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Thread: NO Bond Beam??

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    NO Bond Beam??

    So, we have a quote from a pool builder who says the bond beam is not necessary. This is crazy, right? We're in North Florida.



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    NO Bond Beam??

    I'm most cases a raised bond beam is purely for aesthetics and then you can add features to it like sheer descents or water bowls etc.
    unless you have some type of grading issues and you would use it as a reinforced wall then your PB is right.
    In my opinion I think they make a pool look good and add character but beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Growing up as a kid most pools were plane Jane and good just for a swim much like your local rec pool
    current build<--free form gunite 34x21 18k gallons 4ft-7ft deep,Pentair 3HP VSP, wisperflo 2hp, 520 cartridge filter, 400k heater, ez touch 8 with screen logic, ic40 swg. 4ft sheer decent, 2 led deck jets, 5 globrite leds,rock spa waterfall. Mocha travertine deck, noche coping. Tropics blue custom mix with LOTS of beads and shells

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    E,

    What are you calling a "Bond Beam"..

    Google says.. "The bond beam is a vital component of the pool structure, set during construction. It is a horizontal concrete element, usually reinforced with a larger diameter steel rebar, beneath the pool's coping. Its purpose is to provide added strength to the pool wall."

    Where would he install the coping?

    I'm thinking we have some sort of failure to communicate...

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Good point Jim, I assumed the OP meant raised bond beam. Let's hope they chime in so we can get some clarification
    Either way you would think that the engineering would cover the pool shell and making sure it's up to code.... but stranger things have happened


    current build<--free form gunite 34x21 18k gallons 4ft-7ft deep,Pentair 3HP VSP, wisperflo 2hp, 520 cartridge filter, 400k heater, ez touch 8 with screen logic, ic40 swg. 4ft sheer decent, 2 led deck jets, 5 globrite leds,rock spa waterfall. Mocha travertine deck, noche coping. Tropics blue custom mix with LOTS of beads and shells

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    The bond beam is a critical structural component of the pool shell. Think of a pool as a red Solo cup - the walls are thin but the top lip is rolled over on itself (bond beam) and provides the majority of the structural strength of the cup. A pool is no different.

    A pool sees the most stress at the bond beam (where external forces are attempting to make the pool wall collapse and the surrounding soil has the most leverage on the shell) and the transition from the wall to the floor.

    You may want to consider not answering the door the next time this guy comes around...

    Here is an example of a bond beam detail. It really is a critical element.

    post-81-0-81124300-1471137477.jpg
    -Brian-

    Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment

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    Esloser's Avatar
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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Didn't know if I had one, but after going back through the pictures it looks like it was included...

    36,000 Gallon Inground (IG) Gunite Pool with Spa and 12" tanning ledge | White Plaster | Cartridge Filter | Hayward Single Speed Pump (x2) | 400k BTU Hayward Heater | Hayward ProLogic Automation | Taylor K2006 Test Kit | In-pool Cleaner | August / September 2016 Build Date | Build Thread

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    No, I'm not talking about a raised beam, I'm talking about the top of the pool shel! The PB has been going from 4 inches to 6 inches at the top of the pool, with one single plane of rebar. We've witnessed this in practice on a pool he's building nearby. The pool coping is being attached to the 6-in pool wall, along with a trough of concrete poured next to it.
    Just as we thought, this is crazy! Thanks so much for your responses, really helpful.



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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Are there no inspections where you are? It must be nice for the builders to do whatever they want.

    The steel reinforcement is one of the most heavily scutinized inspections around here. I usually have to bribe the inspectors or pay them off for my recycled paper clip reinforcement to pass
    -Brian-

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Don't listen to Brian. He steals twist ties from the produce section at the market to tie his reinforcement . . .
    17' x 30' rectangle pool, two 7' x 7' baja decks, 6' x 8' raised spa. Hayward 2HP VSP for features, filter and returns. 2HP single speed for 9 spa jets. 1HP blower for spa bubbles. In-Floor cleaning, Cartridge filter, AquaConnect automation, 400K BTU NG heater. Plaster is Stonescapes mini-pebble in Aqua Blue + abalone shell TF-100 Text from Neighbor -- They're digging your pool!

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEinAZ View Post
    Don't listen to Brian. He steals twist ties from the produce section at the market to tie his reinforcement . . .
    That was my super special secret...Thanks for ruining it!
    -Brian-

    Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    I'm used to seeing both the rebar and a 'T" type cap 12" on the top of the gunite shelf to support the coping.

    Some builders use 6-8" walls then add the 12" to the top for the coping. If your using an poured concrete deck some will eliminate this and just run the
    deck on top of the bond beam.

    I built my pool and a few friends at 12" solid gunite all the way with the top shelf/ bond beam all framed out with rebar.

    And yes it costs a lot more as you use a lot more concrete.. this is one way builders save money.
    25k 20x40 Gunite w/ integrated Spa & Caribbean Blue Plaster, Curved Bluestone Coping, Deck Jets
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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Quote Originally Posted by Esloser View Post
    Didn't know if I had one, but after going back through the pictures it looks like it was included...


    who did ur rebar? the techniques with the blocks for the side wall and framing looks like mine. looks really nice!
    TFP - Come for advice, stay for the education, leave with knowledge -
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    Esloser's Avatar
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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    That I do not know - the PB was Blue Haven, but they subcontracted it out to someone.
    36,000 Gallon Inground (IG) Gunite Pool with Spa and 12" tanning ledge | White Plaster | Cartridge Filter | Hayward Single Speed Pump (x2) | 400k BTU Hayward Heater | Hayward ProLogic Automation | Taylor K2006 Test Kit | In-pool Cleaner | August / September 2016 Build Date | Build Thread

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    All the IG Gunite pools in my area are 12" walls. All the PBs quote it the same. And the ones we have seen constructed measure true.

    No "bond beams" mentioned around here because the whole wall is a bond beam? (I guess?)

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    If the wall is 12" then that basically handles it but it would still need the engineered steel reinforcement at the top of the wall. It's usually 3 #3s and if there are higher stresses they get stepped up to #4 bars
    -Brian-

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Thanks Brian,

    I believe we had the reinforcing steel on the top of ours, but will go back and look.

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    Re: NO Bond Beam??

    Now I am looking back to see if I have one too . It looks like I do, but I know it was #4 steel used for the entire structure.
    2016 Build: 20x30 15K Gal-IG Gunite, #4 Steel Tanning Ledge, Bubbler, Flagstone Coping, Stamped Concrete Deck, Jump Rock, Rock Waterfall, CLI Majestic Isle Pebble Finish, 3 Multi-Color LED lights, Ozone-DEL Eclipse 10, Empty Inline Tab Feeder, 2 HP Jandy Pro Series ePump with SVRS, 2 Skimmers, 6 Returns, 2 drains, 1 Cleaner Return, Jandy CV Filter 460 SF, Dolphin Nautilus+, iAqualink RS Automation, Borates, Test Kit Taylor k2006

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