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Thread: This pool is killing me

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    This pool is killing me

    Test results (leslie Pool supply)
    FC: 0
    CH: 520
    CYA: 150
    TA: 120
    PH: 8
    ACid Demand: 3
    TDS: 2000
    phosphates: 500

    The problem: currently slight yellow algae growth on walls and skimmer intake area. On and off for years. I get it "cleared" but it comes back regularly. currently about 103F outside in daytime and 75F at night.

    History: built in 2011. SWG originally, converted to chlorine 1 yr ago. Using trichlor tabs and cal-hypo (73%) powder to shock when yellow (advice per leslie's). Pool was drained and acid washed in March 2016. Still using original filter. The cost of the replacement filter is like $800 (i'm not joking. Its literally the most expensive one possible). I believe I will be buying a brand new filter system: either a sand filter or a more reasonable to replace cartridge filter (I have researched some that are the appropriate size but the replacement filters are much more reasonable. still pentair)

    I found this sight a few weeks ago.
    what I think I know from the research on the threads here:
    I have ordered the TF-100 kit.
    I understand that the CYA is too high as well as the CH and TDS. This will need a full/partial drain.
    I plan on doing the trouble free pool system with liquid chlorine if I can.

    Questions:

    How do I get this back on track?
    In what order do I: Shock, drain, replace filter system?
    should i slam this sucker before I drain (not sure if even possilbe with CYA so high)
    do i dare get a new filter with the water contaminated?
    will I ever get the current filter clean enough to get rid of the algae?

    How do I drain in this awful heat without damaging my plaster?
    At what level should somoene in AZ climate have their CYA, CH and TDS
    tap water has TDS of 500 here to begin with

    Should I go with a newer cartridge or try out the sand filter?
    I have 4 kids
    Pool is used 95% in the daytime
    I have a desert wash (open field) behind my house
    no water restrictions

    I know its a lot of info and questions but I tried to keep the info tight and complete. Please help me out. Its killing me here.
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

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    slinkyra531's Avatar
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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettkarren View Post
    Test results (leslie Pool supply)
    FC: 0
    CH: 520
    CYA: 150
    TA: 120
    PH: 8
    ACid Demand: 3
    TDS: 2000
    phosphates: 500

    The problem: currently slight yellow algae growth on walls and skimmer intake area. On and off for years. I get it "cleared" but it comes back regularly. currently about 103F outside in daytime and 75F at night.

    History: built in 2011. SWG originally, converted to chlorine 1 yr ago. Using trichlor tabs and cal-hypo (73%) powder to shock when yellow (advice per leslie's). Pool was drained and acid washed in March 2016. Still using original filter. The cost of the replacement filter is like $800 (i'm not joking. Its literally the most expensive one possible). I believe I will be buying a brand new filter system: either a sand filter or a more reasonable to replace cartridge filter (I have researched some that are the appropriate size but the replacement filters are much more reasonable. still pentair)

    I found this sight a few weeks ago.
    what I think I know from the research on the threads here:
    I have ordered the TF-100 kit.
    I understand that the CYA is too high as well as the CH and TDS. This will need a full/partial drain.
    I plan on doing the trouble free pool system with liquid chlorine if I can.

    Questions:

    How do I get this back on track?
    In what order do I: Shock, drain, replace filter system?
    should i slam this sucker before I drain (not sure if even possilbe with CYA so high)
    do i dare get a new filter with the water contaminated?
    will I ever get the current filter clean enough to get rid of the algae?

    How do I drain in this awful heat without damaging my plaster?
    At what level should somoene in AZ climate have their CYA, CH and TDS
    tap water has TDS of 500 here to begin with

    Should I go with a newer cartridge or try out the sand filter?
    I have 4 kids
    Pool is used 95% in the daytime
    I have a desert wash (open field) behind my house
    no water restrictions

    I know its a lot of info and questions but I tried to keep the info tight and complete. Please help me out. Its killing me here.
    I do not have an inground pool but I would say your order should be drain/refill, shock, scrub walls, floor and any other little nooks and crannies you can to ensure the pool is clean and then I would replace your filter. As far as the filter type, it is a matter of personal preference. They all have their positives and negatives. You can read this thread, Pool School - Pool Filter Comparison, to help you make a decision.
    24'x52" Above Ground Pool, Hayward Sand Filter, 1 HP Hayward PowerFlo Matrix Dual Speed pump, In-line Chlorine Feeder (only used when on vacation), AquaLuminator return light (customized with color changing LED light), all plumbing done with Schedule 40 PVC
    & 2004 Elite Spas Monterey Hot Tub (~400 gallons) with Controlomatic Technichlor SWG - Use Taylor K-2006 test kit with K-1766 addition and speed stir on both.

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    domct203's Avatar
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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Welcome me to the forum!

    Great job taking your first steps to a Trouble Free Pool by ordering a proper test kit.

    You should wait wait until your test kit arrives and we get some good test results before you do anything major to the pool. We have seen pool $tore results be quite inaccurate time and time again.

    I recommend you add one 96 oz jug of plain old 8.25% laundry bleach daily until your kit arrives. Nothing scented or splashless, just plain bleach. This will add 4ppm to your FC to try to 'hold' the algae where it is. Once we get some valid test results from you we can plan your strategy.

    You are correct to be concerned with draining a plaster pool in that heat. If you don't keep the pool walls wet the plaster will quickly deteriorate in that strong sun.

    A filter does not eliminate algae, chlorine does. The filter just catches debris, and it sounds like yours is doing that indeed. Once your pool is clear you may find that the filter is fine for your needs.

    BTW- we never 'shock' our pools, as in a one time application of a large amount of chlorine.

    We methodically SLAM the pool (https://www.troublefreepool.com/content/125-slam-shock-level-and-maintain-shockingl) until it is clear of organic contaminants.

    Nice to have you here, thanks for posting.
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Intex 15K SWG | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    I'll add to Dom's excellent response that we don't worry about TDS here.

    In AZ, the reason you'll drain your pool from time to time is CH (calcium hardness) due to our very hard water, and in your case, CYA from prior tablet use. Please also heed Dom's advice on draining in this heat. Even at 85 degrees, your pool plaster will need to be sprayed at least every 15 minutes with a hose - with temps over 100 right now, you'll want to be out there spraying nearly continuously.

    Search around the site here - people have had good luck reducing CYA by either using a very large tarp to drain from the bottom of the pool while filling on top of the tarp over the pool. If you have a main drain, others have been able to get a good reduction by draining via the main drain, while adding fresh water near the surface in the shallow end, allowing the higher density of the saltier existing water to keep it lower in the pool.

    Either way, don't drain until you have your test kit and can perform a diluted CYA test to get a "real" CYA number.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    Pentair WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, Pentair CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, Pentair SunLite, AutoFill.
    Kreepy Krauly Cruiser, TF-100 with SpeedStir. :D

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: This pool is killing me

    I wouldn't do squat until I had my own test results besides keep the pH in range and FC up. You're working blind, so maybe 1 jug of plain 8.25% household bleach per day. And of course brushing and vacuuming.

    520 CH is easily managed.
    150 CYA is not. Not if there's algae. But we don't know if it;s really 150 or if it's 120 or if it's 200. The graduations on the CYA test tube stop at 100 and they get very close together at the high end, so what looks like 150 could well be 250. When you get your TF100, run the CYA test. If it reads higher than 90, repeat the test using the dilution method. That's step 8 here Pool School - CYA

    Then you'll know how much to drain and replace. Once that's done and you're armed with a test kit, whipping that pool into shape should be easy. Schedule a big barbeque swim party for Fourth of July so you have incentive.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Quote Originally Posted by triptyx View Post
    I'll add to Dom's excellent response that we don't worry about TDS here.

    In AZ, the reason you'll drain your pool from time to time is CH (calcium hardness) due to our very hard water, and in your case, CYA from prior tablet use. Please also heed Dom's advice on draining in this heat. Even at 85 degrees, your pool plaster will need to be sprayed at least every 15 minutes with a hose - with temps over 100 right now, you'll want to be out there spraying nearly continuously.

    Search around the site here - people have had good luck reducing CYA by either using a very large tarp to drain from the bottom of the pool while filling on top of the tarp over the pool. If you have a main drain, others have been able to get a good reduction by draining via the main drain, while adding fresh water near the surface in the shallow end, allowing the higher density of the saltier existing water to keep it lower in the pool.

    Either way, don't drain until you have your test kit and can perform a diluted CYA test to get a "real" CYA number.

    I am still waiting on my TF-100 kit. was supposed to be delivered yesterday. I called and now the new date is tomorrow. Frustrating because we are having slightly lower temps for today and tomorrow (90s in day and 60s at night). This might be the only time in the next few months that we go this "low". I plan on doing a partial drain right at sunset. Do you think i still need to wet the walls every 15 min even when the sun is down? I was hoping for every couple of hours, since I need to go to work the next day. I can't stay up all night.
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    You should wait for your test kit. And research using a tarp to exchange your water. Search in this forum as there have been several threads on it.

    You should keep your plaster wet, but it is less critical at night. Remember that it will take quite some time to refill even a partial drain.

    Take care.
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit.

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Quote Originally Posted by triptyx View Post
    I'll add to Dom's excellent response that we don't worry about TDS here.

    In AZ, the reason you'll drain your pool from time to time is CH (calcium hardness) due to our very hard water, and in your case, CYA from prior tablet use. Please also heed Dom's advice on draining in this heat. Even at 85 degrees, your pool plaster will need to be sprayed at least every 15 minutes with a hose - with temps over 100 right now, you'll want to be out there spraying nearly continuously.

    Search around the site here - people have had good luck reducing CYA by either using a very large tarp to drain from the bottom of the pool while filling on top of the tarp over the pool. If you have a main drain, others have been able to get a good reduction by draining via the main drain, while adding fresh water near the surface in the shallow end, allowing the higher density of the saltier existing water to keep it lower in the pool.

    Either way, don't drain until you have your test kit and can perform a diluted CYA test to get a "real" CYA number.
    you mentioned draining from the main drain? I'm not sure how I would drain my pool using a main drain. Can you elaborate. Meanwhile, I'm looking through threads about this topic. Thanks
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

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    triptyx's Avatar
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    Re: This pool is killing me

    It all depends on how your pool is plumbed.

    If you can post a picture of your equipment pad that will be a good start. We need to figure out how your pool is plumbed.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    Pentair WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, Pentair CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, Pentair SunLite, AutoFill.
    Kreepy Krauly Cruiser, TF-100 with SpeedStir. :D

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Don'tcha just wish you could snatch the Leslie's pool store folks there in AZ and ask them what they were *thinking*!?!?! To encourage the use of calcium products in an area of the country you're in is preposterous! Now, someplace like Florida with constant rain and water replacements...they can get away using some of those products if used judiciously. Grrrrrrrrrr!!

    That said <brushes anger off shoulders>.... another option in your area is Reverse Osmosis. Its like Dialysis for pool water. It ain't cheap, but it saves a lot of headaches and worries about emptying the pool in summer heat. I believe you can't have a current algae outbreak though but am not positive if the water is clear and not green? Might be worth checking in to

    Maddie
    Maddie- TFP Guide. 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Don'tcha just wish you could snatch the Leslie's pool store folks there in AZ and ask them what they were *thinking*!?!?! To encourage the use of calcium products in an area of the country you're in is preposterous! Now, someplace like Florida with constant rain and water replacements...they can get away using some of those products if used judiciously. Grrrrrrrrrr!!

    That said <brushes anger off shoulders>.... another option in your area is Reverse Osmosis. Its like Dialysis for pool water. It ain't cheap, but it saves a lot of headaches and worries about emptying the pool in summer heat. I believe you can't have a current algae outbreak though but am not positive if the water is clear and not green? Might be worth checking in to

    Maddie
    I'll look into that. Thanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by triptyx View Post
    It all depends on how your pool is plumbed.

    If you can post a picture of your equipment pad that will be a good start. We need to figure out how your pool is plumbed.
    I'll grab some pictures of the equipment later today and post.
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    I got my test kit and the results were the same as what Leslie pool had except CH was 750. CYA was 160
    so what should be my next steps?
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    You either need to exchange out the bulk of your water using the tarp method or utilize reverse osmosis.

    Either of those will drop our CH to low levels along with your CYA.

    Good luck --
    6000 Gallon IG Fiberglass with integrated Spa
    Pentair CCP240 Cartridge Filter with Pentair Intelliflow 3050VS Pump and Pentair HTR250 heater. IC40 SWG. EasyTouch 4. TF 100 Test Kit.

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    [QUOTE=triptyx;1258680]It all depends on how your pool is plumbed.

    If you can post a picture of your equipment pad that will be a good start. We need to figure out how your pool is plumbed.[/

    IMG_9272.jpg
    Here is a quick picture of my equip. Let me know if you need another angle.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Depending on your ability to stay up late you might be able to get away with some partial drains and refills at night. Start draining when sun is off Pool In evening, and fill back up before sun is out in morning. I just did a drain and refill back in April, I had high speed pump that drained pool from 6pm-midnight and used 4 hoses to get it filled back up by noon. I did keep plaster wet the few hours the sun was out.

    Temps were a little cooler then, so I would be more inclined to do partial drain/refill now instead of full drain. Drain enough to have pool filled back up by 8am (or even earlier if your pool gets a lot of sun at sunrise).
    16,000 gallon in-ground pebble tec pool. Hayward SP3400VSP Eco-Star Pump, Pentair Triton 2 TR-100 sand filter, A&A 5-port in-floor pool cleaner, and most importantly a Taylor K-2006C test kit.

    Test Kits Compared
    | SLAM | Chlorine / CYA Chart |

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    I took some of the advise from around here and ended up doing a partial drain just after sunset because the temps were cool. I drained about 60% of the pool and used a few hoses to refill.

    Is is there a time period that I need to wait before I retest the water?
    right now it's sitting with zero chlorine and a little yellow algae on the walls. Should I slam it next? When should I do this?
    in the meantime, should I just throw a gallon of liquid chlorine in randomly until it's ready to test and slam?
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

  17. Back To Top    #17
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    Re: This pool is killing me

    First order - retest CYA. Then test pH and FC. If your CYA was actually reduced to by 60%; your new number should be about 65 - say 70. Still high but manageable and likely preferred for AZ. Prepare to Slam. Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

    If CYA is 70 ppm, your Slam target is 28 ppm FC. Get a lot of bleach and hopefully you have time to add, test and maintain the FC @ 28. Let us know your CYA.

    You can do all of your testing now, assuming your pump has been running for at least 30 mins.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Once the water is high enough to turn on pump, I would add a gallon and let it circulate until it's full. Once full, do a set of tests and post. Ultimately, you're going to need to SLAM but you need to know the new CYA first
    16,000 gallon in-ground pebble tec pool. Hayward SP3400VSP Eco-Star Pump, Pentair Triton 2 TR-100 sand filter, A&A 5-port in-floor pool cleaner, and most importantly a Taylor K-2006C test kit.

    Test Kits Compared
    | SLAM | Chlorine / CYA Chart |

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    I did a quick PH check. 7.8.
    I added some acid but I had to go to work. So I added a gallon of 10% liquid chlorine which I think will raise the chlorine from 0 to about 6ppm.
    I'll do all my testing this afternoon and post the results.
    I have an uphill battle to fight with this mustard algae. I want it gone for good.
    16k Gal. IG. Plaster/quartz. Pentair 600 sqft Cartridge filter. Pentair variable speed pump. Pool built 2010. test kit: tf-100. chlorine. in floor cleaning system.

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: This pool is killing me

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettkarren View Post
    I did a quick PH check. 7.8.
    I added some acid but I had to go to work. So I added a gallon of 10% liquid chlorine which I think will raise the chlorine from 0 to about 6ppm.
    I'll do all my testing this afternoon and post the results.
    I have an uphill battle to fight with this mustard algae. I want it gone for good.
    good plan, and great job on getting the partial drain done overnight. We got hit with an abnormally cool evening, so perfect night to get it done.
    16,000 gallon in-ground pebble tec pool. Hayward SP3400VSP Eco-Star Pump, Pentair Triton 2 TR-100 sand filter, A&A 5-port in-floor pool cleaner, and most importantly a Taylor K-2006C test kit.

    Test Kits Compared
    | SLAM | Chlorine / CYA Chart |

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