A few questions while pondering a conversion

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byebyebaqua

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May 12, 2017
31
St.Louis Mo
Thank you for allowing me to join!Sorry for the short post, but I have been typing for the last hour and a half and when I went to preview my post I had to log in to the site again, and I got no internet connection message and lost about 6,000 words, so I am now running a little short on time....the condensed text of my post is that we have been on baquacil since our pool was new in mid summer 2012.

My initial water test this year shows<br>
13,400 gallons according to the pool math chart (my estimation previously was 12,400)
30 ppm baquacil
7.2 ph
ch 250
TA 100
oxidizer 0

I am a little leary of the baquacil reading, seems way too high for just being opened for the season with no recent applications.

We used 1 gallon of CDX in 2013, and never again since then

NO product has been added since September of last year (8 plus months)

My reason for converting is constant cloudy water, bitter aftertaste after swimming, and cost.

I have a few questions about the conversion, I'm sure that they have been discussed many times in the past, but I am hoping to get all of them answered in one spot.

1. My wife was was sold 4 gallons of chlorine, and told that the water would "turn green- you may need more chlorine to get it clear" I have been reading the conversion process and understand that this is only a portion of the process. She was also sold 1 quart of "ProTeam severest algae treatment" and told that it would help the process. We got our lines crossed, all that I wanted her to do was have a water test performed so we would have an accurate baquacil level reading, but she did buy some product. I can return any unopened product. My test strips are from last year, so I wanted a professional test performed. Regarding the proteam product, Is anyone familiar with this product and can you tell me of any benefit or detriment to using this product during the conversion? She was told that it would help with the process.

2. In the early stages does it make any sense to run the filter on recirculate, or is it always best to filter?

3. Is chlorine or bleach a better choice as far as cost per ounce, and effectiveness? (generally speaking, of course. I know prices will vary)

4. While my wife was at our local pool store, I was at another one that is close to my work buying a new skimmer lid and some new sand for the end point of the conversion. This is where we bought our pool. I picked up a product there called x-change which claims to be a conversion aid. Used at a rate of 1 quart per 15,000 gallons followed by chlorine tablets and shock then finally a normal chlorine program.
Has anyone used this product in conjunction with the chlorine/bleach method, or by itself with any positive results. They must not be too proud of it, it was marked down to $1.00 per bottle...at that rate, I couldn't resist.

Thank you in advance for any help and opinions, they will all be appreciated.
 
You can also look into the cost of a full water replacement. If your water cost is low, then you dont need to buy all that stuff. Ive never done a conversion but looks quite expensive.
 
byebyebaqua said:
1. My wife was was sold 4 gallons of chlorine, and told that the water would "turn green- you may need more chlorine to get it clear" I have been reading the conversion process and understand that this is only a portion of the process. She was also sold 1 quart of "ProTeam severest algae treatment" and told that it would help the process. We got our lines crossed, all that I wanted her to do was have a water test performed so we would have an accurate baquacil level reading, but she did buy some product. I can return any unopened product. My test strips are from last year, so I wanted a professional test performed. Regarding the proteam product, Is anyone familiar with this product and can you tell me of any benefit or detriment to using this product during the conversion? She was told that it would help with the process.<br> No No No!! Do not put anything else into that pool other than bleach at this point. Our conversion process has been tried and tested and it works....but you have to follow it exactly. Step by Step.
I have to also laugh when you said "professinal test performed" because sadly, pool stores are notorious for doing pool water tests badly! They rush, or the help is some pimply faced kid who just started and has no clue what he's doing, blah blah blah....
GET YOUR OWN KIT! Testing you water yourself is the only way to know your test results are accurate and reproducible. I'd suggest the TF-100 test kit available from TFTestkits.net or Pool Supply World. com This kit uses Taylor reagents but it comes in quantities that make it a better buy.

<br>
2. In the early stages does it make any sense to run the filter on recirculate, or is it always best to filter?<br> You could, I think? But eventually you have to get all that sand out of there because once bleach hits any residual Bacquagoo, it turns it really icky. If on recirculate I think while you'll have more goo in the pool to scoop out the sand won't be as nasty and that might be easier too. Eventually you have to run it on circulate so that the water in the filter does get circulated. Gotta dwell on this a bit.....

<br>
3. Is chlorine or bleach a better choice as far as cost per ounce, and effectiveness? (generally speaking, of course. I know prices will vary)<br>
<br>Most bleach sold today is 8.25%. Then Walmart sells liquid chlorine at 10%, and some pool stores might sell liquid chlorine up to 12%. You'll have to do the math to figure out what's your best deal. I'm not one to go far to save a penny, so convenience plays into my price shopping too.

4. While my wife was at our local pool store, I was at another one that is close to my work buying a new skimmer lid and some new sand for the end point of the conversion. This is where we bought our pool. I picked up a product there called x-change which claims to be a conversion aid. Used at a rate of 1 quart per 15,000 gallons followed by chlorine tablets and shock then finally a normal chlorine program. <br>
Has anyone used this product in conjunction with the chlorine/bleach method, or by itself with any positive results. They must not be too proud of it, it was marked down to $1.00 per bottle...at that rate, I couldn't resist.<br>

Never heard of it..... wouldn't use it. Lots of potions pool stores sell cause as many problems as they claim to fix.
<br>
Thank you in advance for any help and opinions, they will all be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Don't forget to have a camera ready for the colorful changes you may see when adding those first doses of bleach. We love pics!!

Maddie :flower:
 
Tivo, Unfortunately, a complete water exchange is out of the question. The gentleman that hauled my water originally has passed away, and all of the other water haulers are 3x the price. It would be a $1,000 deal, and I would worry about the liner stretching or becoming damaged. I am keeping the option of a partial drain open, but I fear damage to my well pump which is a major major expense, and mineral content and alkaline levels and hardness.

Maddie, I lost a bunch of text when I lost my original post. I had the life history of the pool in it. Also, I do intend to replace the sand, just didn't know if there was any benefit to saving the filter media until all of the goo had appeared.

Yes, "professional" was for lack of a better word. I could not agree more, but my test strips were last years stock, and I didn't trust them. I don't have a good test kit yet, so I chose that route. When we installed the pool I took a water sample to the store where we bought it. The water was 3/4 hauled water that came from a local municipality, atnd he first 1/4 was from my well. When they tested the initial sample before we put a drop of anything into it, they said, "you need to add a little more sanitizer, it's a little low". She argued with me that I had already added chemicals. Nope, not a drop! Should have been a red flag right there! I'm pretty sure that the city water didn't have any, and I will guarantee that my well does not produce any biguanides!!! They pushed the Baquacil, and I really wish that I had just went with chlorine originally, but they sold us on the no fading of the liner or color-treated hair. Hindsight...
 
Don't worry.... we can talk you thru this. I've never personally done it, but out TFP webmaster has and he's an expert at this conversion stuff!

You will be so pleased when you see how sparkly clear your water can be with chlorine done right! (right being the TFP way!)

Maddie :flower:
 
For starters........WELCOME TO TFP!

Now, to the good stuff! Hopefully you've seen the article to Convert Your Baqua Pool to Chlorine in Pool School. This should help you a good bit. With your pool size you could benefit from a drain refill, however with you needing to truck water in that does greatly add to the cost. If you do a drain refill however please not you still must follow the conversion process, it'll just go quicker if your pool has very low levels of Baqua. With no chemicals added since last year there's a good chance your Baqua levels are low now anyways so it's really nothing more than a roll of the dice which would be cheapest.

As per running your filter on recirculate, absolutely it'll help out a good bit to do so at first! At the beginning it's the chlorine that's doing all the work anyways so the more mixing of the water you can do the better. Additionally brush and vacuum VERY frequently. When you think you've brushed enough........do it some more. :D Test the water and get the chlorine level up to 15ppm as often as you can as well and your conversion will move right along.

Lastly, the two products you've purchased won't do any help really at all. The X-Change is simply Sodium Bromide which could cause extra chlorine demand while the Proteam is just a copper based product. I find it very funny they sold you this product after using the argument of liner damage and green hair to sell you on Baquacil as it's copper that frequently damages liners (staining) and is the main reason for green hair.
 
Leebo, I should clarify that the store that sold my wife the Proteam was not the store that sold us our pool and pushed the Baquacil. The store that she got the Proteam from does not promote Baquacil, although they do stock it for people who are already on it. I do not have much confidence in them. In the past they caused me a lot of grief, and a pool that looked like a bowl of milk for about 3 days.

I purchased the xchange from the store where we bought the pool originally while I was buying new sand and a replacement skimmer lid.

Yes, I have been reading the conversion article, and am beginning to be more comfortable with the process and concept. I plan to start the process next weekend. Too much going on this weekend with it being Mothers Day


Thanks for all of the positive words so far. I can't wait to get this started (ok, honestly I can't wait to get it FINISHED!!!) :D
 
Hello Byebyebaqua,

I live in the St Louis area and have a pool probably exactly like yours as our specs and filters are the same. I was in your exact position last year as well. We inherited our pool from previous owners and we were also sold the bogus baqua. It is "softer feeling" and I loved it when all was well, but it is not powerful enough to keep things at bay forever and it eventually will get mold or slime and need $$$$$ worth of chemicals to treat even if you stay on top of your chemicals religiously as I did.

I had a post ready with all my pics but did not post yet as I got busy too but it is fresh in my mind and I had lots of troubleshooting to do.

1. I would agree with others to no not consider draining, there is biguanide in the liner by now and even a full drain will have the same draw out procedure that generates a lot of the fluffy goo precipitant.

2. Recirculate will help save for a while but you eventually have to filter and backwash or waste all the goooooooo and although it seems like you could just neatly suck it all up, unfortunately it doesn't work that easy and you have to do all three versions to get it out (scooping with net doesn't work either because its just too thin)

3. DONT SWAP YOUR SAND! you will end up needing to do this anyways when your all done so use last years sand as junk waste on the goo.

4. I ended up using concentrated bleach 8.25% Crystal brand from Menards on sale for $1.99 per gallon as cheapest way, AND WENT THROUGH A TON OF IT, Literally I think I bought about 10 or so cases of 4 and used them and some more by the end of the year (did conversion in aug or sept).

5. Talking about testing. I bout the TF-100 as you really do need to test the higher chlorine levels quite often to keep up with the goo and I was very happy with this and I would strongly recommend this over other products I had tried.
Also if you are needing soft swim test strips I still have some and I'm in the STL area if you want to avoid buying a whole new bottle of them.

6. I would strongly recommend waiting to do this until you have a lot of time as it will take days and time and energy to get it all converted.

~GOOD LUCK
 

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I plan to get the Taylor kit as it seems like I can get it a little quicker. The Tf kit prices are all over from $70 and up,

I did a little unscientific test yesterday afternoon into today. I took 64 oz of water from the pool and added 2 oz. Of 12.5% chlorine to the water and agitated it every 10 min for 2 hours. I have kept it in my garage in the shade all day and overnight, and it still smells very strongly of chlorine but no goo or odd colors. Just figuring in my head this is about 3 percent of the total amount of water. That same percentage in my pool would be about 400 gallons of chlorine.

I realize that the liner and such will be permeated with baqua but am I giving myself false hope that this is going to go off without a hitch? I also dumped 12 oz of the 12.5% into the pool after the return port and watched it circle the pool doing nothing more than leave a little cloudy blob until it dissipated.

Will check back in, just enough time to tap off a random thought.

Dr.Zach, I should be good on strips but thank you very much for the offer.
 
Keep in mind that the Taylor kit has smaller bottles of reagents and you'll need to order refills sooner. The TF-100 contains more of the reagents you'll use most, and the XL version is even a better buy. Both test kits use Taylor reagents, so no difference there.

Maddie :flower:
 
I thought the same on the kit cost, but it did save me and it is going to have lasted 2 whole seasons before I need more, you will be checking the chlorine like mad durring the conversion and need a big old bottle like the TF-100 comes with or else you will be buying more. I thought that the big old bottle was excessive when I first got it but the conversion used like 1/2 the bottle.
I think your calculations are off on how much chlorine you will need. It was a lot but not like that. I think I filled the trunk of the minivan a few times with boxes of 4 gal and that was about it and I had plenty for the rest of the season no where near 400 gal.

The goo doesn't look like a lot until you do a bunch and then cumulatively it builds up hardcore.
 
Maddie, you talked me into it. TF100co and a speed suit on the way.

Dr. Zach

I was just saying the ratio of what I had mixed in my small container would equate to about 400 gallons in my pool and I wasn't seeing any goop or discoloration in my small sample. I am hoping to use less than 25 gallons or so for the conversion.

I am jus so exited to get this underway I decided to play with a small sample until I can get the time this weekend and my test kit.

Was hoping to start on Thursday evening, but it looks like 80% chance of rain all weekend. I had intended to be doing some landscaping around the pool while the process was brewing, but I may have to put it off a few days.

The saddest part of all of this right now is that my pool is as clear as a bell. I just know that if I don't do it I will have a pool coated with grainy spinach green algae by July.
 
The conversion has begun!

I had a PH level of 8.2 on Wednesday, but corrected it by the Pool Math calculator with one dose of Muriatic acid. The TA was also high, but did come down to 140 with the ph level coming down.

I did not get the early start that I wanted, but had begun by 9:00 am.

Initially, I backwashed the filter to start with good return pressure. The return jet was turned as to circulate the water in a circular manner, which I normally do to deposit any debris into the center of the pool. My opening PH reading was 7.5. Pool is crystal clear, but I have an algae bloom (greenish yellow) that has started on the floor and sides that I have been brushing all week. I attribute this to 2 weeks at below standard chemical levels while I was waiting to get underway.

All doses are from the recommendations of the Pool Math calculator.

According to the Pool Math, I needed 216oz of 12% chlorine that we had bought earlier in the week (I switched to 10% on the next doses, please read on), which I added. Within 2 minutes of the initial dose, the pool had turned completely green. Within 30 min, I started to notice a film in the skimmer basket. I has my filter on recirculate at this point. I left to run to a local store that had 10% liquid shock on sale for $7.97 for a case of 4 gallons. I had been searching for the best price lately, and this was the best that I had found. The store also had liquid bleach for $1.29 per gallon, but I could not find the concentration on the bottles anywhere, so I decided on the 10% so I could do the pool math with more certainty.

When I returned home, I found the pool surface almost completely covered with a yellowish Baqua-scum...(yay!!! it's doing something!!!). There was also a big glop of baqua-goo in the skimmer at this point. I scooped out the blob, and decided to let the filter do some work, so I switched to "filter". I skimmed off what I could, but my net was not fine enough to get it all. I brushed off and on all day, but there is one area that will need some attention, as I couldn't get to it most of the day due to a big muddy area in my new landscaping. I directed a lot of the floating scum toward the skimmer. I backwashed about 7 hours into the process at around 4:00, and again at about 8:30.

9:00 am start: 0 FC added 2 gallons of 12% fc up to 15
12:00 pm FC tested at 1 added 1 galllon of 12% and 3 quarts of the 10% that was purchased today, FC up to 15
1:00 misread test, added 2 gallons of 10% FC up to 17
3:00 FC read 1 again. added 2 gallons of 10%, back up to 15
4:30 FC read 7, added 1 gallon and 40 oz of 10% fc shot to 23
6:30 tested at 13, added 36 oz of 10% back up to FC 16
8:30 tesed at 13, added 40 0z back up to FC 17

going out to recheck and brush shortly. Will keep you all posted.

I got the TF100XL and a speed stir. The FC test initially turns pink, then returns to clear with the reagents. I noticed that after a few minutes the pink comes back. I read in "Beth's conversion thread!" That this is normal, and the test results should be read immediately, and that the return to pink is normal, and should be disregarded.
 
If you keep going at it like you are, it will be over very soon. The going back to pink after 30 sec is normal and disregard. About the filter, you will probably have to do a deep clean at the very end of the conversion because there is always some baquagoo/slime left in there, just a heads up.

Felipe
 
All chlorine from thispoint forward is 10%
9:00 pm tested FC at 9 added 1 gallon FC up to 16
11:30 pm FC 11 added about 80 0z FC up to 16
2:30 AM FC at 9 added 1 gallon fc up to 16
8:00 am woke up to a reasonably clear pool with about a 2' circle of granular looking baqua-glorp dead center of the pool. My blue and white bristled brush can be seen as white until about 20-30inches deep, then it looks greenish tinted, as does the liner. I am off to vac up the deposit in the center of the pool.

FC at 9:00 am was 5.5 added 170 oz to get it back up to 17. PH at 7.4 We had a large downpour from about 9:30 to 10:30 last night that added almost all of the backwash water back to the pool, so I wanted to get the PH reading. I had not been taking a PH reading because I figured that it would have varied with the rainstorm and the mega doses of chlorine.

We are experiencing about a 25 degree temp drop from yesterday.

I am very pleased with the results so far. I will post pics at the end of today. So far I am 24 hours in, and 12 gallons have been used. (roughly $42.00 in product 1 case of 12% at $15.xx and 3 @ $9.xx with tax for those who are keeping track of the budget). I have 20 gallons of 10% left.
 
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You dont need help, you are doing great. We call this time POP(pool owner Patience). Keep up your FC, if the pool starts to look very clear and keep loosing fC, then you should inspect your filter/clean for leftover goo.

Felipe
 

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