Thanks, is that what this stuff is?
I don't see the "grade" anywhere on the bag. Hmmm. Should I pass and keep looking?Edit: I think this is the stuff:
http://www.rwsidley.com/RWS.Product%20Information.Silica%20Filter%20Sand.03.02.15.pdf
total newb, don't know where to start with my TF-100
- Thread starter garybtru
- Start date
Thanks, is that what this stuff is?
I don't see the "grade" anywhere on the bag. Hmmm. Should I pass and keep looking?Edit: I think this is the stuff:
http://www.rwsidley.com/RWS.Product%20Information.Silica%20Filter%20Sand.03.02.15.pdf
Okay got it open, I'm no expert but I don't see any signs of channeling or hard clumps on the surface... here's a pic:
This was without a recent backwash. Last time I backwashed was a few days ago, I think.
So I guess I have 3 choices at this point, right?
1) Deep clean it, wait a day or 2 and see if the cloudiness improves.
2) Replace with this un-marked grade Sidley Pool Sand stuff I got, wait a day or 2 and see if cloudiness improves.
3) Return the Sidley un-marked grade stuff, try to find lighter-color "definitely #20 grade silica pool sand", replace the zeo with _that_, then wait a day or 2 and see if cloudiness improves.
What would you guys do if you were in my shoes? Thanks!
This was without a recent backwash. Last time I backwashed was a few days ago, I think.
So I guess I have 3 choices at this point, right?
1) Deep clean it, wait a day or 2 and see if the cloudiness improves.
2) Replace with this un-marked grade Sidley Pool Sand stuff I got, wait a day or 2 and see if cloudiness improves.
3) Return the Sidley un-marked grade stuff, try to find lighter-color "definitely #20 grade silica pool sand", replace the zeo with _that_, then wait a day or 2 and see if cloudiness improves.
What would you guys do if you were in my shoes?
Thanks!In your shoes I'd start with doing a deep clean, that Zeo salt water recharge thing, and then see if it improves. Meanwhile I'd contact Sidley to verify the grade, and find another source for sand just in case. I don't think color really matters, just depends on their source and any bleaching. If it doesn't improve in a day or two I would then switch to sand.
But if you're really anxious to get swimming, you could go ahead and switch at a tiny risk. If it's called pool filter sand it should be #20, but it's typically labeled as such. Saving the Zeo only adds a bit of work today and an extra day of monitoring, to save a decent chunk of change later. It could be Zeo works great when things are clear, just can't handle the algae stuff as well. Or from some research it looks like what makes it need a recharge is high chlorination, which a SLAM is. So it may be a bit incompatible with TFP methods as we don't advocate the industry "1-3 ppm" standard. It's up to you, but my goal would be to salvage sunk costs if possible, but be ready to quickly abandon if it's clear it won't work.
But if you're really anxious to get swimming, you could go ahead and switch at a tiny risk. If it's called pool filter sand it should be #20, but it's typically labeled as such. Saving the Zeo only adds a bit of work today and an extra day of monitoring, to save a decent chunk of change later. It could be Zeo works great when things are clear, just can't handle the algae stuff as well. Or from some research it looks like what makes it need a recharge is high chlorination, which a SLAM is. So it may be a bit incompatible with TFP methods as we don't advocate the industry "1-3 ppm" standard. It's up to you, but my goal would be to salvage sunk costs if possible, but be ready to quickly abandon if it's clear it won't work.
Alright! Thanks so much for sticking with me throughout the SLAM and giving me tons of advice! I know I say this in every post, but I really appreciate it.
I read that I have to completely disconnect the filter from the plumbing before a deep clean, but I have a side-mount filter... so the multi-port valve comes into the side of the sand filter. I can actually take off the top of the filter to get at it without needing to unhook the unions or the multi-port valve. Could I just plug the center pipe in the filter with a rubber wing-nut plug, and set the valve to "CLOSED" instead of undoing the unions and unscrewing the valve from the side?
Interesting re: needing a recharge due to high chlorination! Where did you find that info? Is the industry "1-3 ppm" standard something that "regular" sand deals with just fine?
I guess as long as things are plugged up it should be ok, but you could still run the risk of getting some sand in the pipe returning to the valve. It wouldn't be much, though, if it happened at all.
Now of course I can't find where I saw the thing about high chlorination. I guess for now ignore that tidbit until someone confirms! At any rate, regular sand can deal with pretty much any level of chlorination. Somewhere I thought I saw something about higher chlorination causing the zeo to lose something like a "charge" which the refresh operation puts back on. Either way I'm not confident that would be the issue here, since it should be the molecular structure of the sand that performs the filtration, and not some weird chemistry thing.
Now of course I can't find where I saw the thing about high chlorination. I guess for now ignore that tidbit until someone confirms! At any rate, regular sand can deal with pretty much any level of chlorination. Somewhere I thought I saw something about higher chlorination causing the zeo to lose something like a "charge" which the refresh operation puts back on. Either way I'm not confident that would be the issue here, since it should be the molecular structure of the sand that performs the filtration, and not some weird chemistry thing.
Okay, deep clean completed.
Here are a bunch of pictures detailing my process... I found a 1.5" rubber stopper that I wedged in the center pipe, and it held just fine the entire time. I followed the video and gently poked the sand w/ the hose running a light stream of water. A couple of times when I started pulling the hose back out, it got kinda "stuck" - I think under the laterals or the outlet center pipe (it's horizontal since I have a side-mounted valve). So I very, very carefully pushed and pulled a bit, reaching further down into the sand w/ my hand, and wiggled the hose side-to-side a bit while pulling, to "free" up the hose. It seemed to work, but spooked me a bit because I know the laterals are like the holy grail of the filter. So all the small leaves and bugs and stuff started floating out the top...
The water was always this kind of "greenish grey" color - the guy in the video said to do it until the water was clear... not sure if that meant clear as in "no more leaves and bugs and stuff coming outta the top" or "clear like tap water". I'm thinking the former, so after maybe 10-15 mins later, no more stuff was surfacing to the top:
Then I scooped out some of the water with a cup so I could get my rubber stopper out...
Then after I got it back together I emptied the pump basket, backwashed for about 5-6 minutes then rinsed for 1-2 minutes. Here's the sight glass after 3 mins:
And after 5 minutes:
There was still a tiny bit of what appeared to be sand(?) or dust or something. When backwashing, are you supposed to wait until the sight glass is _totally and completely clear_? I was worried my water level would have gotten too low if I kept waiting, so I switched it to "RINSE" for 1-2 minutes and flipped it back to "FILTER".
Then I checked the FC and it was down to 18.5 (after running around looking for sand all afternoon)! So I added a 128oz jug and 3 cups of 10% liquid chlorine to bring it back up to 24 and got to brushing. Here were the steps before brushing the whole pool:
"Still battling organics" indeed!! THEN after I brushed the whole thing I checked the steps again, and look at this...
This algae stuff is relentless. So now it's time for dinner and that wasn't exactly how I wanted to spend my afternoon, but hopefully this will help the filter do its thing. Should I check the FC in another couple of hours to make sure it's at 24?
Now I'm wondering if I should have done the salt water overnight thing instead of the 'deep clean', hmm. If this is how needy this Zeosand stuff is going to be, I'd rather just use "real" sand I think. Ugh. Anyway hopefully tomorrow things will be at least a little tiny bit clearer. We'll see.
Thanks again!
Here are a bunch of pictures detailing my process... I found a 1.5" rubber stopper that I wedged in the center pipe, and it held just fine the entire time. I followed the video and gently poked the sand w/ the hose running a light stream of water. A couple of times when I started pulling the hose back out, it got kinda "stuck" - I think under the laterals or the outlet center pipe (it's horizontal since I have a side-mounted valve). So I very, very carefully pushed and pulled a bit, reaching further down into the sand w/ my hand, and wiggled the hose side-to-side a bit while pulling, to "free" up the hose. It seemed to work, but spooked me a bit because I know the laterals are like the holy grail of the filter. So all the small leaves and bugs and stuff started floating out the top...
The water was always this kind of "greenish grey" color - the guy in the video said to do it until the water was clear... not sure if that meant clear as in "no more leaves and bugs and stuff coming outta the top" or "clear like tap water". I'm thinking the former, so after maybe 10-15 mins later, no more stuff was surfacing to the top:
Then I scooped out some of the water with a cup so I could get my rubber stopper out...
Then after I got it back together I emptied the pump basket, backwashed for about 5-6 minutes then rinsed for 1-2 minutes. Here's the sight glass after 3 mins:
And after 5 minutes:
There was still a tiny bit of what appeared to be sand(?) or dust or something. When backwashing, are you supposed to wait until the sight glass is _totally and completely clear_? I was worried my water level would have gotten too low if I kept waiting, so I switched it to "RINSE" for 1-2 minutes and flipped it back to "FILTER".
Then I checked the FC and it was down to 18.5 (after running around looking for sand all afternoon)! So I added a 128oz jug and 3 cups of 10% liquid chlorine to bring it back up to 24 and got to brushing. Here were the steps before brushing the whole pool:
"Still battling organics" indeed!! THEN after I brushed the whole thing I checked the steps again, and look at this...
This algae stuff is relentless. So now it's time for dinner and that wasn't exactly how I wanted to spend my afternoon, but hopefully this will help the filter do its thing. Should I check the FC in another couple of hours to make sure it's at 24?
Now I'm wondering if I should have done the salt water overnight thing instead of the 'deep clean', hmm. If this is how needy this Zeosand stuff is going to be, I'd rather just use "real" sand I think. Ugh. Anyway hopefully tomorrow things will be at least a little tiny bit clearer. We'll see.
Thanks again!
Last edited:
Whew, alright everyone, I got the 150 lbs of Zeosand switched out w/ 300 lbs of "regular" pool sand. I backwashed for about 5-6 minutes, rinsed for 2 minutes, then backwashed again for about 2 minutes and rinsed again for about 1 minute. The sight glass is perfectly clear on the RINSE, but during BACKWASH, it's still got what looks to be some sand in it:
You can see it swirling around on the left side of the sight glass. Should I keep backwashing and rinsing until the sight glass is crystal clear during the BACKWASH like it is during the RINSE?
Thanks! Fingers crossed that the Zeo was the problem and this new sand carries me to SLAM nirvana.
You can see it swirling around on the left side of the sight glass. Should I keep backwashing and rinsing until the sight glass is crystal clear during the BACKWASH like it is during the RINSE?
Thanks! Fingers crossed that the Zeo was the problem and this new sand carries me to SLAM nirvana.
It's normal to see sand in the sight glass during the backwash cycle. As long as the water itself is clear you're done backwashing. On the rinse cycle, you should never see sand (after it flushes out stuff that was there during backwash). If you do, that's a good way to tell your laterals are damaged.
Will cross my fingers in sand-SLAM solidarity!
Will cross my fingers in sand-SLAM solidarity!
drharris strikes again with the helping hand! Okay whew, thanks! So I'm all done backwashing then I guess! Here goes nothin'...
Okay whew, thanks! So I'm all done backwashing then I guess! Here goes nothin'...Looks good! I would also add some DE to help clear the pool...After the DE addition keep a watch on your pressures as they can really go up on you!
After 24 hours of the new sand I can just barely see the floor in the shallow end again. Whew. (Went about 5 days of not being able to see it with the "non-refreshed" ZeoSand). I mean I realize any time you replace the sand it's going to work well, but hopefully this "regular" sand keeps up the momentum and I can finally git r dun!!!
I know it's kinda hard to tell in the pic, but the bottom is definitely there! Gave it a good brushing this morning too.
I know it's kinda hard to tell in the pic, but the bottom is definitely there! Gave it a good brushing this morning too.
Oh, thanks, I forgot to post earlier today! I woke up this morning to a great Father's Day present - my drain is back!! Only had this sand in for 3 days and I can see the bottom of my deep end. Of course I brushed the heck outta the pool and got it a little cloudy again, but I know it'll bounce back. Almost there.
Never again w/ the ZeoSand!
Never again w/ the ZeoSand!
Alright, over the past 4-5 days (whew, time flies!) the cloudiness has been steadily improving.
Am I Done??
Last night: I added chlorine at 8:45pm and started the OCLT at around 9:20pm. Sunset was at 8:48pm. My first FC test was about 26 (i think) - I forgot to write it down immediately after testing and forgot to record the CC because I was distracted. So right away I re-tested it and got an FC of 24. I waited about 30 sec (reading the CC instructions and finding the R-0003 bottle) then tested CC's and the water was baaaarely barely pink. I almost think this was because I waited so long to start the CC test. So I added 1 drop and it cleared right up. (CC 0.5?)
(It rained overnight.)
This morning: Sunrise was at 5:30 but I tested at about 6:40. It wasn't "dark" outside, but there was definitely no direct sunlight on the pool. So I got an FC of 24, but AGAIN forgot to test the CC (lol). So on my second try I got an FC of 25, and the same exact CC situation as last night.
So to sum up:
Last Night: FC: 26/24, CC: 0-0.5
This Morning: FC: 24/25, CC: 0-0.5
What do you guys think?? SLAM approved or wait another day?
Edit: pics from this am!
Edit:
Please, SLAM gods, approve my humble submission! :O :O
My family awaits with baited breath!
Am I Done??
Last night: I added chlorine at 8:45pm and started the OCLT at around 9:20pm. Sunset was at 8:48pm. My first FC test was about 26 (i think) - I forgot to write it down immediately after testing and forgot to record the CC because I was distracted. So right away I re-tested it and got an FC of 24. I waited about 30 sec (reading the CC instructions and finding the R-0003 bottle) then tested CC's and the water was baaaarely barely pink. I almost think this was because I waited so long to start the CC test. So I added 1 drop and it cleared right up. (CC 0.5?)
(It rained overnight.)
This morning: Sunrise was at 5:30 but I tested at about 6:40. It wasn't "dark" outside, but there was definitely no direct sunlight on the pool. So I got an FC of 24, but AGAIN forgot to test the CC (lol). So on my second try I got an FC of 25, and the same exact CC situation as last night.
So to sum up:
Last Night: FC: 26/24, CC: 0-0.5
This Morning: FC: 24/25, CC: 0-0.5
What do you guys think?? SLAM approved or wait another day?
Edit: pics from this am!
Edit:
Please, SLAM gods, approve my humble submission! :O :O
My family awaits with baited breath!
Last edited:
Woo-hoo! Thanks! Fiiiiiiiiiinally! We've taken our first swim of the season! However, like a free inmate, I now have to adjust to the "normal" world. All I know is the SLAM world! So after the FC level gets down to a "normal" level, next do I just test CYA to be sure my non-SLAM target FC is correct? I believe my CYA was 50 or 60, so the target FC is 6-8 or 7-9 (7!). Then every morning I just need to test FC and pH and make adjustments as needed? Backwash and vacuum/brush once per week or as needed?
Thank you!!
Thank you!!
Let the FC drift down. Retest the CYA to get your targets and minimum for FC. Make sure the FC never drops below the minimum by the time you retest.
Clean the filter when the pressure rises 20-25% over your clean pressure.
Brush and vacuum as required.
Clean the filter when the pressure rises 20-25% over your clean pressure.
Brush and vacuum as required.
Thanks jblizzle! Whoa my CYA is down to 30! Re-tested 3 or 4 times, depending on tube height and my squinting factor, I got between 28 and 35, but it's closest to the 30 line. So looks like my target FC is 4-6. Should I increase it a bit?
Always round the cya up to the next level so if it was between 30 and 40 you round up to 40.