire CPO's (like myself) instead of kids with retail experience. I dunno I just feel that the customers would rather go to a store with educated experienced people rather than salespeople that try to rip them off. I know I'm not the best salesperson that has worked there, but I like to think that a customer that leaves satisfied and not ripped off would come back and maybe even recommend others to us. Now I only need to figure out how I can convince my district manager to let us stock borax
    Gilbert, Arizona
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Welcome to TFP!

    Thank you for keeping yourself educated and wanting to help your customers with knowledgeable advice. One pool store at a time...
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Hi. I realize that this is an old thread, but I feel the need to defend my store here. I have worked at a Pinch A Penny for several years and do a million water tests a day. I'm sorry if the store near you gave you a bad experience, but we aren't all numbskulls.
    First, we use a liquid DPD reagent to test for free chlorine. We sell the powder, and I do know what it is, but we use a liquid.
    Second, more often than not my customers walk out without needing to buy anything or possibly in need of a cup (or two) of acid.
    When, the test does call for tons of extra stuff I advise them to get an extra test done before adding it, in case it was a bad sample.
    Please don't lead people to believe that every PAP in the state is out to rip them off. Neither I, my coworkers, nor my employer have that intent.

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melpet86 View Post
    Hi. I realize that this is an old thread, but I feel the need to defend my store here. I have worked at a Pinch A Penny for several years and do a million water tests a day. I'm sorry if the store near you gave you a bad experience, but we aren't all numbskulls.
    First, we use a liquid DPD reagent to test for free chlorine. We sell the powder, and I do know what it is, but we use a liquid.
    Second, more often than not my customers walk out without needing to buy anything or possibly in need of a cup (or two) of acid.
    When, the test does call for tons of extra stuff I advise them to get an extra test done before adding it, in case it was a bad sample.
    Please don't lead people to believe that every PAP in the state is out to rip them off. Neither I, my coworkers, nor my employer have that intent.
    Welcome to the forum!

    We don't say all stores are bad, nor that all store employees are stupid or numbskulls. We just see many, many situations where stores have lead people down bad roads. Often because the employees are simply not educated or knowledgable about good pool Chemistry. Sometimes, because this is simply due to how/what they are taught, or through sheer ignorance or lack of experience. The powder test we suggest is for very accurate and high range FC testing. The high range ability allows good control of high FC levels during the clearing of Algae. It's good to hear you aren't out to deceive your customers, or steer them wrong for whatever reason but unfortunately the same can't be said for most of them. If you'll look around the forum, you can find thousands of posts where people have had terrible experiences listening to pool store advice, and so many of them now have pristine perfect pools. Most importantly, they are educated on the fundamentals and understand what they are doing and why. This is where we differ most from stores. Knowledge and understanding is our cornerstone, and just being honest, it doesn't behoove most stores profit wise to educate their customers about these things. When they understand they can have a perfect pool without walking into a pool store ever again, that can't possibly be a good thing for chains or locals. No worries though, there are plenty of people out there who will remain for them, simply because they are ignorant of the facts, unwilling to learn, or misguided with the notion they could never do it on their own. Each to his own, but we are here to help others who seek a different path. It's good to have you here, and I hope you'll read around and see what I'm talking about. If you would please refrain from old post bumping it would be much appreciated. It's against almost any forum etiquette, including ours. Feel free to begin a thread of your own to discuss things.
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Please don't lead people to believe that every PAP in the state is out to rip them off. Neither I, my coworkers, nor my employer have that intent.
    I agree that the INTENT is good at most pool stores. Continue to read through this forum and you will find a serious disparity between intent and results. The RESULTS indicate Pool Store testing to be woefully inaccurate and Pool Store advice to be the same.

    I am glad that you are there helping your customers but you are in a small minority.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    I went to the pool store yesterday it pick up some Fiber Clear. The kid said they didn't carry it but took me into a room filled with potions. They had the Bio Guard EcoKlean. I asked if it was the same stuff as Fiber Clear and he said he didn't even know what it was or what it was for. They were asking $49.00 for a three pound bag. I looked it up online after I got home and it was $18.99 everywhere.
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir.

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    Re: Pool Store: Had to bite my tounge so hard it almost bled...

    Thank you for wanting to do right by your customers and for being one of the good ones out there having integrity and honesty and most importantly wanting to be educated so that you can do a better job.

    For most pool stores it's ignorance, not intentional deceit. And that ignorance is not limited to those working in the stores but pervades the pool industry through the distributors to the manufacturers. In particular, the chlorine/CYA relationship is not understood nor taught. The fact that the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) level that prevents algae growth is proportional to the FC/CYA ratio is simply not taught. Even the following chemical facts that are independent of concentration of product or of pool size are generally not taught:

    For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
    For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
    For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm.

    Sometimes some vague understanding is there such as Trichlor increasing CYA over time, but the specifics about it are almost always never taught because simple math shows that with 2 ppm FC per day chlorine usage with only Trichlor results in 36 ppm CYA per month increase if there is no water dilution. Even 1 ppm FC per day usage results in 18 ppm CYA per month increase. While the chlorine is consumed every day mostly from breakdown from sunlight, the CYA builds up over time making the chlorine less effective.

    Many pool stores combat the resulting problems not by explaining the FC/CYA relationship or the alternative of using chlorinating liquid or bleach, but instead offer supplemental products such as algaecides, phosphate removers, clarifiers, flocculants, enzymes, etc. Also, such products are offered without an understanding of their side effects such as plaster staining from copper-based algaecides. These products have higher margins that plain chlorine.

    Furthermore, the "automatic" programs offered from the manufacturers that many pool stores use are designed to sell product and not to properly solve problems and they don't consider the interaction of products in their recommendations. This thread on another forum gives a typical example where the automatic recommendations from an automatic system used BOTH BioGuard BalancePak 100 which is sodium bicarbonate for raising the TA AND BioGuard BalancePak 200 which is sodium carbonate and raises BOTH pH AND TA. Their system didn't account for the fact that BalancePak 200 also raised the TA so the combination raised the TA too much so the water turned cloudy. The BioGuard Smart Shock was then added and turned the water green because of the copper in that product added to water where the pH was too high.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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