New Construction: Cathedral City CA

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Ok, I really hesitate to ask this question, but feel I must. One of the PB we would like to consider is someone who built our neighbor's pool and comes highly recommended. This PB works for larger company, but does jobs on the side for friends, and friends of friends. His prices are notably cheaper.

YES, I hear you ... you get what you pay for, and I never go with the contractor with the cheapest price unless I have direct referrals from people I know have used them. My success rate with successful outcome has been close to 100 percent. HOWEVER... this is that first time I have hired a contractor for a job this complex and costly.

Any suggestions of things I should ask him or get written into the contract?
 
Here is one list. I'm not comfortable grilling someone, but many questions are important. All these would add hours to the initial visit. If I had had all these questions, I would have scheduled a first meeting for design and equipment info and getting to know the PB. Then I'd have a follow up meeting for many of the other questions if the PB made the cut past the design, equipment, list, and cost.

From this pool build thread page 2: Houston, TX Pool Build Diary - From Design to Dive-In - Page 2 Platipus's Patented Pleadings for all Professional Pool Purveyors and Projects

My thoughts on some of the questions are in black. Let us know if you have questions.


1. Years in business?
2. Who are the owner(s) if not you?
3. Number of employees?
4. What services do you provide directly and what will be sub'd out?
5. Who will be in charge of the job?

#'s 6, 7, and 8 all refer to question #5. It doesn't hurt to ask, but from what I've read, #'s 7 and 8 often do not happen. My PB was there for the excavation and the rebar - to me, those really were critical for spotting the grade heights (not sure what you call this) for the the pool and the tying off of the rebar. I rarely saw my PB after that, but I was pretty much ok with that since I had a lot of confidence in him.
6. How often will they be on-site? Is there a backup?
7. Will they be on-site to meet every sub the very first time they show up?
8. Will they do an on-site review at completion of work with every sub before they leave?

9. Are you in the process of selling the business or transitioning any key responsibilities to someone else?
10. Jobs per year last 3 years?

#'s 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and maybe 16 (not sure if I've heard #16 being done) are important, especially if he's on his own.
11. Can you provide a copy of your current and valid Contracting License?
12. Do you carry general liability insurance? How much? Will you provide proof of coverage prior to any contract signing?
13. Do you carry workers’ compensation insurance and can you provide proof?
14. How are your subs insured? Can you provide proof?
15. Will you provide a written Lien Releases for yourself and all sub's prior to final payment?
16. Will you include a subcontractor/vendor Proof of Payment clause in the contract?

17. Can you provide a sample contract with your bid submittal? For my PB, they were the same. He just revised the contract when we made changes.
18. Do you pull all required Building Permits?
19. Will you be present for all inspections? I haven't read much on here about the PB being present for an inspection. Where I live, we don't have inspections.
20. Are you a member of any professional pool builder organizations?
21. What is your BBB Rating? Any recent complaints? Have they been resolved? I would check that myself rather than asking.
22. How is your Credit and/or Dunn & Bradstreet rating? I never did that - would a PB even have that rating? Maybe a national company.
23. Any lawsuits in the last 5 years?
24. Can you provide references? Can we see their pools in person? Definitely, absolutely if you haven't already seen pools from your friends. Especially check those this guy has done on his own.
25. Have you done a job with a swim jet similar to what we are looking for?
26. How much work in Kingwood have you done? Anything in Kings Point?
27. Are you familiar with our specific sub-division HOA rules?
28. Who will be representing us (I would ask who will apply for approval...) to the HOA? Is there any direct involvement that will be needed from us?
29. How many times have you been through Kings Point HOA approval process in the last 3 years?
30. How many other concurrent jobs do you typically run?
31. How do you handle change orders? Will you commit in the contract to following an in-writing change order process? This seems to be getting pretty legal - maybe necessary in some places. I would make sure I requested any changes via email or in writing, so you have the requests documented.
32. Who will be doing the final plans/drawings?
33. How and when do we meet with them?
34. How many plan/drawing revisions do we get?
35. Can you provide a 3D render? Cost?
36. Will you itemize your bid? I would tell him you want/expect an itemized bid rather than ask if he will do it.
37. Will you work with a contract deadline with a penalty for missing it?
38. Will you let us review your sub-contractor selection? I guess I would ask if I had knowledge of the contractors in my area, which I didn't.
39. If we have a different vendor or sub we want to use for a specific item like gunite or surface finish, how is that handled? I did request a specific gunite company and was told I would get them, but..... that wasn't who showed up the day of gunite. I wasn't canceling it at that point. Depends on your area. I think the plaster installers are very critical. Request one if you know them to be better than others.
40. Do you provide a port-a-john during construction? Never entered my mind to ask..... Ewwwwww
41. Will you protect the house, windows and patio from all concrete/plaster overspray with plastic sheeting or tarps? Pretty standard I believe, but don't assume they will.
42. How often will you clean-up debris? Good to ask so he knows you're concerned about it, but don't be surprised if it's only once in the middle of the build and at the end. It seems to be a widespread issue re cleanup. I took care of what bothered me and left the rest. Pick your battles.
43. Will you guarantee that the front yard is always free of trash and debris at the end of the day? Ha! Good luck here. But... some people have tacky HOA's or neighbors. If you do, press this point.
44. Will you do a thorough clean-up at the end of the job, including a magnetic sweep? Good idea -wish I had told them to do it.

#'s 45 through 53 are all good to ask ahead at some point before hiring - maybe at a second meeting?.
45. If wider access is needed through the fence/gate, will you provide temporary fencing?
46. Will you repair any changes the fence to its original condition?
47. Who is responsible for damaged lawn from construction traffic?
48. Will you repair any broken irrigation outside of the dig zone (path leading to jobsite)?
49. Will you repair or replace any broken or damaged existing incidentals such as windows or gutters?
50. Will you repair or replace any broken or damaged new incidentals such as tile, lighting or plumbing & electrical fixtures?
51. Will you repair any broken concrete on sidewalks or driveways that result from construction traffic?
52. Will you handle all utility marking?
53. Who is responsible for the repair costs of any cut or broken service lines (Cable/Phone/Gas/Power)?

54. What hours will subs be on-site? Any weekends?
55. Will you agree to have all sub's completed, cleaned up and off-site by 6pm each Weekday, 5pm on Saturdays and not scheduled for Sundays?
56. Will access to the interior or the house and/or garage be needed? When? To whom?
57. What kind of payment schedule will you be requesting? Definitely ask.
58. Will you work with a 5% final payment that is payable upon completion of the punchlist? Ask this if he doesn't include it in his answer to #58. My PB didn't but was very nice to do so when I asked.
59. Are there any situations where you will be asking for earlier payment than what is agreed upon up front?
60. What guaranties and warranties do you provide and for how long? Definitely ask and get in writing.
61. What soil concerns are for our area and is there anything you do to address it? Ask if it applies.
62. Are there any conditions or issues that could be found as part of the dig that could change the price or impact the project? Good to ask.

#'s 63 through 67 are good to ask.
63. Do you handle Landscaping as well and/or do you have a Landscaper that you like to work with?
64. What Hardscape/Site Improvements are included as part of the core bid? (ie Grading, Drainage, Pathways, Raised Planting Areas, etc…)
65. Is there any part of the job that you are un-sure of or have reservations about?
66. Is there anything jumping out at you that we could change or do differently as a money saver?
67. Run us through your process/steps:
 
Big Will said:
You guys both are in the devils backyard with that kind of heat hahaha
Click to expand...

You are on the upper deck -------- hahahaha

- - - Updated - - -

Yorker said:
Ok, I really hesitate to ask this question, but feel I must. One of the PB we would like to consider is someone who built our neighbor's pool and comes highly recommended. This PB works for larger company, but does jobs on the side for friends, and friends of friends. His prices are notably cheaper.

YES, I hear you ... you get what you pay for, and I never go with the contractor with the cheapest price unless I have direct referrals from people I know have used them. My success rate with successful outcome has been close to 100 percent. HOWEVER... this is that first time I have hired a contractor for a job this complex and costly.

Any suggestions of things I should ask him or get written into the contract?
Click to expand...

That would make you an Owner/Builder with him as a paid consultant. You would pull the permit. One issue to consider is IF he uses non-licensed contractors and one gets hurt how does Workmans Comp and Liability raise its head. Something to think about - as you live in one of the more onerous nanny states.

Good Luck.
 
[[Here is one list....]]

Suz, do you see or feel the cylindrical force from my head spinning ?-) What a great list of questions. I need to get better at preforming searches on this site because I never saw that thread. Many points I transferred to my list!
 
mknauss said:
That would make you an Owner/Builder with him as a paid consultant. You would pull the permit. One issue to consider is IF he uses non-licensed contractors and one gets hurt how does Workmans Comp and Liability raise its head. Something to think about - as you live in one of the more onerous nanny states.

Good Luck.
Click to expand...
He said his subs do have Workers Comp and Liability and will provide proof of that. However, the work he and his crew will do (plumbing and electrical) do not.

A few years ago we hired a painter for our two story home who did not have any insurance. I spoke with our homeowners insurance agent and would have sword they said we would be covered if they sued us. - Just called them now to confirm that, but they are out of the office. The person who answered the phone offered to answer my question. They said ABSOLUTELY not. So I have it on my Monday morning ToDo list to call and speak with my agent directly.
 
Yorker said:
Suz, do you see or feel the cylindrical force from my head spinning ?-) What a great list of questions. I need to get better at preforming searches on this site because I never saw that thread. Many points I transferred to my list!
Click to expand...

Sorry!! I felt the same way going through it this morning, and I'm long finished with my pool. We all have different concerns and needs for reassurances, so I decided to keep all of the questions. I'm sure if we were to search more, we'd find even more questions suggested by others. I don't think the PB's I met with would stayed for all those questions!

I was also searching for the list of things to check off with each step of a pool build. I found it and started this new thread: What I've Learned from TFP with each stage of a pool build by Twinkiesmommy2009 That list really made my head spin! It's very good, but I missed doing many of them during my build. I'm still swimming, so it worked out! I know my knowledge is limited, but I was disappointed at how many didn't make sense or I flat didn't understand!
 
Your homeowners insurance will absolutely not cover unlicensed and uninsured work on your property. I don't care what the agent tells you either. If you can't find it written, or even if you can, expect to receive a fight if something comes up.

For whatever reason, liability insurance is especially high for pool contractors. When I added pool plastering to my insurance, my carrier dropped me the next day and in searching for a new premium, I found the policies to be a few thousand dollars more expensive. The whole thing is odd to me because I did heavy structural remodeling and framing before but as soon as pool was mentioned the rates skyrocketed.
 
That list is a good one. It is something TFP will be making into an article one day. It is a work in progress.

Suz is our search queen! I really don't know what I would do without her!

No licenses or insurance no work on my property. It just is NOT worth it. I ask to see the paper work to top things off. "oh I left it at the office." Okay so have them fax it to me...............they hang their head and leave having to admit the lied to me.

Ask ANY question you have. We love to help!

:hug:

Kim:kim:
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
kimkats said:
That list is a good one. It is something TFP will be making into an article one day. It is a work in progress.

Suz is our search queen! I really don't know what I would do without her!

No licenses or insurance no work on my property. It just is NOT worth it. I ask to see the paper work to top things off. "oh I left it at the office." Okay so have them fax it to me...............they hang their head and leave having to admit the lied to me.

Ask ANY question you have. We love to help!

:hug:

Kim:kim:
Click to expand...

Thanks Kim for the compliment. The feeling is mutual with you and TFP. (example below)

Yorker, if you hadn't posted your question, I wouldn't have read Kim's reminder to get proof of insurance from workers at my home in the next few weeks. I'm getting bids for replacing my 28 yo pressed wood siding chewed up by squirrels and rats. It's very tempting to go with the independent remodeler with the lowest bid who seems to know more, but this reminds me to think with my head and not my pocket book.

Thanks Yorker! You never know whom you're helping with your question.
Suz
 
Thanks BD, Kim & Suz,

I actually appreciate hearing those things I don't want to hear. It forces my inner voice (aka "Little York":) to smack some sense into me when I am not fully thinking.

I might add that in the past when I HAVE received those letters of insurance, I do call the insurance company to verify the names, address and other information to confirm they are actually insured.

On another note one of the insured PB's I was leaning towards (and the least expensive from that list) has proven to be the most responsive and detailed.There quotes list all items I requested and in the manner I asked for them. When I asked for three referrals of builds they have done in the past three years,they produced seven.

This caused me to think ... What questions should I ask? My search of the TFP site did not uncover any list of those type of questions, but again,I generally don't get very good results with many of internet searches.So ... here's the list I came up with.

QUESTIONS TO ASK REFERRALS

Would you hire this contractor again?
If not, why? Was there something particular about the contractor, their crew or the project that you didn’t like?

What work did this contractor do for you?
New Build or Remodel?
Pool size:
Spa size, # of jets:
Saltwater or chlorine:
Coping/Landscaping/Cement/Pavers … other:
How actively involved were you during the project? (1 to 10)

Communication
Was adequate detail contained in the contract?
(ie:equipment model numbers, types of materials will be used, who will be performing the work, start and projected completion dates and how change orders should be handled?

How close was the actual completion date to what was projected?

When the project was completed, how informed did you feel regarding the operation of the equipment, chemicals and automation?

How much contact have you had with the contractor since the projected was completed?
What was it for?
How satisfied were you with the resolutions?

Contractor/Lead/Crew/Subs
Who were the leads that you had the most contact with?

Were they easy to work with?

Did the contractor/lead take the time to explain each phase and provide you with the status on a regular basis?

How accessible and responsive were they to answer time sensitive questions?

Quality of the crew and sub-contractors, how informed did you feel they were to the specifications that were unique to your build? (1 to 10):

Were you provided a lien waiver in the contract to guarantee you wouldn't be responsible for payments to subcontractors or material suppliers?

Time
How often was the contractor/lead at the site?
How often was a crew at the site?
Did they show up when they were expected?
What hours did they work?

Misc
Did your job come in according to budget?

If not,what types of problems or delays affected the overall cost? If the project came in under budget, did you have to sacrifice anything?

Did you feel job changes were charged at a fair rate?

Was there any damage to your property?
If so, did they repair it to your satisfaction?

Equipment
Pump manufacture/size:
Filter manufacture/size:
Heater manufacture/size:
Solar Heating:
Automation manufacture:
Water Features?
 
Ok, now I have a new question. I just realized that the quotes the PB's have given me are titled "Proposal". and there is a place for a signature. I assume that a proposal is different than a contract. At first I thought if I sign a proposal am I committed to this PB, but if they then come to me with a contract with terms we cannot agree on, does that mean I'm off the hook and the signed proposal is voided?
 
Yorker look at Suz's post #26. There is a clickable link in it. It is along the lines of what you came up with.

We will be working on making an article along these lines. It is a work in progress and I hope it will be done one day :roll:

Kim:kim:
 
Kim, that link goes to a list of what to look for in each stage of the build. Yorker's list includes questions to ask the pool owners who are on the PB's reference list.

Yorker, I don't remember seeing a list for those questions. Thanks for doing that. I think I scratched off one for myself when I was calling the references. I'll see if I still have it.
 
Geeze - it's Father's Day and I promised our furry "son" Bosco he'd get a walk. Unfortunately, my earlier questions on Proposal vs Contract brought up another thing I've wanted to understand... Bonds. How important is having a PB that is Bonded?

So what does my search bring up...? BondING, something entirely different, extremely important and yet I now I must learn at least something about. Especially when I read that people have posted that many electricians confuse bonding and grounding... eek!

I'm working on how I will phrase my questions to the PB to determine their level of knowledge, rather then them telling me what they think I want to hear.

I just explained to Bosco that it is too hot for his walk right now cuz dad's got more reading ta'do... dun't think he understands.

When the heck will I get to swim?
 
You can't be licensed in California without a current bond. The minimum amount is $15,000.

General liability insurance is optional and can be very expensive.

If the contractor has any employees then he needs workers comp insurance as well. This is insanely expensive since it often equates to 30% of payroll.

Perhaps you can now see why an illegal, unlicensed, uninsured contractor can bid so low in comparison. If something goes wrong, all this guy has to do is not answer the phone.

A legit contractor has several thousands of dollars to clear before a profit can be turned. California laws in regards to construction are heavily in favor of the homeowner.

Have you considered doing an owner/builder?
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply