Converting from Baquacil CDX to Chlorine

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Colaman: you would see specks of yellow stuff on the top. It is difficult to skim them because they dispurse when you hit them. Once the water clears you will have a pile of 'stuff' on the bottom. We used the vacuum hose and backwashed every 10 minutes. I changed our sand yesterday and it was really clean. I was surprised that it looked new! Must be something hidden within the grains!

Keep that pump running.
 
Right now, the most important thing is keeping your chlorine as close to 15ppm as possible; everything else can be handled later on. Just focus on testing and dosing and keeping the water moving and filtered. Watch the filter pressure and be sure to backwash as soon as the filter pressure is 25% higher than clean pressure. I know it can feel like a waste adding chlorine during the day only to have the sun rob you of most of it, but the portion that does react with the baquacil is helping you. The better you maintain 15ppm FC, the faster the process will go.

Keep taking pictures and post them, the record helps you see progress. If you setup a free account on a photo-hosting website (like google pictures or some others), then you can simply add those image link codes to a post and the TFP forum software will go get the image and display it.
 
farmerpatti: good to know, can't wait to see the bottom so I can give it a thorough vacuum job! Good job on getting your filter sand replaced. If it was so clean and not all 'gooped' up, and you were passing your OCLT, why did you change the sand? Was it because it's one of the final steps on the conversion check list? I'm just curious if it would have been totally necessary when your sand didn't look as scary as some other pics that have been posted of others' filters after the completion of the conversion. Maybe it's just a preventative measure just to be safe and prevent issues down the line? Sorry if this was already answered in another post.
 
Hi Matt: Thanks again for the suggestions! I'm over 2.5days into the conversion and have been topping up to 15ppm every 1-2hrs from 7am~11pm. Yesterday morning and this morning the FC was at about 11-11.5ppm after adding chlorine the previous night to ~15ppm. The water is starting to clear up and is looking more like lemonade instead of the previous Lemon Lime Kool-Aid/Gatorade and/or even Mountain Dew at times. It feels good to finally start seeing more of the steps and bottom surface of the shallow end of the pool. Just FYI, when the sun is shining on the pool, it seems to need about 0.75gal per hour of 10% chlorine. Thanks for the tip about the filter pressure, it has been pretty steady and hasn't really increased all that much and there luckily is still no sign of visible goop.

It looks like there's some rain in the forecast later this week. I imagine that will make it difficult to test/pass the OCLT. I'm wondering about the following topics when considering the OCLT:

1) If the water is crystal clear and a high possibility of rain is in the forecast overnight, should I not plan to perform the OCLT since the pool water would be diluted and could affect the FC results compared to the previous night? I'd probably still add enough chlorine to keep 15ppm FC (unless there are other suggestions?) since there's a chance of lots of water being added, but I'm just wondering about the validity of the test in rain situations.

2) How vital is the 15ppm FC reading during the heat of the day if the water is crystal clear? Just wondering if it's OK to maintain a lower FC (as others have mentioned) until it's time to adjust to 15ppm in the evening in preparation for the OCLT (in the interest of saving time/supplies/money on chlorine when sunny). If a lower FC is allowed, what do you recommend?


Thanks again!
 
Just wanted to post an update... everyday the water has been getting clearer and over the past couple days, we could finally see the bottom the deep end (by ~day#4)! The 3-4 minute filter backwash 2 days ago seemed to help things along. Backwashed again last night due to the added rain water from yesterday.

Even though the water itself is clearing up, it's still not "crystal" clear. It's currently a light green/yellow color and I'm starting to think it's caused by all the well water I've had to add since the spring opening and all the filter back flushes. I also have rust stains on the pool surface from last year (as a pool newbie, I failed to use a sequestrant early last season) that I'm interested in removing, possibly with Citric or Ascorbic Acid. I've read that FC should be almost 0 for that treatment, but that it's also not good to go back up to shock levels directly after the stain removal treatment. Is now a good time to do this treatment since it's easy to get the FC to 0 and since I'll be changing the sand in the filter soon? Or should I stay on the normal track and as long as the OCLT passes, change sand, add CYA, bring chlorine level up to 15ppm again, then once it goes back down add sequestrant and/or AA? Any recommendations are appreciated. Would love to clear up the water as quick as possible.

FYI: Performed the first OCLT 2 nights ago... I must have not performed the FC test properly because the reading at 11pm yesterday (2hrs after last bleach addition) was 15ppm and the next morning at 6am it was 17ppm. Maybe I didn't use enough R-0870 powder last night? Maybe I should also take a larger sample and store it in a dark room in case I need to retest, as others have. I still have a decent supply of R-0870 and R-0871 from the TF-100 kit, but just ordered the XL option in case I start having multiple attempts at the OCLT with forecasted rain that could delay/affect some tests.

Does anybody have a suggestion on how to deal with the rain for the OCLT? I'm guessing it would void the test if it rained a lot, but if it was a light rain and it still passes the 1ppm or less criteria, than it should still count, right? With the rain from last night, I went from 16.5ppm last night to 13.5ppm this morning... I also had the pump off to avoid excess water from rising the pool level above the recommended skimmer level for proper flow. As a new pool owner, I'm not sure if it would have hurt anything if the pool level increased above the recommended level other than not allowing for proper filtration through the skimmer (I didn't want to damage the pump or anything if water flow may have been restricted for some reason?).

Nevermind about my 2nd question in the above post, I see the comment in the conversion instructions about it being more prudent to test and add chlorine in the evening toward the middle of the conversion. I think I'm at that point, so I'm just looking forward to no rain in the forecast tonight to perform a legit OCLT with the pump running overnight.

Thanks again for any suggestions!!
 
Colaman....Yes, it was the step to complete the conversion and after all that work, I didn't want to 'chance' messing up a good thing! Besides, I'm the type that usually follows instructions. I'm glad I did it because I know for sure the sand is clean. When I got to the laterals on the bottom, they actually did have some of the goo on them, so used a toothpick to work them out along with some hard hitting water. I'll bet you can now see the bottom and you are well on your way to completion!
 
colaman....On the OCLT test, I took a sample 30 minutes after I chlorined up to FC15, tested it then put the remaining water into a cabinet that saw no sunlight. Then in the morning when I took my sample from the pool, I tested the new pool sample, as well as the cabinet one. They were the same...so I knew it passed.

Keep working on just going to FC15 after dark, testing in am. You loose so much from the sun that it is a waste in my opinion. Then as you are getting CYA established we only added the chlorine to FC15 at night again.....

Hope you are continuing to progress. We got hit with some pretty heavy downpours tonight...
 
farmerpatti: thanks for the quick replies and added tips! There's no rain in tonight's forecast, so I'm crossing my fingers for tonight's OCLT! (I have a jar in storage with tonight's sample, just in case.. thanks for the recommendation!).

Good call on the sand change... I'm looking forward to getting to that step! Sounds like a good Father's Day project if the OCLT numbers cooperate! :)
 
As a follow up to the water discoloration, I found an old post possibly confirming my suspicion about the iron in the well water:

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4048-Clorox-turns-water-brown-why


When I got home from work today, the water looked better. So I checked chlorine and topped up from 0.5ppm to FC15. When adding the liquid chlorine, the water started to get a brown/yellow tint to it... different from the bleach addition to Baquacil... but I guess I can't completely write that off as a possibility. However, the info in the above link about the bleach reacting to the iron in well water sounds familiar with what I'm dealing with at the moment.

Does anybody have recommendatikns on when I can add an HEDP sequesterant during the conversion process? Would HEDP affect FC readings? Is it considered part of the balancing process and should I just wait - or could the iron in the water affect the OCLT? Timing suggestions for the Ascorbic Acid treatment for rust stain removal would also be appreciated - wait till after conversion is complete?

Sorry if these questions were answered in another post, but I would appreciate any suggestions.
 

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Any sequestrant you add at this point will be a total waste, the high FC levels will destroy it. We can worry about metals later. For now, just focus on the conversion.
 
Thanks for the quick confirmation, Matt! Thanks for steering me in the right direction. I'll wait until the conversion is complete, then let the FC naturally fall to a point where I can add the sequestrant and possibly perform the AA treatment for stain removal at that time as well. Do you think it's ok to use Ascorbic Acid so soon after the conversion?
 
I would suggest trying ProTeam Metal Magic before the AA treatment. We've had a couple of metal staining threads (one vinyl pool and one FG pool) where MM seemed to work a lot better than the typical AA treatment.

Once we (well, really, YOU), get your pool converted and balanced we'll take a look at the options.
 
Thanks for the recommendation on the MM... I'll look into those threads. I know I haven't really given you any details about the staining or iron in well water situation, but in general, you would prefer MM over Jack's Magic Pink or Purple Stuff? Just trying to line up all the goods in advance so I'll be ready when we get to that point (in case they're not locally available and I need to order online). Thanks in advance for the staining/metals support after we get the conversion out of the way! :)


As an update from last night's test, we had a 3-4ppm FC loss overnight. One thing I did differently last night was skim and vacuum instead of brushing (I was running out of sunlight and the mosquitoes were vicious!)... so I'm not sure if the slow vacuuming didn't allow good mixing of the chlorine, but I did wait ~2hrs after the last chlorine addition to take last night's sample, so you'd think that'd be OK, right? Also, had a decent sized FROG in the skimmer basket that must've been there for a few hours (sorry, he didn't make it)... probably a stupid question, but could 1 frog cause an increase in chlorine demand overnight? :scratch:

I also commented on Poolnewbie2016's post, but we were wondering if the overnight chlorine loss could be attributed to the CDX somehow being lodged/stuck within the sand/filter, since CDX is added directly to the skimmer. I thought I read a comment from someone saying they put the filter on RECIRCULATE to see if the OCLT would pass w/o water flowing through the filter, but I can't find that post and don't remember if it worked. However, I'm wondering if the pros remember and would agree to this type of test? And if it passes in that situation, would it be OK to proceed to cleaning out the filter and replacing the sand since it seems like the cause could be attributed to possible trace amounts of Baquacil (possibly the CDX) products stuck in the filter somewhere? Just kind of looking for a yes or no about this step... maybe if it works, it can help other CDX converters reduce conversion time? I agree that sand shouldn't be replaced too early in the process, but at this point, we have relatively clear water and no goo/slime/etc., so I was just wondering if there would still be any risks? (sorry for thinking out loud in this post, but as always, any advice from the pros is always appreciated!) :thumleft:
 
Nothing is "stuck" in the filter. The CDX is added to the skimmer because they want it to disperse as uniformly as possible. Once the DMH is mixed into the pool water, it is EVERYWHERE. Adding chlorine directly to the skimmer, like any concentrated chemical, is a big No-No!

As Dori would say - "Just keep swimming...just keep swimming...", except in your case it's, "Just keep chlorinating....just keep chlorinating...."

And no, one dead frog overnight in the skimmer will not cause FC loss. I had a dead bird in my skimmer for probably 2 days before I found it....no FC loss and no one died swimming in the pool that day (but I didn't tell anyone either...).
 
Thanks for the reassurance, Matt! Haha... Glad nobody was hurt by the bird - the chlorine was really doing it's job!

We keep adding chlorine, mostly in the evening and early morning. Today is ~Day 10 and we've added over 51 gal total of 10%. (The cost of chlorine to date is probably equivalent to the first shipment of Baquacil chemicals, so I'm OK that it's taken this much so far) Yesterday the pool actually started looking 'crystal' clear. It almost looks better than our best days on Baquacil (which were limited ;)), so I'd like to think we're on the home stretch... however, as other CDX users have reported, sometimes it can take much more time to complete the conversion, so I'm cautiously optimistic. We are still losing between 3-4ppm FC overnight with CC coming in at 1.5ppm. Maybe another stupid question, but a return jet that is pointed slightly upwards causing some aeration on the pool's surface won't cause FC loss, right? :confused:

I must admit, the color change I mentioned the other day when adding chlorine must have been caused by traces of the Baquacil and not the iron in the water. The water does not change color any more when adding chlorine, other than noticing the color of the chlorine itself before diluting. The pool surface is still stained, and I'm sure there's iron in the water, but as you mentioned - we'll get that taken care of after the conversion is complete and I'm sure the pool will look better than ever. Attached is a pic of the current state of the pool taken this morning:
061917 AM.JPG


Since the pool is actually looking welcoming, and the FC drops to ~0.5 during the day, is the water OK for swimming? I will double check the pH, but assuming the FC is nowhere near shock level and the pH checks out, is it OK to use the pool? Any pointers are appreciated. (the wife and daughter have been very patient so far) :)
 
You're definitely in the "lonely & frustrating" stage of the conversion. If at all possible, an additional dose of chlorine midday, even without testing (just your best guess) would help. Perhaps your wife or someone might dump it in if it's a pre-measured bottle??

How about the sand filter, I know you've backwashed it but what would you say to opening it up a deep cleaning it? See here -
Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
Deep cleaning the sand might get rid of some buildup inside the filter and could help speed things along.

As for swimming, I would not advise it. Even at 1 ppm FC, the water will feel very harsh and be hard on bathing clothes as there is no CYA in the water. Without stabilizer to buffer and moderate the active chlorine levels, swimming would not be fun. Also, I'm not sure how much oxidized Baquacil product is left in the water, so I wouldn't want exposure to that.

Sorry, it stinks having a pool of decent looking water there and no way to swim in it. You'll get there soon and then everyday the water will look better than your best day on baquacil, promise!!
 
Thanks for the advice, Matt! When possible, I'll have my wife add some chlorine during the day. I'll also keep in mind the deep clean filter idea if it doesn't pass the OCLT soon. I figure I'll tear about the sand filter either way this weekend (for a deep clean or sand change if the OCLT passes). Just curious, if we think the filter is the source of some baqua buildup, would it also be an option to just change the sand at that time? Or are you thinking there could still be some trace baqua in the water that may still need to be filtered out and could get caught in the brand new sand? :scratch:

As an update, yesterday when I got home I saw the first signs of baqua goo that collected in the shallow end of the pool... light brown ~ yellow specs/particles. Vacuumed those to waste and backwashed the filter again. Topped up with water again, added chlorine, and finished by ~10pm. The overnight FC loss was the lowest I've seen @ 2~2.5ppm (CC @ 1.5ppm). I'll make sure to add chlorine earlier in the day about ~5pm today to allow it to do it's thing before evening/night time comes along.

Sidenote: I must admit, the wife was starting to doubt the whole process and may or may not have threatened to take a water sample to the pool store to get some more advice, lol. I was able to talk her off the ledge... then 1-2 days she became a believer and sent me the following picture while I was at work:
061917 PM.JPG
 
Don't change the sand unless you have passed the overnight chlorine loss test. You do not want any Baqua-goop in your new sand. I'm glad to hear you're getting close. The pool looks nice and, when you're done with the conversion, we can tackle any stain issues you might have.
 
Matt - as always, thanks for the recommendations and for keeping me on track. At about 11~12 days in, I'm pretty sure we passed the OCLT with a 0.5ppm FC loss overnight and CC @ 1.0ppm. I'm going to continue dosing throughout today, add some fresh (well) water, vac-to-waste some last traces of fluffy baqua-goo in the shallow end tonight (didn't have time to do it yesterday), and perform another OCLT tonight/tomorrow am.

I haven't even touched the ladder steps, but not in a big hurry to put those in - I will soak in bleach and/or use a toothbrush to get in all the grooves and crevices before dropping it in at a later date. Is that OK, or should I do it all now while FC is at 15ppm? My somewhat bigger concern is for the separate PVC line that is running to the water slide. Do you have any recommendations on how to handle any traces of Baquacil that may be in that line? I was thinking of flushing pool water through it for a few minutes and then possibly keeping the water cycling through that line during the day and/or night with FC still at shock level... not sure if that will affect another OCLT, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :confused:

Everyday the water keeps looking better and I'm not sure it can look any better besides the rust stains on the fiberglass surface - thanks for remembering and thanks in advance for the advice to help get rid of those stains! Going to get a big shop vac today to help with the filter sand removal project over the weekend.
062117 AM.JPG
 

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