I first noticed a few days ago after I backwashed that sand would come out of the returns for 5-10 seconds.. I then read in pool school about rinsing before going back to filter. I backwashed, then rinsed for 15 seconds then went to filter and there was no sand. Yesterday I just turned the pump off to un-hook my polaris and turned the pump back on and there went sand for a few seconds. I've been told it might be a broken lateral. I've read something about a spider gasket needing replaced. Does anyone know why it would be doing this?
Sand coming out of return
- Thread starter aharper10
- Start date
first make sure it is sand, sand is so heavy that it only makes it a few feet away from the return line before falling to the bottom of the pool in a streak pattern. In the case of a broken lateral I'd say replace the filter unless you really enjoy hours of digging through damp sand to replace parts that might already be brittle from age.
Well, it may not be sand because it's all over the bottom and not just in front of the return. It is so fine that it will go right through the knee highs I put in the bag on my polaris 360. What filter are you referring to replacing? Thanks.
How hard would it be for you to open the sand filter and look into it?
If you can get inside the filter, visually inspect it and then reach down into it and feel the sand, it should be 'fluffy' not hard nor compacted and not have a layer of 'felt' on it.
If it's an issue with the sand itself, changing it isn't complicated nor hard :-D
If you can get inside the filter, visually inspect it and then reach down into it and feel the sand, it should be 'fluffy' not hard nor compacted and not have a layer of 'felt' on it.
If it's an issue with the sand itself, changing it isn't complicated nor hard :-D
I checked the bag on the Polaris this morning and it caught a little of it and its definately sand. I could see the bottom of the deep end yesterday but with the cleaner running I can't. It just clouds the water bad.
Its only been about 2 years since the sand has been changed. The guy had to cut the PVC to get into it and then glued it back so i'd have to cut it. Is there some kind of quick connect I could put back on it? I have a party this weekend and really need this fixed. I'm about ready to call someone to come do it. Is there any way to at least get this sand out of the pool? It only comes out when I turn the pump off and back on, so I could just keep it running if I could get it cleaned up. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.
-Adam
Its only been about 2 years since the sand has been changed. The guy had to cut the PVC to get into it and then glued it back so i'd have to cut it. Is there some kind of quick connect I could put back on it? I have a party this weekend and really need this fixed. I'm about ready to call someone to come do it. Is there any way to at least get this sand out of the pool? It only comes out when I turn the pump off and back on, so I could just keep it running if I could get it cleaned up. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.
-Adam
Here is a picture of my pump and filter. The red arrow is where he glued it back together after changing the sand a couple years ago. The green arrow is where it is leaking right now and I assume where air is also getting in. Could that be related to sand coming out of the return? I guess I'll have to cut them again.....correct? Is there a quick connect or something that I can put back on it?
They make PVC unions you can use where you cut the pipe so you don't have to do that again.
While I usually try not to 'dis' other pool pros - I'll make an exception this time 
Was the guy who changed out the sand a complete moron? When he had to cut the pipes to get into the filter the first time HE SHOULD HAVE PUT ON UNIONS!! Any time you have to cut the pipe to make an equipment repair that will be need to be done again in the future - YOU INSTALL A UNION to make it easier and neater the next time a similar repair needs to be done!!! Hack, Hack, Hack... !
Ok - I had a beer and calmed down
First let's make sure it's filter sand in the Polaris bag (as per X-Pert) To do this - rubberband one of those kneehighs to a return so as to catch any if the filter is indeed spitting sand on start up. Then turn the pump off and wait a few minutes - a good excuse to go grab and drink a beer
("But, Honey - the pro on TFP said that this was the correct way to check this" :lol: )
Fire up the system and check the nylon for sand - if there's any in there, it came from the filter.
Now before we start hacking into the plumbing, we may as well check the multiport's gasket (called a 'wagon wheel' or 'spider' gasket). All you need to do is unscrew the 6 bolts holding the top on and look at it - make sure it's not 'bubbled up' in the tracks and isn't torn. Easy enough! If the gasket is in good shape reassemble the multi (there are flat sides at one of the screws to show proper alignment ) and get ready to tackle the sand beast
Actually - I think (unless you desire the info now) that you would be better served by manually vacuuming the sand, etc to waste then leave the pump running, if a party is imminent and then deal with the repairs (both easy) after you have your hugely successful party. The reason I suggest doing things this way is because I don't feel like typing out the instructions :lol: - Just kidding, there are a couple places where things could go wrong and if you can't be absolutely sure of getting the replacement parts, if the pool is up and operational now, let's make sure it's that way for the party
The leak is minor and a little sand in the pool won't kill anyone (if anyone says anything - just look ****** and ask "Okay - this pool was clean before y'all got here - who the H#LL tracked sand into the pool?!?") Mix the drinks a little strong (except for the designated drivers :angel: ) and no one will care about the sand :-D
Seriously, if you want to do this before the party, I'll give you a grocery list of parts you'll want to have on hand and instructions on fixing the leak and sand issues 8)
Was the guy who changed out the sand a complete moron? When he had to cut the pipes to get into the filter the first time HE SHOULD HAVE PUT ON UNIONS!! Any time you have to cut the pipe to make an equipment repair that will be need to be done again in the future - YOU INSTALL A UNION to make it easier and neater the next time a similar repair needs to be done!!! Hack, Hack, Hack... !
Ok - I had a beer and calmed down
First let's make sure it's filter sand in the Polaris bag (as per X-Pert) To do this - rubberband one of those kneehighs to a return so as to catch any if the filter is indeed spitting sand on start up. Then turn the pump off and wait a few minutes - a good excuse to go grab and drink a beer
("But, Honey - the pro on TFP said that this was the correct way to check this" :lol: )Fire up the system and check the nylon for sand - if there's any in there, it came from the filter.
Now before we start hacking into the plumbing, we may as well check the multiport's gasket (called a 'wagon wheel' or 'spider' gasket). All you need to do is unscrew the 6 bolts holding the top on and look at it - make sure it's not 'bubbled up' in the tracks and isn't torn. Easy enough! If the gasket is in good shape reassemble the multi (there are flat sides at one of the screws to show proper alignment ) and get ready to tackle the sand beast
Actually - I think (unless you desire the info now) that you would be better served by manually vacuuming the sand, etc to waste then leave the pump running, if a party is imminent and then deal with the repairs (both easy) after you have your hugely successful party. The reason I suggest doing things this way is because I don't feel like typing out the instructions :lol: - Just kidding, there are a couple places where things could go wrong and if you can't be absolutely sure of getting the replacement parts, if the pool is up and operational now, let's make sure it's that way for the party
The leak is minor and a little sand in the pool won't kill anyone (if anyone says anything - just look ****** and ask "Okay - this pool was clean before y'all got here - who the H#LL tracked sand into the pool?!?") Mix the drinks a little strong (except for the designated drivers :angel: ) and no one will care about the sand :-D
Seriously, if you want to do this before the party, I'll give you a grocery list of parts you'll want to have on hand and instructions on fixing the leak and sand issues 8)
waste said:While I usually try not to 'dis' other pool pros - I'll make an exception this time
Was the guy who changed out the sand a complete moron? When he had to cut the pipes to get into the filter the first time HE SHOULD HAVE PUT ON UNIONS!! Any time you have to cut the pipe to make an equipment repair that will be need to be done again in the future - YOU INSTALL A UNION to make it easier and neater the next time a similar repair needs to be done!!! Hack, Hack, Hack... !
Ok - I had a beer and calmed down
First let's make sure it's filter sand in the Polaris bag (as per X-Pert) To do this - rubberband one of those kneehighs to a return so as to catch any if the filter is indeed spitting sand on start up. Then turn the pump off and wait a few minutes - a good excuse to go grab and drink a beer
Fire up the system and check the nylon for sand - if there's any in there, it came from the filter.
Now before we start hacking into the plumbing, we may as well check the multiport's gasket (called a 'wagon wheel' or 'spider' gasket). All you need to do is unscrew the 6 bolts holding the top on and look at it - make sure it's not 'bubbled up' in the tracks and isn't torn. Easy enough! If the gasket is in good shape reassemble the multi (there are flat sides at one of the screws to show proper alignment ) and get ready to tackle the sand beast
Actually - I think (unless you desire the info now) that you would be better served by manually vacuuming the sand, etc to waste then leave the pump running, if a party is imminent and then deal with the repairs (both easy) after you have your hugely successful party. The reason I suggest doing things this way is because I don't feel like typing out the instructions :lol: - Just kidding, there are a couple places where things could go wrong and if you can't be absolutely sure of getting the replacement parts, if the pool is up and operational now, let's make sure it's that way for the party
The leak is minor and a little sand in the pool won't kill anyone (if anyone says anything - just look ****** and ask "Okay - this pool was clean before y'all got here - who the H#LL tracked sand into the pool?!?") Mix the drinks a little strong (except for the designated drivers :angel: ) and no one will care about the sand :-D
Seriously, if you want to do this before the party, I'll give you a grocery list of parts you'll want to have on hand and instructions on fixing the leak and sand issues 8)
Thanks for all the info!!! I'll do the knee high trick and then and if it's sand, check the gasket and see it that's the problem. I will wait till after this weekend like you said to do the rest. The last time I used a manual vacuum the pump kept losing prime, that's why I got the Polaris, it's all I've got now. The pool guy (the same one that cut the pipe :grrrr: ) said I had a cracked pipe underground. I wonder if that's even true now.....
Adam, glad you're listening to a 'real' pool pro now!
I'm VERY happy to be able to help you with your issues!
Re: the manual vacuuming - try changing the vacuum hose attachments around -- 1 end has a swivel cuff, that end must be attached to the vacuum head or it WILL suck air and kill the prime! Also, you have to have the vac hose full of water before you start to vacuum
Have a great weekend and a party worthy of being on TV
Come Monday (or so) we'll talk about the laterals, unions, and how to fix the leak on the effluent port of the pump 8)
I'm VERY happy to be able to help you with your issues!
Re: the manual vacuuming - try changing the vacuum hose attachments around -- 1 end has a swivel cuff, that end must be attached to the vacuum head or it WILL suck air and kill the prime! Also, you have to have the vac hose full of water before you start to vacuum
Have a great weekend and a party worthy of being on TV
Come Monday (or so) we'll talk about the laterals, unions, and how to fix the leak on the effluent port of the pump 8)Ok, new developments.......we finally got the pool cleared up to swim. I turned the pump off and my wife got a knee high and put it around the return, I turned it on and the "sand" shot right through the knee high! After getting in the pool and walking around we could tell it is all over the bottom of the pool, we were making tracks everywhere! I got 2 knee highs and put them in the polaris bag and it still wouldn't catch any of it. So.......we talked to my dad-in-law tonight and he used to have a pool and was on well water and he said he had a problem with iron in his and it would be all over the bottom like ours 
Think it could be iron?? I'm guessing the only way to get it out, whatever it is, is to manually vac it out, correct? I am gonna try and find one tomorrow I can borrow.
It makes sense really though. Sand WAS coming out of the return because I had backwashed without rinsing for a few weeks and kept catching sand in the knee highs in the bag, but now that we rinse after backwashing no sand comes out anymore and none is being picked up, it's all just the iron, or whatever that stuff is.......Thoughts????
Think it could be iron?? I'm guessing the only way to get it out, whatever it is, is to manually vac it out, correct? I am gonna try and find one tomorrow I can borrow.It makes sense really though. Sand WAS coming out of the return because I had backwashed without rinsing for a few weeks and kept catching sand in the knee highs in the bag, but now that we rinse after backwashing no sand comes out anymore and none is being picked up, it's all just the iron, or whatever that stuff is.......Thoughts????
Bought a vacuum head and the round thing that the goes in the skimmer, (already had the pole and hose). I filled the hose up with water, covered the hole in the 2nd skimmer, turned the dial to waste, put the round thing :-D in the skimmer closest to the pump, and turned on the pump. I also filled up the little black box (right before the pump) with water from a hose and noticed that it was coming out of the skimmer and into the pool. I guess the skimmers are lower than the pump, does that matter?
Anyway, the pump did the same thing it used to do, the black box would almost fill up with water and "prime" ?? but then it would lose prime and air get into it, and the process repeats. Is there some kind of rubber gasket or something that goes with the round thing? It seemed like when it would almost prime that water starting coming into the skimmer like the round thing wasn't making a good seal.
I have never vacuumed manually so I don't know what I'm doing, (like that's a big surprise). 2 years ago the pool guy came out hooked everything up and said there was something wrong underground.
I don't know how else to get all of this iron/sand/pollen/whatever it is, out of the pool. If anybody has ANY suggestions/advice/shameless plugs, please HELP
Anyway, the pump did the same thing it used to do, the black box would almost fill up with water and "prime" ?? but then it would lose prime and air get into it, and the process repeats. Is there some kind of rubber gasket or something that goes with the round thing? It seemed like when it would almost prime that water starting coming into the skimmer like the round thing wasn't making a good seal.
I have never vacuumed manually so I don't know what I'm doing, (like that's a big surprise). 2 years ago the pool guy came out hooked everything up and said there was something wrong underground.
I don't know how else to get all of this iron/sand/pollen/whatever it is, out of the pool. If anybody has ANY suggestions/advice/shameless plugs, please HELP
I am pretty much a newbie in my knowledge, but from what I've read here at TFP, iron is not something that is particulate that it would shoot out of the return and settle on the floor. I believe it would show itself by staining or changing the color of the water.
If it feels gritty like sand, then it is probably sand. I was getting sand in my pool through the return and I disassembled the filter and replaced all of the sand. That worked for me, but I have an above-ground set up. Just last week, I vacuumed the remaining sand in the pool when I could finally see it. There was a great deal of sand in it and it did not settle within a few feet of the return, it darn near went halfway across the pool.
Good luck, I know it is a frustrating situation.
If it feels gritty like sand, then it is probably sand. I was getting sand in my pool through the return and I disassembled the filter and replaced all of the sand. That worked for me, but I have an above-ground set up. Just last week, I vacuumed the remaining sand in the pool when I could finally see it. There was a great deal of sand in it and it did not settle within a few feet of the return, it darn near went halfway across the pool.
Good luck, I know it is a frustrating situation.
Yes, it is very frustrating :grrrr: I just wish I could manually vacuum it up. I don't know how else to get it out.
Do you want the bad news or the bad news first? Upon reviewing the pic you posted, it looks like the shaft seal assembly may be bad - look under the pump/ motor interface with the unit on - you will probably see a trickle or drip coming out :x
As for the air when vacuuming, it may be as simple as the vac hose having a hole in it or a readily fixed air leak in the system - please follow the instructions in the Leak Detection article in Pool School. If I'm reading the pic correctly, the first place I would try dribbling water is where the pipe enters the housing - though the lid gasket may be bad or have debris on it.
There is nothing major involved here (so far) you have 4 issues, the air leak when vacuuming - I'm thinking you'll find the source to be above ground
), the small drip out of the top of the pump - very easy to repair, probably a shaft seal assembly/ housing gasket - step by step detailed instructions already here, but I'll link them up when you're ready and the sand issue. It's a good thing we waited you can more efficiently deal with all this at once, rather than 'a - la - cart' You'll want unions and plumbing supplies, some specific parts for the pump (I'll give you the part #s), a couple basic tools and a few hours to play with everything.
If we can track down the air leak on the suction side, I'll be ready to write up your grocery list and tell you what you have to do and how to do everything :-D
I've got > 1/2 of what you'll need to know/ do already in other posts - just let me know when you're ready and I'll post the links and any other helpful hints I can think of -- and of course you have this whole forum behind you to proffer help
We're gonna get you through this and you'll be amazed at how easy it'll be :-D
Upon reviewing the pic you posted, it looks like the shaft seal assembly may be bad - look under the pump/ motor interface with the unit on - you will probably see a trickle or drip coming out :x As for the air when vacuuming, it may be as simple as the vac hose having a hole in it or a readily fixed air leak in the system - please follow the instructions in the Leak Detection article in Pool School. If I'm reading the pic correctly, the first place I would try dribbling water is where the pipe enters the housing - though the lid gasket may be bad or have debris on it.
There is nothing major involved here (so far) you have 4 issues, the air leak when vacuuming - I'm thinking you'll find the source to be above ground
), the small drip out of the top of the pump - very easy to repair, probably a shaft seal assembly/ housing gasket - step by step detailed instructions already here, but I'll link them up when you're ready and the sand issue. It's a good thing we waited you can more efficiently deal with all this at once, rather than 'a - la - cart' You'll want unions and plumbing supplies, some specific parts for the pump (I'll give you the part #s), a couple basic tools and a few hours to play with everything. If we can track down the air leak on the suction side, I'll be ready to write up your grocery list and tell you what you have to do and how to do everything :-D
I've got > 1/2 of what you'll need to know/ do already in other posts - just let me know when you're ready and I'll post the links and any other helpful hints I can think of -- and of course you have this whole forum behind you to proffer help
We're gonna get you through this and you'll be amazed at how easy it'll be :-D
I'm ready! 
Tell me what to get and where to start.
P.s. I was reading a post about hooking the hose directly into the hole under the skimmer and not use the round plate so I tried that today when I got home from work. It seemed like it worked a little better because I put my hand under the vacuum head and could feel it pulling just a little. It was like "half-primed". Anyway, I'm ready to get started. Thanks for all the help
Tell me what to get and where to start. P.s. I was reading a post about hooking the hose directly into the hole under the skimmer and not use the round plate so I tried that today when I got home from work. It seemed like it worked a little better because I put my hand under the vacuum head and could feel it pulling just a little. It was like "half-primed". Anyway, I'm ready to get started. Thanks for all the help
Here we go
Here's some pvc plumbing advice I posted on the Pool Forum:
Here is some advice on working on a Hayward Superpump to change the motor or shaft seal here
Here i the tripple threat advice I use on the outport of the pump which is leaking -- I teflon tape the male adapter as per spishex's advice here and then put on an o-ring from a plug (SP 1022- C - Z - 1), then apply some permatex and tighten the male adapter down enough to pinch, but not warp, the o -ring.
Waterbear's advice on cleaning a sand filter can be found here - I think it may be all you need to do 8) (I'm hoping this works - this should cover sand changing and why I suggest to add pea gravel before the sand - if you need to change the sand :-D
Grocery list:
Permatex thread past
2 - 1 1/2 pvc male adapters
Teflon tape
3 1 1/2" unions (SP 1485 socket by socket) [there are specialty unions that have a M/A on one side and will accept a regular pipe, which I would prefer to use on the in fluent line for the pump ]
(IF the seal assembly is leaking) SP 1600 Z 2 <seal assembly> and SP 1600 T <housing gasket>
PVC glue and primer/ solvent
This should do for your grocery list for now (as long as you have the tools mentioned in the linked posts)
Get your supplies in order, don't forget the items to have on hand in the linked posts and I'll walk you through what you need to do :-D
Here's some pvc plumbing advice I posted on the Pool Forum:
me said:
Here is some advice on working on a Hayward Superpump to change the motor or shaft seal here
Here i the tripple threat advice I use on the outport of the pump which is leaking -- I teflon tape the male adapter as per spishex's advice here and then put on an o-ring from a plug (SP 1022- C - Z - 1), then apply some permatex and tighten the male adapter down enough to pinch, but not warp, the o -ring.
Waterbear's advice on cleaning a sand filter can be found here - I think it may be all you need to do 8) (I'm hoping this works - this should cover sand changing and why I suggest to add pea gravel before the sand - if you need to change the sand :-D
Grocery list:
Permatex thread past
2 - 1 1/2 pvc male adapters
Teflon tape
3 1 1/2" unions (SP 1485 socket by socket) [there are specialty unions that have a M/A on one side and will accept a regular pipe, which I would prefer to use on the in fluent line for the pump
](IF the seal assembly is leaking) SP 1600 Z 2 <seal assembly> and SP 1600 T <housing gasket>
PVC glue and primer/ solvent
This should do for your grocery list for now (as long as you have the tools mentioned in the linked posts)
Get your supplies in order, don't forget the items to have on hand in the linked posts
and I'll walk you through what you need to do :-DWow, my brain is hurtin from trying to comprehend all this I'm gonna print this out and take it to Lowe's with me. I'll get everything the next couple days and try to tackle this Saturday mornin. I'll post any questions I have......
Thanks so much for helping me with this
I'm gonna print this out and take it to Lowe's with me. I'll get everything the next couple days and try to tackle this Saturday mornin. I'll post any questions I have......Thanks so much for helping me with this
Cool 8) I finally made someone feel like I do when I TRY to understand one of Chemgeek's more intricate posts on pool chemistry :lol:
It's not all that complicated and I'm hoping most of the headache is coming from my plumbing description (when I posted that info there were 3 or 4 pics of the problem area - I'd have linked or copied them - if they hadn't been deleted from PF
) In your case, you'll be wanting to install the unions on the vertical pipes in and out of the multi (just measure down 4" from the coupling out of the pump and the same 4" down from the 90* to make the first cuts) then measure the distance between the interior stops on the union and cut off that much more pipe to give you the room to install it On the front side a SP 1495 3 S (the one that has male threads on one side and a socket on the other) will serve you best [**** 1495 is the correct part # for the unions - my bad! *****] We'll talk about the length of the input pipe once the others are installed, for now (IF you have a seal assembly leak) just cut the pipe right at the male adapter going into the pump.
If any of the linked info is causing you to take Tylenol, just ask me for a little clarification I do one of these things almost every working day of my life and am more than happy to share my knowledge/ experience with you / TFP :angel:
It's not all that complicated and I'm hoping most of the headache is coming from my plumbing description (when I posted that info there were 3 or 4 pics of the problem area - I'd have linked or copied them - if they hadn't been deleted from PF
) In your case, you'll be wanting to install the unions on the vertical pipes in and out of the multi (just measure down 4" from the coupling out of the pump and the same 4" down from the 90* to make the first cuts) then measure the distance between the interior stops on the union and cut off that much more pipe to give you the room to install it On the front side a SP 1495 3 S (the one that has male threads on one side and a socket on the other) will serve you best [**** 1495 is the correct part # for the unions - my bad! *****] We'll talk about the length of the input pipe once the others are installed, for now (IF you have a seal assembly leak) just cut the pipe right at the male adapter going into the pump.If any of the linked info is causing you to take Tylenol, just ask me for a little clarification
I do one of these things almost every working day of my life and am more than happy to share my knowledge/ experience with you / TFP :angel: