Serious help needed

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Test at 1045 AM CST July 21st

FC 15.5

added


The slope going to the deep end is cleraly visible, and one can easily see the build up of the debris/sediment/dirt (whatever it is ?) in slight drifts. It appears to be of the same magnitude as the concentrations I first observed in the shallow end. I believe, I am also beginning (not sure, shadows and reflections) to see similar concentrations in the deep end. I can't say this for sure, but it may be. Hopefully, within a week we will see. In the meantime, I am slowly adding diluted DE to the skimmer as I think that helps.

Onward !:kim:
 
So if it's algae why is it not being solved by all of the gallons of chlorine?
Click to expand...

The short answer is all the organics in the pool still. However, I must say your pool is behaving much differently than mine. I would not be surprised if there is an underlying problem with filtration/circulation and I keep following this thread to see if I can pick up any keys or behavior that would indicate such (such as priming issue), but not so far and the experts here will probably pick it up faster than I will IF there is even one present. It just may be that you grew a lot more algae than I did. But even though I had a lot of what I think was black algae stuck to the liner the the water cleared much faster and I could go and scrub the area with the pool brush ever hour which then allowed the chlorine to kill the next layer and even though it would cloud the water a bit I could always see what I was doing and over a day or 2 it cleaned up. I got most of my silt out by back-washing blindly as described before, yes early on in the back washing process the basket would fill with junk and would have to clean but it never clogged other than at the baskets. I did intensively scoop out all the debris 1st and that may be where what I did and what you did parted ways. My biggest problem with back washing to waste was keeping water in the pool which for a day or so I had 3 hoses filling all the time so I could backwash. So I never had to do settlement tests but while I was getting pool $tore $schooled I did have broken laterals changed and a new spider gasket (actually top half of multi-port valve.) So I think when I finally started the SLAM my filtration and circulation system was working pretty good. I also think your near a point where your water will clear you will then be able to see it and get it as you did in shallow end. Again I think Swampwoman is the best person on the forum to clear swamps and deal with metals and that is not saying the other experts are not great also, I have just read a lot of threads where she got into some in depth technical discussions and she really knows her stuff. So I think your in good hands with her. And I think you are wise waiting her approval before vacuuming again which is what I always want to do, but I have seen other threads where she is looking at something way ahead and it would require too much time to explain all that she is thinking.
 
richardc - You're doing great! Keep posting the test results, asking your questions, and sharing observations about the pool/tests/chems/equipment.

Keep following Swampwoman's advice above all others (she is a very top tier expert on your exact situation and has followed you through it and will help you clear; remember her way is the right way).

Thank you everyone for encouraging richardc and showing your support and answering questions! TFP community is the best!

Friendly reminder to anyone joining the thread in the last few pages of the 27 total (so far) - this pool had extreme circumstances and is following personalized advice by our TFP experts. If you wish to answer questions for richardc, that's awesome, but please read the entire thread before doing so as general quick answers might contradict the personalized protocol being lead by Swampwoman's (and others') years of experience. We love your help, in this thread and others, but it is important we place the best interest of the original poster (OP) / pool owner (PO) above all other considerations when posting.
 
Pool Amateur said:
The short answer is all the organics in the pool still. However, I must say your pool is behaving much differently than mine. I would not be surprised if there is an underlying problem with filtration/circulation and I keep following this thread to see if I can pick up any keys or behavior that would indicate such (such as priming issue), but not so far and the experts here will probably pick it up faster than I will IF there is even one present. It just may be that you grew a lot more algae than I did. But even though I had a lot of what I think was black algae stuck to the liner the the water cleared much faster and I could go and scrub the area with the pool brush ever hour which then allowed the chlorine to kill the next layer and even though it would cloud the water a bit I could always see what I was doing and over a day or 2 it cleaned up. I got most of my silt out by back-washing blindly as described before, yes early on in the back washing process the basket would fill with junk and would have to clean but it never clogged other than at the baskets. I did intensively scoop out all the debris 1st and that may be where what I did and what you did parted ways. My biggest problem with back washing to waste was keeping water in the pool which for a day or so I had 3 hoses filling all the time so I could backwash. So I never had to do settlement tests but while I was getting pool $tore $schooled I did have broken laterals changed and a new spider gasket (actually top half of multi-port valve.) So I think when I finally started the SLAM my filtration and circulation system was working pretty good. I also think your near a point where your water will clear you will then be able to see it and get it as you did in shallow end. Again I think Swampwoman is the best person on the forum to clear swamps and deal with metals and that is not saying the other experts are not great also, I have just read a lot of threads where she got into some in depth technical discussions and she really knows her stuff. So I think your in good hands with her. And I think you are wise waiting her approval before vacuuming again which is what I always want to do, but I have seen other threads where she is looking at something way ahead and it would require too much time to explain all that she is thinking.
Click to expand...

First, thank you for taking the time to offer your input and support. It is much appreciated. Yes, I am following Swampwoman's advice and direction. I recognize her expertise, and sincere interest in helping me. By way of clarification, I did scoop, and wheelbarrow out lots of organics before attempting to slam.I had tons of decomposing leaves, roots, twigs, pine needles, and colonies of frogs, and tadpoles. The silt/small particles have remained as they have drifted to the pool floor, and are too small to be removed with a leaf net. In addition, once stirred they may dissipate into a cloudy haze that will require resettling. Vacuuming will work. Swampwoman suggests I wait for the deep end to clear so I can visualize what needs to be vacuumed.

I think my filter is working, albeit slowly, and with the effectivness of a 30 yr. old system. Others have suggested that a newer DE system would work much better and quicker. I do see the effectivness of DE as I am adding small diluted amounts to the strainer. I find that if I slowly add the right amount of diluted DE it will boost the filter's effectivness without too much drag on the system. Typically, using DE, the filter will need backwashing after 24-36 hours and the discharge will be very dirty.

When I had the pool up and running in its heyday, the filter and system worked fine. Algae was not a problem that could not be solved, and things worked just fine. My only complaint was the high cost of natural gas for heating the pool. After while, I managed the chemicals myself, but had a guy close the pool for the winter.

So, the bottom line from my perspective is that the filtration system works fine for handling everyday issues that a well maintained pool would face. However, it is not equipped for catastrophe or crisis level operation (is any pool ?). A newer filter system, such as a DE cartridge system (suggested by Mike) may be an upgrade worth considering once I reach normal maintenance levels. That's something to consider in the future, as several on this board have suggested I not make any changes during my SLAM. Most importantly, I have learned several lessons from this adventure, which I will share with the board once I am home free. Thanks for writing, and please continue to offer your input!
:kim:
 
BattleOfYakima said:
richardc - You're doing great! Keep posting the test results, asking your questions, and sharing observations about the pool/tests/chems/equipment.

Keep following Swampwoman's advice above all others (she is a very top tier expert on your exact situation and has followed you through it and will help you clear; remember her way is the right way).

Thank you everyone for encouraging richardc and showing your support and answering questions! TFP community is the best!

Friendly reminder to anyone joining the thread in the last few pages of the 27 total (so far) - this pool had extreme circumstances and is following personalized advice by our TFP experts. If you wish to answer questions for richardc, that's awesome, but please read the entire thread before doing so as general quick answers might contradict the personalized protocol being lead by Swampwoman's (and others') years of experience. We love your help, in this thread and others, but it is important we place the best interest of the original poster (OP) / pool owner (PO) above all other considerations when posting.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your clarification. It is much appreciated. Yes, I am following SWampwoman's advice and direction.The plan directed by SW is to wait for the deep end water to clear so that a slow vacuum can be performed. So that's where I am at. Each day I gain a bit more clarity, but its best to track it over larger time intervals. I can retake some photos as I am up and running with a new cell phone. Howver, we have more storms here, so that will interfere.

Thank you for your input and help. :cool:
 
Good morning, Richard. I have a wee bit of homework if you're up for it.

Today I'd like to catch up a bit and get a brief situation report and double check a few things so I don't lose track and misdirect you ;)
I do have another party tonight, but have a bit more time as its smaller than last week's circus...

1. Visibility is clearing on the slope but deep end still elusive, correct? So after the shallow end vac, clarity to shallow returned and depth visibility continued to progress by at least six inches a day or more, correct?

2. You describe the water in areas as clear, green and sparkly where it has cleared, correct?

3. On average, how much bleach (and what percentage are you using) are you losing each day?

4. How many ppm lost from night reading to a.m. Reading?

5. Do you have a new phone now to post a picture? If so, please do.

6. What is the psi on your filter? What psi is normal for you?


7. How far open is your main drain right now?


8. Just a double-check. Take a white sock and elastic. Attach to a return. Leave it for an hour. Take it off and put your hand in the sock. Can you feel any sand at all?

9. Just a confirmation: A. You used #20 pool sand, correct? Tell us what brand. (Last year there was a batch that was MIS-graded. I can go dig up the info once you report back. This is an outlier, so don't worry about it; it doesn't really change the course. I'm just trying to confirm that success is in our near future.)

10. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did either of you check the laterals for cracks and ensure the fit was snug?

11. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did you consult the Triton manual to fill to the correct line, leaving enough space?

12. Pressure relief valve...you said you didn't have one...but Triton manual says its a screw type (see link). Maybe your model is different, but I just wanted to make sure you can relieve the pressure if you end up doing further maintenance.
https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media/websites/pool/downloads/filters/manuals/triton_fiberglass_sand_filter_installation_and_users_guide_english_french_spanish.pdf


Thanks in advance for your answers. If possible, please post specific answer under each question.
Cheers to clear!
 

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Swampwoman said:
Good morning, Richard. I have a wee bit of homework if you're up for it.

Today I'd like to catch up a bit and get a brief situation report and double check a few things so I don't lose track and misdirect you ;)
I do have another party tonight, but have a bit more time as its smaller than last week's circus...

1. Visibility is clearing on the slope but deep end still elusive, correct? So after the shallow end vac, clarity to shallow returned and depth visibility continued to progress by at least six inches a day or more, correct?

2. You describe the water in areas as clear, green and sparkly where it has cleared, correct?

3. On average, how much bleach (and what percentage are you using) are you losing each day?

4. How many ppm lost from night reading to a.m. Reading?

5. Do you have a new phone now to post a picture? If so, please do.

6. What is the psi on your filter? What psi is normal for you?


7. How far open is your main drain right now?


8. Just a double-check. Take a white sock and elastic. Attach to a return. Leave it for an hour. Take it off and put your hand in the sock. Can you feel any sand at all?

9. Just a confirmation: A. You used #20 pool sand, correct? Tell us what brand. (Last year there was a batch that was MIS-graded. I can go dig up the info once you report back. This is an outlier, so don't worry about it; it doesn't really change the course. I'm just trying to confirm that success is in our near future.)

10. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did either of you check the laterals for cracks and ensure the fit was snug?

11. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did you consult the Triton manual to fill to the correct line, leaving enough space?

12. Pressure relief valve...you said you didn't have one...but Triton manual says its a screw type (see link). Maybe your model is different, but I just wanted to make sure you can relieve the pressure if you end up doing further maintenance.
https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media...on_and_users_guide_english_french_spanish.pdf


Thanks in advance for your answers. If possible, please post specific answer under each question.
Cheers to clear!
Click to expand...


QUOTE=Swampwoman;1303797]Good morning, Richard. I have a wee bit of homework if you're up for it.

Today I'd like to catch up a bit and get a brief situation report and double check a few things so I don't lose track and misdirect you ;)
I do have another party tonight, but have a bit more time as its smaller than last week's circus...

1. Visibility is clearing on the slope but deep end still elusive, correct? So after the shallow end vac, clarity to shallow returned and depth visibility continued to progress by at least six inches a day or more, correct?

Actaully, I don't feel that I lost any visibility after I vacuumed the shallow end. If I did it was neglible to my eye. However, after a day or so, I began to see more residue/silt on the floor in areas that I had vacuumed. But visibility has gradually improved a bit each day. However, I can't give you a specific measurement interms of inches each day. I can say that this, however. At one point I was using a tape measure to see how far down I could see in the shallow end. I strained to see the bottom. Then before I realized it in a few days, the bottom became totally visible. Same for the bottom stairs. So I went from almost clarity to total clarity as far as seeing the bottom in a few days.

2. You describe the water in areas as clear, green and sparkly where it has cleared, correct?

Yes, when I first approach the pool my reaction is wow, this water is clear, its clean, its almost sparkly. Today, I said to myself that it looks like a "sheet of glass", albeit a mint green one.

3. On average, how much bleach (and what percentage are you using) are you losing each day?

I am using aprox from 0 to 130 oz of 12.5 % chlorine per 2-3 hr measument depending on the Sun/time of day/length of time interval. For example, overnight last night, I lost aprox 3.5 ppm over a 12 hour period with heavy rainfall. The prior night I lost only .5 ppm. On the average I would say I am using about 1- 1 3/4 gallons per day.

4. How many ppm lost from night reading to a.m. Reading?

The prior night it was small, about .5-1. ppm, last night it was 3.5 ppm with a rainfall, and 3 hour additional time interval. I would say on teh average its about 1.5 ppm, give or take.

5. Do you have a new phone now to post a picture? If so, please do.

Yes, new phone will do.

6. What is the psi on your filter? What psi is normal for you?

Normal can vary from about 7 psi to 17 psi

7. How far open is your main drain right now?

Per your last directive, just slightly open.

8. Just a double-check. Take a white sock and elastic. Attach to a return. Leave it for an hour. Take it off and put your hand in the sock. Can you feel any sand at all?

Will do.

9. Just a confirmation: A. You used #20 pool sand, correct? Tell us what brand. (Last year there was a batch that was MIS-graded. I can go dig up the info once you report back. This is an outlier, so don't worry about it; it doesn't really change the course. I'm just trying to confirm that success is in our near future.)

The sand was purchased from Menards. It was pool sand, I believe its called #20 silica sand?

10. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did either of you check the laterals for cracks and ensure the fit was snug?

I did not do a thorough inspection as I was forwarned to be very delicate with them. Everything seemed to be in place from my nov ice perspective.

11. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did you consult the Triton manual to fill to the correct line, leaving enough space?

I changed the sand, and removed the old sand. My pool guy told me 300 lbs. So that's what I bought and installed ; 6 X 50 lb. bags. I had no manual and could not read the model number on the faceplate, as it has weathered over time. However, the amount of sand I installed appeared to match what was in the machine.

12. Pressure relief valve...you said you didn't have one...but Triton manual says its a screw type (see link). Maybe your model is different, but I just wanted to make sure you can relieve the pressure if you end up doing further maintenance.
https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media...on_and_users_guide_english_french_spanish.pdf

There is a pressure valve on top of the machine that is a screw in type thing. That is where the pressure meter is located. When I changed the sand I did unscrew the meter, and when I reaattached my readings appeared to be off. My pool guy reeassembled it and it appears to be fine.

Thanks in advance for your answers. If possible, please post specific answer under each question.
Cheers to clear![/QUOTE]
 
richardc said:
QUOTE=Swampwoman;1303797]Good morning, Richard. I have a wee bit of homework if you're up for it.

Today I'd like to catch up a bit and get a brief situation report and double check a few things so I don't lose track and misdirect you ;)
I do have another party tonight, but have a bit more time as its smaller than last week's circus...

1. Visibility is clearing on the slope but deep end still elusive, correct? So after the shallow end vac, clarity to shallow returned and depth visibility continued to progress by at least six inches a day or more, correct?

Actaully, I don't feel that I lost any visibility after I vacuumed the shallow end. If I did it was neglible to my eye. However, after a day or so, I began to see more residue/silt on the floor in areas that I had vacuumed. But visibility has gradually improved a bit each day. However, I can't give you a specific measurement interms of inches each day. I can say that this, however. At one point I was using a tape measure to see how far down I could see in the shallow end. I strained to see the bottom. Then before I realized it in a few days, the bottom became totally visible. Same for the bottom stairs. So I went from almost clarity to total clarity as far as seeing the bottom in a few days.

2. You describe the water in areas as clear, green and sparkly where it has cleared, correct?

Yes, when I first approach the pool my reaction is wow, this water is clear, its clean, its almost sparkly. Today, I said to myself that it looks like a "sheet of glass", albeit a mint green one.

3. On average, how much bleach (and what percentage are you using) are you losing each day?

I am using aprox from 0 to 130 oz of 12.5 % chlorine per 2-3 hr measument depending on the Sun/time of day/length of time interval. For example, overnight last night, I lost aprox 3.5 ppm over a 12 hour period with heavy rainfall. The prior night I lost only .5 ppm. On the average I would say I am using about 1- 1 3/4 gallons per day.

4. How many ppm lost from night reading to a.m. Reading?

The prior night it was small, about .5-1. ppm, last night it was 3.5 ppm with a rainfall, and 3 hour additional time interval. I would say on teh average its about 1.5 ppm, give or take.

5. Do you have a new phone now to post a picture? If so, please do.

Yes, new phone will do.

6. What is the psi on your filter? What psi is normal for you?

Normal can vary from about 7 psi to 17 psi

7. How far open is your main drain right now?

Per your last directive, just slightly open.

8. Just a double-check. Take a white sock and elastic. Attach to a return. Leave it for an hour. Take it off and put your hand in the sock. Can you feel any sand at all?

Will do.

9. Just a confirmation: A. You used #20 pool sand, correct? Tell us what brand. (Last year there was a batch that was MIS-graded. I can go dig up the info once you report back. This is an outlier, so don't worry about it; it doesn't really change the course. I'm just trying to confirm that success is in our near future.)

The sand was purchased from Menards. It was pool sand, I believe its called #20 silica sand?

10. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did either of you check the laterals for cracks and ensure the fit was snug?

I did not do a thorough inspection as I was forwarned to be very delicate with them. Everything seemed to be in place from my nov ice perspective.

11. When you or pool guy changed the sand, did you consult the Triton manual to fill to the correct line, leaving enough space?

I changed the sand, and removed the old sand. My pool guy told me 300 lbs. So that's what I bought and installed ; 6 X 50 lb. bags. I had no manual and could not read the model number on the faceplate, as it has weathered over time. However, the amount of sand I installed appeared to match what was in the machine.

12. Pressure relief valve...you said you didn't have one...but Triton manual says its a screw type (see link). Maybe your model is different, but I just wanted to make sure you can relieve the pressure if you end up doing further maintenance.
https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media...on_and_users_guide_english_french_spanish.pdf

There is a pressure valve on top of the machine that is a screw in type thing. That is where the pressure meter is located. When I changed the sand I did unscrew the meter, and when I reaattached my readings appeared to be off. My pool guy reeassembled it and it appears to be fine.

Thanks in advance for your answers. If possible, please post specific answer under each question.
Cheers to clear!
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]


I am running the sock test now.
 
The pictures do not do justice to the color of the pool. You have to look in the foreground as shadows from the trees darken the effects
a59bfa740db683db4c7e54f6a6eb4464.jpg
fb20dba0ff0d987d69ddf1ecacfad7e3.jpg
 
Sock test results. The sock was fastened to the shallow end return for over 1 hour. Absolutely no sand felt or seen in the sock. One photo will show a speck or two of dirt, but that is it.

Backwashing shows very dirty discharge water especially after 24 to 36 hours, with use of diluted DE.
05d01aabb7ec7391bbf7fa8c36ad906d.jpg
023f45c797019419334ee88d52e16b96.jpg
b1373713b46f76744b92c6fc031f52b2.jpg
0d9b823e3f3f0c9b6dc8285af27e1e9e.jpg
df280123709816ebbcecae2dc10c5d77.jpg
 

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