Bonding my 70's pool

[Juggernaut1103]

I've been doing lots of searching and have now become a crazy man about my pool not being bonded. I am a new father and i want to make sure the pool is safe when she can finally use it. I thought i was fine, and the pool was bonded when i saw a copper wire covered in green sheathing attached to the ladder anchors, then connected to the fence, and then i saw the same wire connected to the pump, and filter. Then i realized, the wire on the pump and filter go to a ground rod, and this isn't the same wire up by the pool. I also now know the bonding wire should be bare copper. When we bought the house 3 years ago i knew nothing about pools, had the pool inspected and the guy said everything was fine. We were told a permit was pulled for the pool during construction but never closed, and when they tried closing it (in 2014), they were told it was from to long ago, and it couldn't be closed out, and they had a letter form the town saying the town would never bother us about the pool. I obviously would have acted differently towards all of this if i knew what i know now, but its to late now and my problem to deal with.

Please let me know if these steps sound correct. The pool also has a flagstone stone patio all around it.

1)I plan to dig up around half the pool (is there minimum depth for bonding? Or do i need to run the bonding wire around the entire pool?
2) Ill make sure to attach a bonding wire to the light nitch, then drill out 4 sections on half the pool to connect the bonding wire to the rebar, it has to be in 4 spots correct?
3) I will then connect each metal ladder anchor, then to the fence (do i need to do both sides of the fence?), then down to the shed where the pool equipment is and attached it to the pump and the metal filter and just leave it all like that.

From what i read its just attaching everything together, the wire just starts in one spot and ends in another with everything in between being connected. i was reading something about the pool light J box, but not really sure where that comes into play, it looks like my j box for the light is right up against the house and those wires run into the house where the main panel is, and there is another larger box that then has wires that go to the electrical panel. My setup is really simple as i don't have heat or anything else for the pool. there is just one outlet ran to the shed where i have a basic plug in timer that the pump plugs into. If the light Niche, Conduit, and J box are all metal and connected, can i just bond from the Jbox, since the niche metal is touching the water and leads to the jbox, or will each need to be bonded seperately?

This is going to be a complete headache of a job for me. i just want to make sure i do it right the first time. What I'm scared to ask is if i really absolutely have to put down copper mesh 3 ft outside of the pool wall and connect those as well, and if so do those need to be attached to rebar points. this is an old 70's pool so I'm assuming there is no rebar that sticks outside of the cement wall. I currently have all the mortar joints out between the flagstone/slate, so its now or never to get all of this done. I have very little time besides the weekends, so i need to work diligently. I feel i might be acting a little crazy over this, the pool has never had an issue since the 70's.

 

[Swampwoman]

Forgive me if I missed it, but did you actually TEST the bonding first to confirm its not bonded?
Here's an article on same if you didn't: How to Test a Swimming Pool Bonding Grid - AQUA Magazine

Secondly, have you tried to determine and then consult with the original pool builder? That would be my next move. Eg. The structure may ave indeed been bonded but a DIY replacer of equipment might not have known to connect the equipment pad, etc. could be other stuff going on here historically.

I'm hopeful someone with direct electrical experience may come along to assist - ill see if I can scare someone up

 

[CJadamec]

Before ripping out a lot of expensive landscaping please have some tests done to make sure about the bonding. At worst it will confirm what you suspect and at best you will save a ton of money. In ground pool bonding regulations go back quite a few years so there might be something there.

All the parts of the bonding grid are equally important and leaving any one thing out is more dangerous than no bonding at all.

I am going to let you read the NEC code book section on bonding hopefully these are readable. Retro fitting a bonding grid is not an easy task to accomplish and often times exceedingly expensive to get everything done correctly.

 

[Juggernaut1103]

Thanks for the info, I read some of the code stuff online previously. I wasnt able to make out everything on those pages, but i can see the section numbers so i can google it. I have no idea who put the pool in, it was installed in the 70's so it makes it difficult, I may be able to call and see who tried pulling the permit to do the work, and then call them, doubt they will remember the install but they can probably confirm their practices back then. I have a decent understanding of what needs to be done to bond everything. Obviously code changes over the years, so i was just looking to connect everything together at the very least. I read a few of the different variations of code over the years. Maybe it was bonded per code from the 70's, but that's still much different than the code today, and the code changes for a reason. The wiring seems odd around the pool, that's for sure, but that's basing it off of the current code I've read about. I dont understand why i would see wire attached to the fence and one of the ladder anchors and not the other, but it wouldn't be connected to everything else as well, obviously most of the other stuff is hard to see and its probably underground, but i got worried when i saw all the equipment like the pump, and metal filter only being connected to a ground rod but not seeing a line running up to the pool area. . it goes from the bonding spot on the pump, wraps around a screw on the filter and then right to a grounding rod. I'm just trying to be extra precautious, I read a few of the horror stories online. I'm also going to be installing PVC for a new panel that will be put in my shed with the pool equipment (this will be done by an electrician) and the new PVC i lay for the wire will be under the pool patio. I guess ill start with testing the resistance between parts up by the pool, and then from the pool equipment to points by the pool. Maybe everything by the pool is bonded but the shed stuff is not, and if that's the case, i may just be able to run a line to connect everything together and be done. i was planning on opening the pool this weekend, but may delay if i need to get the pool bonded.

 

[Bama Rambler]

The NEC required pools to be bonded beginning in 1962. They increased the required wire size in 1965 and added the 5ft rule in 1968, so your pool built in 1970 should be bonded. Back then a common ground rod was required, but it's not now. However, it's not prohibited.

Given that you're in CT. I would almost bet that it was bonded according to the requirements at the time. About the only critical thing that's been added since that time is the requirement for a water bond.

When looking for bonding wire, did you dig down at the ground rod to see if the grid was clamped to it underground?

 

[domct203]

Have you read/seen any of Mike Holt's info on pool bonding?

http://www.mikeholt.com/swimmingpoolbonding.php

Here's a good video on checking for/testing the bonding system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8YLcXRo-Go&feature=youtu.be&t=132

Make sure you download the FREE pdf on Article 680 - Swimming Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, and Similar Installations, Based on the 2014 NEC.

 

[CJadamec]

I understand your concern for wanting things done correctly and I applaud you for it. I just don't want to see you rip and tear into things if you don't really have to.

Before you start make sure you can get the bonding grip fully complete including the loop that goes under the deck around the whole pool. If you think you cant complete any parts of the grid you should leave it as is.

Getting at the rebar in the gunite shell will be no easy task and there is high risk of cracking the shell and or damaging the plaster.

The grid around the pool will likely involve removing the deck around the whole pool if there is nothing there currently.


Until then make sure ALL the electric around the pool is properly GFCI protected and test the GFCI devices. Do your checks for the presence of a bonding grid and at the same time check for any stray voltage around the pool. There is a good chance that your pool is perfectly safe to swim in. But it certainly doesn't hurt to be proactive about making sure that it is.

 

[borjis]

my first pool was built in 1972 and it had bonding done that met the code at the time.

The bond wire was sticking up in the equipment room connected to nothing! So I cleaned the
wire and bond lug then connected it to the pump motor bond lug.

Yes do check your gfci plugs in that area and as an added protection, swap out the pump equipment
breaker for a gfci breaker if it doesn't have that already, for additional safety/latest code.

Do you have a light in your pool? make sure the gfci works on that as well. Mine was not working
and I repaired it quickly after moving in.

 

[Juggernaut1103]

You guys have all been a huge help. I really, really, appreciate it.

BAMA- Thanks for the info, I don't have easy access to the ground rod, its under the shed, its a weird setup where the shed is 10 ft from a retaining wall that holds up the pool area, and all the equipment is in a floor cutout on top of a cement slab in the shed, really strange setup. really sucks leaning down to get to the equipment. I do plan to try to get to it this weekend to check though, hoping its buried, but i think it would be weird if that was the case, since one part of it is already visible. assuming green covered wire was probably fine back then and not required to be bare. at least I'm hoping.

DOMCT- I have read through part of the Mike Holt PDF, I believe I read through the whole pool section from another site. I also checked the site swampwoman recommended and i plan to test everything this weekend. FINGERS CROSSEDD, AHHHH!! I plan to check everything out on the Mike Holt site as well, his name came up a lot during my searching. assuming a lot of what I read was from him.

CJADAMEC- I 100% don't want to start doing unnecessary work, I have enough on my list as is, I really appreciate the advice, concern, and help with this.

BORJIS- I bought the house flipped, and when I closed the pool last year I noticed that nothing is GFCI protected, not sure how that past inspection. That is the first thing on my list for this year. I need to replace the outlet in the shed with a GFCI outlet, and replace the breaker for the pool light. The people who flipped the house did the bare minimum to get the pool going. i don't think they ever dealt with a house with a pool. Its bit scary because they put in a new light, or maybe just fixed the old one, and then went ahead and used silicone to try and seal all the areas because water was getting into the actual light housing. Needless to say I'm lucky that light didn't cause an issue last year. I currently have the breaker turned off till I fix that light issue. One of the issues is i cant get the light out because of all the silicone.

Ill do some searching this weekend, and report back how it goes. hopefully I was worrying over nothing.

 

[Juggernaut1103]

Ok, so we have some good and some bad. First the good, everything attached to the pool, fence, pool light, jbox are all bonded. Only one of the anchors for the ladder registered the same volts as everything else but that won't matter because it will all be the same when I put the ladder in, when I open the pool. The bad is the pump and metal filter are not bonded. I feel like it became unbounded when the pump was changed out but I searched and searched, and couldnt find a random wire that could be the bonding wire. So the pump and filter are only grounded through the rod below the shed. Question is do I have to run the new bonding wire to the shed from the exact wire that's already attached to the fence and obviously is attached to all the other bonding wires, or can I just add a lug to the fence on the other side, and run a new line to the equipment? I thought I read all wires need to be attached in the same run, but wasn't sure. I also saw diagrams where each section was attached to rebar which created a connection between all points which is why I think I can go off the other end of the fence to add the pump and filter to the bonding.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Technically, you should connect the bonding wire to the bonding loop (which means the wire). Rebar is allowed because it's considered a permanent connection. If it's possible to remove a section of the fence, then bonding to it not at a bonded point wouldn't be allowed.

Are you sufficiently sure that the bonding grid/loop isn't hooked to the ground rod near the equipment pad?

 

[Juggernaut1103]

I watched the Mike Holt video, and then tested all the metal areas for voltage. Voltage was the same at all points around the pool, minus the pool equipment. The pump looks to have been changed out in the 90's, i think that's when the ground rod was put in, along with the single wire connected to the pump, and filter that go to the ground rod.

The fence actually is not removable. Its cemented in the the top of the retaining wall, and its an iron fence.

I do strongly believe there is a bonding wire somewhere by the equipment, I dont think the builder would go through the trouble of bonding everything an then not do the equipment. I just cant find the d@mn thing it. I dug around in the dirt around the equipment and couldn't find anything, I'm wondering if they cut the line far back into the ground or something when they changed out the pump.

I guess i will just run a line from the connector on the fence where the existing bonding wire is, and run it to the equipment.

I appreciate every ones help, if anyone has a any tricks for locating a bonding wire around an equipment pad, please let me know.