Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 150

Thread: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

  1. Back To Top    #121

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    south east Arizona
    Posts
    407

    Re:  Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by BasicTek View Post
    I was commenting on one of the posts today in the SWG forum and my wife made this funny pic. I thought it would go great on this thread.

    Attachment 67036

    somewhere around 6,800 gal 18 x 4 foot round Intex Ultra Frame AG, finished filling August 29, 2013. toy pump w/ "A" cartridge up and running next day --- July 2015 upgraded to Krystal Clear 3000 GPH pump and 16" sand filter --- May 2016 Intex auto cleaner and in July salt system and Hayward skimmer

  2. Back To Top    #122

    TFP Guide

    Catanzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Monmouth County, New Jersey
    Posts
    3,056

    Re:  Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by richie0701 View Post
    From a recent experience, they tested my water at zero CYA last weekend. I added enough CYA based off that test to raise to 40ppm. When I got my test kit and tested it myself it was at 90ppm. Now I'm in the process of draining water to get it down. So I wasted money on chemicals and wasting time replacing water.
    My friends, who now own the TF-100 Test Kit kept going to Leslie's. There was no convincing them. Last year, I gave them the Taylor K-1000 as a gift. For some strange reason, they were holding no chlorine and Leslie's kept providing them excellent results. CYA at 40. Well guess what, the CYA was actually under 20, maybe even lower. A week later, with stabilizer in the pool and a week's worth of SLAMMING, and they have not been back to the pool store since.

    Wow, Taylor test kits at Leslie's and one of the most important test results was wrong. With hot weather, no wonder why they were not holding chlorine. At least in this case, no water needed to be drained, just $20 worth of stabilizer and a few gallons of bleach. The other tests were off as well, but not by that much. The amount of time back and forth waiting in line and expense was just not worth it.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

  3. Back To Top    #123
    ta2dwonderwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    fall river ks
    Posts
    503

    Re:  Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    It may be the same kind, but is it done correctly? Is it read correctly? Is honest and appropriate advice given? Only when you do the tests yourself will you know the answers to those questions.
    unless they go outside, their cya test is useless!
    Windy ☆ 22ft round, 11,400 gal, intex ag vinyl, SF70110-1 Intex sand filter/2800 gph pump, CS8110 intex swg, city water, TF100 test kit/speed stirrer, over the wall intex skimmer,Hayward HP50HA Above Ground Pool Heat Pump 50K~fall river ks~SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math

  4. Back To Top    #124

    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Central Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts
    38

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    I have had generally pretty fair results from my local pool shop for water analysis. The local guys have only had the business for 13 months and make no secret of a lack of experience. They came out to quote me for the replacement chlorinator and installation and thought my pool must be quite shallow because they could see the main drain so clearly. It's just on six feet deep there. These are the guys who are doing professional pool maintenance and they're not used to pools being that clear. That says a lot I think. My old test kit from last season had run out of reagents for CYA and the wife dropped in a sample for testing. The pool had just been refilled, and I knew how much salt and stabiliser I had added. I back calculated the volume of the pool for both salt and CYA concentrations reported and the two numbers agreed to a satisfactory degree of accuracy, so I'm comfortable that they got the analysis right despite the lack of time in the industry.

    With respect to testing, I think the main issue is that most pool shops are providing a free service for testing here. Now if you are running a commercial lab, you are giving a guarantee on your results, there can be a lot of money involved in the accuracy of those results and so you run regular calibrations, reagent blanks, random check samples and that's just internal verification. While the testers may well be school leavers, they are thoroughly trained, monitored and those check samples will show if they're doing something wrong. All results are reviewed by a qualified chemist before reports are released and it's his job to pick up if something looks screwy. If you are certified with any of the national or international accreditations then you would also have to run their check samples and your results are compared with everyone elses, you get regularly audited to ensure that you're doing everything right and the whole shebang costs a buttload of money. Take your water sample to a commercial lab for analysis and you will probably get billed up to two hundred dollars for those tests, but you can be absolutely confident in the results.

    In contrast the pool shop offers a free service and there is not a lot of checking and reviewing going on. I doubt that the kid on vacation break gets monitored very closely if at all. So the results will tend to vary depending on how much the person doing the tests knows and cares and how busy they are. Are there errors, almost certainly, they even happen in commercial labs, but the chances of the pool shop picking up that something is wrong are pretty small. It's not as if they keep a database of your water test results and can say, "Whoa there, what happened to all your stabiliser ? There was plenty last week." There probably are shonky operators and shonky chains, there are people like that in every industry. In some industries they dominate but that hasn't been my experience here. The tests are simple and reliable if you take your time and follow the instructions. Anybody can do it acceptably well. Getting some standards to check you accuracy is a very good idea too. Nobody will care as much about your pool as you do after all.
    35,000 Litre Concrete Pool, NZ White Pebble with blue and green glass beads.
    NSW Central Coast of Australia, Temperate climate.
    SWCG, Cartridge filter with hydrocyclone prefilter, Solar heater.
    Pool Cleaner: The Pool Cleaner

  5. Back To Top    #125

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Massapequa, NY
    Posts
    302

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    I'll jump into the discussion as a pool store employee. My store actually does use very good testing equipment and software, Lamotte Waterlink Express and Datamate software to be exact, and we have a Lamotte Spinlab as a backup in the store and for our service to do water testing. It costs us $5 just in UDVs or Spinlab cartridges to run any given water test. The chlorine is tested using DPD.

    However, I remember going into other local competition to get water tests done (my boss encourages employees going to competitors just to see how they do business) and there are definitely a lot of dip strip testers out there. So I can understand the frustration with less than reliable testing methods at pool stores. Water testing is a loss leader, so stores try to keep costs on that as low as possible.

    However there is a training aspect to it as well. Your average pools tore employee probably got that job as their first job (I did), is being paid minimum wage (I was), and depending on the training or oversight may not know what exactly they are doing even with the best equipment in the world. Personally, it took me a whole Memorial Day to Labor day season to be 100% confident with what I was doing in the water lab. And half the time you're actually giving bad advice if you're just going off the sheet the computer spits out. The guy who's been there a month doesn't understand throwing 10 lbs of Alkalinity in your pool isn't going to fix cloudiness, but that's what the computer said to do.

    Unless you know the guy behind the counter has a little experience under his belt, take everything with a grain of salt. Know if your local store actually had good equipment. And most importantly go easy on the guy behind the counter, chances are he's only been working a few months depending how short or long your pool season is.
    Aqua Products Certified Premier Service Technician, Maytronics Elite Service Technician, Hayward Authorized Robot Technician. I also dabble in pump, filter, and automotive repair.

    Need help choosing a Dolphin? Check out my thread on the features of each model.

  6. Back To Top    #126
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    'burbs of Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    8,678

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Thank you for your honest post, TheBombardier.

    So if you only use the DPD for FC....what do you tell them when its obviously more than just the 5 ppm the test block tops out at?

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

  7. Back To Top    #127

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Massapequa, NY
    Posts
    302

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Thank you for your honest post, TheBombardier.

    So if you only use the DPD for FC....what do you tell them when its obviously more than just the 5 ppm the test block tops out at?

    Maddie
    The reader will say "OVER RANGE" or top out at 5. Assuming they haven't just shocked the pool, at that point I'll usually say something along the lines of "Your chlorine's pretty high, pull the pucks out/turn down the chlorinator and don't add any shock for a couple days. Come back for a follow up test or test the chlorine tomorrow yourself." It's obviously pretty hard to troubleshoot a pool that's not in your backyard and you can't monitor every 12-24 hours. Also most of our customers are using pucks in a chlorinator/skimmer and not the typical method people around here like to use of putting in a little liquid shock every day. Also they probably won't come back for a follow up and then get mad when their pool turns green because they forgot to put the chlorine back in.

    Honestly though, I usually don't even consider high FC to be a real issue. It's not uncommon to see CYA levels at or above 50 so a high FC can usually be justified. If I see something along the lines of FC-5 TC-5 pH-7.2 TA-100 CH-200 CYA-50 Cu-0 Fe-0 that's one of the better pools I'm seeing that day.
    Aqua Products Certified Premier Service Technician, Maytronics Elite Service Technician, Hayward Authorized Robot Technician. I also dabble in pump, filter, and automotive repair.

    Need help choosing a Dolphin? Check out my thread on the features of each model.

  8. Back To Top    #128

    TFP Guide
    BattleOfYakima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,668

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by AusJohn View Post
    They came out (...) and thought my pool must be quite shallow because they could see the main drain so clearly. It's just on six feet deep there. These are the guys who are doing professional pool maintenance and they're not used to pools being that clear. That says a lot I think.


    Quote Originally Posted by thebombardier View Post
    I'll jump into the discussion as a pool store employee. My store actually does use very good testing equipment and software, Lamotte Waterlink Express and Datamate software to be exact, and we have a Lamotte Spinlab as a backup in the store and for our service to do water testing. It costs us $5 just in UDVs or Spinlab cartridges to run any given water test.
    Thank you for the store cost information. I've been to a pool store that used Lamotte testing and they charged $10 for a water sample analysis (waived if you purchased chemicals). I wondered how reasonable the price was, and now I know it is quite fair for people unwilling/uninterested to invest in their own kit or unable to perform the tests themselves give that it is both $5 materials and variable employee time running the actual tests and then conducting the resultant conversation that may or may not end in sales beyond the testing fee.
    If I was effective, and your pool makes you smile, please make me smile and CLICK HERE to Become a TFP Supporter!
    Also, please make AmazonSmile donate to TFP by CLICKING HERE, at no cost to you!
    My Florida Pool: 20k IG plaster cart K-2006 | Washington State Pool I help with: 17k AG vinyl sand TF-100

  9. Back To Top    #129

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Massapequa, NY
    Posts
    302

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleOfYakima View Post
    Thank you for the store cost information. I've been to a pool store that used Lamotte testing and they charged $10 for a water sample analysis (waived if you purchased chemicals). I wondered how reasonable the price was, and now I know it is quite fair for people unwilling/uninterested to invest in their own kit or unable to perform the tests themselves give that it is both $5 materials and variable employee time running the actual tests and then conducting the resultant conversation that may or may not end in sales beyond the testing fee.
    We charge $5, also waived if you buy chemicals (very rarely enforced though tbh). We want to at least recoup the materials cost from the people who are going to use our test then go buy stabilizer chlorine tabs at BJ's or Costco. I've had people walk out when they read the sign, chances are they don't want to be my customer anyway. No loss.
    Aqua Products Certified Premier Service Technician, Maytronics Elite Service Technician, Hayward Authorized Robot Technician. I also dabble in pump, filter, and automotive repair.

    Need help choosing a Dolphin? Check out my thread on the features of each model.

  10. Back To Top    #130

    TFP Guide
    BattleOfYakima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,668

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Fair enough! Just curious - does the Lamotte software suggest FC levels based on CYA level? (similar to FC/CYA Chart)
    If I was effective, and your pool makes you smile, please make me smile and CLICK HERE to Become a TFP Supporter!
    Also, please make AmazonSmile donate to TFP by CLICKING HERE, at no cost to you!
    My Florida Pool: 20k IG plaster cart K-2006 | Washington State Pool I help with: 17k AG vinyl sand TF-100

  11. Back To Top    #131

    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Central Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts
    38

    Re:  Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by ta2dwonderwoman View Post
    unless they go outside, their cya test is useless!
    That would depend very heavily on where they are, what time of year it is and what time of day it is. You really need to compare your results with a test on a standard solution to see if the lighting you are using is right.
    35,000 Litre Concrete Pool, NZ White Pebble with blue and green glass beads.
    NSW Central Coast of Australia, Temperate climate.
    SWCG, Cartridge filter with hydrocyclone prefilter, Solar heater.
    Pool Cleaner: The Pool Cleaner

  12. Back To Top    #132

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Massapequa, NY
    Posts
    302

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleOfYakima View Post
    Fair enough! Just curious - does the Lamotte software suggest FC levels based on CYA level? (similar to FC/CYA Chart)
    No it just has preloaded ranges that don't change unless you go into the options and change them manually. FC and TC are always 2-4. However we are trained when doing water tests to recognize higher stabilizer levels and to advise customers to more or less double their FC when the stabilizer is over 60. Again, that's just the level of customer service my boss strives for where if you just read the paper you're doing a bad job. And over 100, the printout won't even have any other instructions other than "Stabilizer High: Drain and Refill".

    The machine is smart enough though to make adjustments to reading based on other chemical levels though. It's been a while since I've done a water test because of the winter so I forget which ones exactly get adjusted but you'll see on the printout Alkalinity will have "with adjustment for X" next to it.
    Aqua Products Certified Premier Service Technician, Maytronics Elite Service Technician, Hayward Authorized Robot Technician. I also dabble in pump, filter, and automotive repair.

    Need help choosing a Dolphin? Check out my thread on the features of each model.

  13. Back To Top    #133

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    5

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    It's a shame those Lamotte spin lab tests suck so bad as it is... In my experience at least.
    Last edited by WolfeNY3213; 02-12-2018 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Correction
    10,000 gallon in-ground rectangular pebble tech pool. 1HP Whisperflo pump, Hayward C-900 cartridge filter, rainbow 320 chlorinator.

  14. Back To Top    #134

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Port Charlotte, FL
    Posts
    2

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    I actually work in a pool store as well. I also service pools. In our store we use the Taylor K-2005 standard reagents with the exception of alkalinity and calcium hardness. With those tests we have a titration system set up with the speed stirs. For our CYA test we use the pentair CYA test tube with the movable black dot you move up and down rather than pouring the solution in until it disappears. I have tested at home with my tf-100 and then tested at the store to compare and the only test that I see a discernible difference in is the CYA. Of course, at the store I test that indoors so that's likely the reason. Our results are pretty darn accurate. I have gone to several local competitors though and some of their results have been comical.
    In the pool service industry.

  15. Back To Top    #135
    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    17,474

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    ZionLG, the fact that you have a TF-100 and are able to confirm relatively consistent results is promising. As you pointed-out, not all facilities offer that type of testing accuracy and/or reliability, which is why we encourage pool owners to obtain a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C of their own. For your customers, it's good that you have some proven reliability to help them with.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  16. Back To Top    #136

    TFP Guide
    BattleOfYakima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,668

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Really nice to hear about some good pool stores, thanks again you guys!
    If I was effective, and your pool makes you smile, please make me smile and CLICK HERE to Become a TFP Supporter!
    Also, please make AmazonSmile donate to TFP by CLICKING HERE, at no cost to you!
    My Florida Pool: 20k IG plaster cart K-2006 | Washington State Pool I help with: 17k AG vinyl sand TF-100

  17. Back To Top    #137

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Port Charlotte, FL
    Posts
    2

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleOfYakima View Post
    Really nice to hear about some good pool stores, thanks again you guys!
    There are some of us out here that know our stuff. I learned everything I know from reading the forums here and servicing pools for the first hand experience to verify. I have never posted before, but I have researched extensively through the forums to educate myself so I could do my job better and help customers solve their problems more effectively.
    In the pool service industry.

  18. Back To Top    #138
    needsajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,513

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    When I type pool $tore, I hope it's interpreted as disdain and frustration, but not hate. I applaud the good people in the pool industry who speak out within their industry.

    As long as more chems and gadgets can be sold when poor advice is provided, I doubt anything will change. I think the same is true in most retail. It used to be that you had to watch out for few bad eggs, but inside corporate nowadays, if a spreadsheet somewhere shows that another $1000 can be made, and no one can prove it wrong, it happens. It's just the nature of the beast until more buyers vote with their feet than those who also buy a shovel to take up the manure.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

  19. Back To Top    #139

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Massapequa, NY
    Posts
    302

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    Quote Originally Posted by needsajet View Post
    When I type pool $tore, I hope it's interpreted as disdain and frustration, but not hate. I applaud the good people in the pool industry who speak out within their industry.

    As long as more chems and gadgets can be sold when poor advice is provided, I doubt anything will change. I think the same is true in most retail. It used to be that you had to watch out for few bad eggs, but inside corporate nowadays, if a spreadsheet somewhere shows that another $1000 can be made, and no one can prove it wrong, it happens. It's just the nature of the beast until more buyers vote with their feet than those who also buy a shovel to take up the manure.
    I know your frustration. I deal with customers on a near daily basis in season who have had nothing but frustration dealing with some local competition that will go unnamed. The business is built on selling snake oil and cheap Chinese equipment, and it's no secret on this side of the counter how shady some of their business practices are (in fact, the previous owner of my store helped the owner of that store start his business and left when he saw the direction it was going). Not to mention their service and repairs give customers the infinite runaround so they don't have to fix anything ,to the point Aquabot has literally told people to not take their warranty repairs there because they "have no idea what they're doing".
    Aqua Products Certified Premier Service Technician, Maytronics Elite Service Technician, Hayward Authorized Robot Technician. I also dabble in pump, filter, and automotive repair.

    Need help choosing a Dolphin? Check out my thread on the features of each model.

  20. Back To Top    #140

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Ocean Springs, MS
    Posts
    4

    Re: Why so much hate on pool store's water test?

    I would like to contribute to this thread from the perspective of a hardware store manager ... We use a Waterlink Spinlab from LaMotte. I've been pretty happy with it, but there have been times when I would test a sample twice in a row and get drastically different results. But I know when the results are off, because I talk to my customers and ask them what they've done recently, think about weather, look at previous results, etc. To me, as a hardware store manager, it's important to:


    • know which equipment works best (and/or what you can afford), and the limitations of what you do have
    • know how to recognize faults in the readings
    • spend a lot of time lurking on TFP learning from all the vast experience and expertise, rather than relying on the chemical sales rep's biased information
    • teach the homeowner about pool chemistry basics, and give them the power to learn more by sending them to TFP
    • use control samples to compare results periodically to physical strip tests and other stores to check whether calibration might be needed
    • not be a jerk and just hand people the recommendations on the sheet without explaining, crossing things out, explaining timing, etc.


    To homeowners and pool managers: It's ok to go to the pool store if you know what YOU'RE doing, so you can tell if the person you're buying from knows what SHE'S/HE'S doing and isn't just trying to sell you chemicals, and if you're willing to pay a premium for things you can buy at a cheaper price at grocery/hardware stores. Any test can be off, especially if you're inconsistent about taking samples. I had a customer that was getting high CYA readings and was about to drain water off their pool, but it turned out they were taking samples from the very top of the pool!

    In conclusion, I want to reiterate that I am selling you chemicals, and I can confirm that we are biased sources of information. Our information comes from our sales reps and blanket coverage recommendations from testing equipment companies, and even if you get a knowledgeable "veteran", there's still a good chance they will be biased. Learn how to check us!
    Last edited by jamescox; 03-29-2018 at 04:49 PM. Reason: Added the underlined portion about product cost

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •