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Thread: Confusion on FC CC test

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    Confusion on FC CC test

    Hi! Pam here. I'm new to the forum, but have been following for a few years. My husband and I opened the pool ourselves this year and am hoping to use the Trouble Free method with the oxygenation part of the Ecosmarte system. Hopefully, you can see my signature to understand what I'm using.
    Pool had a slight haze upon opening (usually is, when opening, though). It's pretty clear now, but I'm having trouble getting any chlorine reading from the the Taylor K-2006 test kit.
    Before slamming my numbers were:
    PH 7.4
    TA 80
    CH 500
    CYA 20/30
    According to the Chlorine/CYA chart I needed to raise shock FC to between 10 and 12, and pool calculator said to add between 5/6 gal. bleach, which I did Saturday evening. But when I checked the FC Sunday using the DPD test, I didn't get any pink or red color, even after adding ten plus scoops. After it set a bit, it did start to turn pink, but I think it's supposed to as you add and then swirl to mix. By the way, the DPD powder doesn't mix or dissolve very well. Also, is it normal for the power to be less than half full when first opening it?
    I thought maybe since I shocked the night before chlorine was just really high and bleaching the color out. Now I'm wondering if the chlorine is just really way low, since we just opened it.

    So my question...what do I do next? Add another 5/6 gal bleach?
    Thanks so much for any suggestions!
    Pam
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Welcome to TFP!

    What you describe with the FAS-DPD test sounds perfectly normal, you just had zero FC. It sounds like there is something in your water that consumed the chlorine you added quite quickly. Not surprising if you normally run zero chlorine, there is always something growing in your pool even if you can't see it.

    Unfortunately, TFP is not compatible with any Ecosmarte system. We do not recommend ever running less than the minimum FC for you CYA, per the FC/CYA chart. You won't find any love here for a system sold by fear tactic and demonizing chlorine. I hope you will consider TFPC for your entire pool care, after all you already have the proper kit and are using chlorine, why add more steps and complications?
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Thanks for your reply, Donldson! I'm not using the Ecosmarte system as they recommend. We had too much copper when using their system, so we have taken the copper bars out. On the recommendation of Alan, from 'Ask Alan a Question" a pool online help, a couple years ago, he recommended keeping the FC to 1-3ppm. He said the oxidation that the Ecosmarte provides, will help me maintain any given FC level, using less chlorine. There are no extra steps using the oxidation. It's already hooked up and runs by itself, just oxidizes as the water passes through the chamber.

    I think you're right about something eating the chlorine. At first I thought chlorine was too high to read. I'm still learning. Thought slamming was the same as shock, which I thought you do one time. With slamming, sounds like I need to keep adding 5/6 gal chlorine in the evening, and again in the morning until I get my FC level to 10/12, then make sure it can hold the overnight FC test. Is that correct?
    Pam

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also meant to ask if I can use pool shock bags (leftover) to slam or should I use liquid bleach only?
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Unfortunately "Alan" seems to be repeating the tired and disproven "keep FC low no matter what!" approach that is used by the pool stores and other folks who have a stake in getting your pool green so they can sell you all kinds of chemicals, elixers, and gadgets to "fix" the green pool you now have. "Oxidizer" or not, the bulk of the pool is sitting outside of the pipes there, and localized sanitization isn't going to last once that "clean" water has re-entered your pool - it mixes with everything already there and you need to have something in the pool itself that is actively sanitizing the water - which in this case is chlorine.

    So, if we can set that aside for a moment, let's discuss the remainder of your problem.

    The DPD powder container shouldn't be full - you sound like you got the correct amount in your...vial...for lack of a better word.

    If the water doesn't change color when you add a heaping scoop of DPD powder and swirl, you have no chlorine. This test reads up to 50ppm, which is a HUGE number - you'll get pink color if there is chlorine in the sample. I'm afraid you don't have chlorine in the pool.

    Your solid shock product likely contains CYA. You're already right about where you want to be to attack this problem you're having, so I'd recommend you do not use the bagged shock. Stick to liquid chlorine/bleach (plain, unscented, and not splashless or "EZPour"). For now, follow the SLAM instructions. Using PoolMath, add enough bleach to reach your SLAM target for 30CYA, which is FC12, then leaving the pump running, brush and retest/re-raise the chlorine to 12 as often as possible. If you're out at work during the day like most of us, get up and test in the morning, test right before work, test when you get home, test after dinner, and test at bedtime. Initially you'll need to add chlorine pretty often to get ahead of whatever is growing in there, but soon you'll see the demand for chlorine drop off and you can test less often.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    Pentair WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, Pentair CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, Pentair SunLite, AutoFill.
    Kreepy Krauly Cruiser, TF-100 with SpeedStir. :D

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Thank you! I'll keep you updated as I progress.
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Jo View Post
    By the way, the DPD powder doesn't mix or dissolve very well.
    Pam, you're a perfect candidate for one of these guys:

    71jUsb-Y7IL._SL1500_.jpg

    They're a big hit around here. Everyone talks about how convenient they are, but few people are willing to admit that they're just plain fun to use... (I am!)
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Ok, I slammed with 7 gal 6% bleach last night. FC was at 0.6, CC at 0.4, this morning. I dropped another 6 gal bleach in this morning and FC is 0.8 and CC 0.4. Slow going!��

    Would it make sense to add double the amount of chlorine to get ahead, like 12?. That's a lot of bleach bottles! And can they be added to the skimmer or better around the pool. Why splashless?

    Should I slam more often than morning and night? Seems I read, not less than two times a day, but not more than every two hours. Is that correct? Sunny and hot here now. Rain coming in by the weekend and I'll be out of town. I normally cover, if it's going to storm and out of town. Is that a problem, if my numbers finally get up to 10/12 FC?

    Rollercoastr, I may have to look into one of those! I am hoping I won't be doing this much stirring and slamming once I get my pool in line!

    Thanks for all your help!
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    You don't want splashless bleach. Whatever it is they add, it makes the pool foamy, like you added Mister Bubble.

    The more often you add bleach, the faster it will clear. It's tempting to double up but you risk bleaching the liner. Pouring it in the skimmer is not the best way, because straight out of the bottle, bleach is pretty caustic and could get rough on the pump seals. Better to pour it in front of the return jet and let it dilute it and blow it out into the pool. Some immediate brushing will help mix it up good.

    You have a big pool, so it's going to take a whole lot of bleach, period.
    This is sort of an extreme case...

    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Not splashless!! Whatever is added to give splashless bleach that gel-quality is something you don't want in your pool.

    The whole process, from green to clean-and-clear is called SLAM. Your goal is to keep the FC level at the "shock" level as often as possible. If you had a way to lean over your pool and dispense exactly the amount of chlorine it needed all day long, we'd applaud that. I'm not sure where not more than every 2 hours came from? Are you using Pool Math to determine how much to add each time?

    I use my Speedstir at least weekly. Your testing will decrease after your SLAM, but the Speedstir will continue to earn its keep.

    - - - Updated - - -

    i really need to type faster!
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    That's not too extreme! I'm a third of the way to that photo!��

    I'm sorry, it says, not more than once per hour, not two. My mistake. Pool school on Slamming: "Test and adjust chlorine levels as frequently as practical, but not more than once per hour, and not less than twice a day. Chlorine additions should be frequent, especially at the beginning."

    I hope concentrated (8%) bleach is ok to use? It is splashless.

    Pool calculator is where I'm getting my number on how much bleach to use and the Chlorine/CYA chart to tell me how high FC
    Pool school says I'm done when I meet these three things:


    • CC is 0.5 or lower;
    • You pass an OCLT (ie overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less);
    • And the water is clear.

    Water is clear now and CC is 0.4. I'm assuming after I reach 10/12 FC and no loss greater than 1.0ppm I will be done slamming and can let the FC drift to normal recommended levels? Is that correct?


    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Here is an example of clear: Cloudy pool
    Bob - INTEX 12x24 owner (not setup yet), 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    It is splashless.
    Please don't use splashless bleach anymore.....it has additives you don't want in the pool.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Sorry! It's NOT 'splashes', Dave! I do know not to use that per replies earlier. I need to proof what I've typed.
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Darned auto correct! Splashless!
    Here are photos
    image.jpgimage.jpg
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Well, there is certainly not a problem with that pool! Very nice work!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Ok, so now I'm a bit concerned if this method is going to work for this large a pool. I noticed a patch on the shallow corner of my pool is bleaching out. This is what I've done so far:

    5-15: 9pm started slam w/7gal 6% reg bleach
    5-16: 7:30am FC 0.6, CC 0.4, added 6gal reg bleach
    1:30pm: FC 0.8, CC 0.4, added 3gal concentrated (8%) bleach
    5:30pm: FC 1ppm, CC 0.4, added 3gal concentrated bleach
    9pm: FC 1.8 CC 0.4, added 3gal (8%) concentrated bleach
    5-17@7:14am FC 1, CC 0.4.
    9:30am FC 0.8 CC 0.4, PH 7.3, TA 80, CYA 25-30.

    I thought I'd be a lot farther by now. I had yesterday open, but today and tomorrow, I don't, and will be gone for the weekend. I'm concerned adding more bleach will hurt the liner more. The liner is older, but in decent shape.

    I have one gal bleach left and can't get to the store as I sit my 3 month and 4yr old granddaughters. I also have about 6 or 8 shock bags from last year.

    Suggestions?
    Thank you!
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    How are you performing your FC test?
    If you are slamming, your FC should be 12 (at 30 CYA).
    If you are done slamming (past OCLT), then you want to keep FC between 3 - 5 (at 30 CYA).
    Anything less than 3, and you're asking for algae.
    20K gal; vinyl in-ground; 1.5HP Hayward pump; Hayward Sand Filter; Well water; K-2006.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Looking at your pool, I would stop putting in chlorine, because something just ain't right! I think you have so much chlorine in your water you are bleaching out the indicator dye. Have you tried adding more powder? If you have super high FC the following could happen.

    1. 10 ml sample + 1 scoop of powder = very light pink and it seems to fade.

    2. Add a second scoop and does the same thing.

    3. keep adding scoops until it turns very pink almost red...I would limit to 5 or 6 scoops.

    4. This would indicate that your FC is extremely elevated...ie, stop adding chlorine.

    You could also dilute your pool water with tap water and confirm this issue. Maybe try a 1:10 or 1:20 dilution.

    I tested this with a super concentrated sample...and the powder turned the sample light pink, I kept adding powder and the sample eventually turned deep red.

    The experts may think I'm nutz...Nutz or not, if your liner is starting to fade it is better to be safe than sorry.

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    Also, It is possible that you have ammonia in your pool. Typically a pool with ammonia does not look like your crystal clear pool. I guess you could test for ammonia with an aquarium test kit as well. Other than those suggestions I'm stumped.
    39YO 13K gallon former SWAMP/MONEY PIT, concrete bottom/Fiberglass Walls, Ecotech VS pump, Hayward Sand Filter, Dolphin DX5 Plus, Loop-Loc safety cover and YES, I have a TFT-100 test kit!

    Shock Level and Maintain - CL/CYA Chart

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    Re: Confusion on FC CC test

    I just did the 10ml sample with one scoop and is very light pink. As I add more scoops and swirl, it just gets a little more pink, definitely not red. Last two scoops didn't seem to make much difference in color. I stopped at six scoops.

    I'm wondering if the oxygenation (titanium bars) from the Ecosmarte makes the bleach more efficient?

    The last few years I've just been running with the oxygenation part going and adding chlorine (bleach or shock bags occasionally after heavy swimmer load and keeping chlorinator tabs in a float.

    I will say that I have had some light haze and algae occasionally through the years, but I have never had an issue with completely cloudy water other than back before the Ecosmarte installation, so I think the oxygenation part of the system does help. Just wish I knew why it appears to be bleaching liner with only 1ppm FC reading?
    Pam-36K IG vinyl pool. Sta-rite sand filter and pump. Built in 1996. 20X40 rectangle. Chlorine 1996-2009. Ecosmarte 2009-2011. Removed copper bars, but retained titanium bars 2011-2017. Combination TFP with oxygenation since 2017. PowerTouch automatic pool cover. Aquabot pool cleaner.

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