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Thread: Trouble raising FC?

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    Trouble raising FC?

    I am still learning the TFP method, although I think I am getting there. I have my TF-100 kit and speed stir, and I have tested my water twice so far, these are my numbers.

    May 9, 2017

    CYA - not tested, will test later (still adding conditioner at this time)
    FC - 3.5 - 4 (I accidentally dropped two drops at once, so I don't know if it would have taken 7 or 8 drops)
    CC - 0
    TC - 3.5 - 4.0
    TA - 30
    PH - 6.8
    Temp - 70 degree

    Yesterday, per Pool Math, I added 114oz of bleach (to raise FC from 4 to 7) and 11 pounds (to raise TA from 30 to 60) of baking soda

    These are my numbers today....
    May 11, 2017
    CYA - 45
    FC - 4.5
    CC - 1
    TC - 5.5
    TA - 90
    CH - 200
    Bor - 10
    PH - 7.5

    I think everything looks ok except maybe the FC, which should be higher. I don't understand about the other numbers.....even though I followed PoolMath exactly, I overshot the TA by 30 points. It does seem like the baking soda also raised the PH some, and I think the CYA is ok. So should I shoot for a FC of 6? Yesterday I used 14 cups of bleach to raise the FC by .5. Today PoolMath is calling for much less bleach to raise it from 4.5-6, when yesterday the amount that was supposed to raise it by 3 only raised it by .5. Should I continue to follow the PoolMath recommendations a few more days and see if my FC levels rise? Also, I have not intentionally added borates to my pool, so where do those come from? Thank you in advance
    Last edited by vbharrington; 05-11-2017 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Borate question
    Serena 33'x52" AGP, 25,600 gallons
    1.5 HP Pentair Pump, Heyward Sand Filter
    TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    PH Pen

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    How do you know that what you added yesterday to raise the FC by 3 only raised it 0.5? When did you do the 2nd FC test?

    Do you realize that you are supposed to be adding bleach every day since the pool will lose 2-4ppm every day?

    You should be able to test the chemical adjustments after about 30 minutes to confirm you are hitting your targets.

    The baking soda has a minor effect on the pH, but just having a higher TA will cause the pH to rise more quickly.
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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    My mistake - I did a chlorine test yesterday, the chlorine was 4.0. I added the bleach, and today, less than 24 hours later, it was at 4.5. That is why I said that the level was only raised by .5. I am still very new to the TFP method, and I guess I am having trouble adjusting my mindset to adding bleach daily, as opposed to adding tablets every other day.
    Serena 33'x52" AGP, 25,600 gallons
    1.5 HP Pentair Pump, Heyward Sand Filter
    TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    PH Pen

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    Sounds like it worked correctly then. The FC was raised by the bleach and dropped over 24 hours to basically where you started. You just want to be sure it does not drop below 4ppm based on your CYA level.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    vb,

    At this point do NOT add borates to your pool.. This will come much later and it is an option that not everyone needs or uses.

    It takes a few tests under your belt until you start understanding what the tests do and how much to add.

    I would concentrate on FC and get it up to 6 or 7 ppm.. Keep in mind that at the same time you are adding chlorine, your pool is using 2 to 4 ppm of chlorine each day.

    Over time you will get a feel for how much your pool uses and also get a feel for how much needs to be added, using Pool Math of course for direction..

    Relax.. things will turn out fine...

    If you would, it would help our old eyes if you would post like the example below...

    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA

    At this point nothing else matters to us..

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Defgufman's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    I have found my pool is easier to maintain at 50 to 60 cya. It seemed as if I burned off more fc daily when I fell below 50. Typically I run through 1 to 2 ppm fc a day. My pool has been squeaky clean for 3 straight seasons using the tfp method.
    Inground 13,200 gal Vinyl, Pentair 3/4 hp pump, Pentair Sand Dollar filter, Polaris 280

    Pool School, Pool Math, CYA to FC ratio chart, Testing Kits

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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    Ok, a couple more newbie questions:

    I haven't intentionally added borates, so I'm not sure how they got there - could they have been in my "city water" that I used to fill up my pool?

    I have the TF-100 kit which is awesome! However, I have a terrible time "matching" colors on the "daily" chlorine test kit that is included with the set. Does anyone else use the "weekly" chlorine test on a daily basis?

    When the TF-100 instructions state to look for the color to turn red - does it mean red-red, or pink? Also, do I stop adding drops when it is barely pink, or when it is noticeably pink?

    How long do most people typically run their filters? I know to run it for several hours after adding chemicals, but ours has been going almost non stop for a week. I can already see Duke Energy rubbing their hands in anticipation of our next power bill.
    Serena 33'x52" AGP, 25,600 gallons
    1.5 HP Pentair Pump, Heyward Sand Filter
    TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    PH Pen

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    Quote Originally Posted by vbharrington View Post
    Ok, a couple more newbie questions:

    I haven't intentionally added borates, so I'm not sure how they got there - could they have been in my "city water" that I used to fill up my pool?
    No. But pool stores sell a variety of magic potions that contain borax. So do some trichlor pucks, to counter the acidic effects.
    I have the TF-100 kit which is awesome! However, I have a terrible time "matching" colors on the "daily" chlorine test kit that is included with the set. Does anyone else use the "weekly" chlorine test on a daily basis?
    Yes.
    When the TF-100 instructions state to look for the color to turn red - does it mean red-red, or pink? Also, do I stop adding drops when it is barely pink, or when it is noticeably pink?
    Red usually means pink. When doing, say, the TA test, if at 7 it looks grey, at 8 it looks pink, at 9 it looks barbie pink, and at 10 it doesn't change, TA is 90.
    How long do most people typically run their filters? I know to run it for several hours after adding chemicals, but ours has been going almost non stop for a week. I can already see Duke Energy rubbing their hands in anticipation of our next power bill.
    I manage on two or three depending on temperature and usage. In brief, once the pool looks perfect and the chemistry is right, you just reduce the run time a little each day until it doesn't look so perfect and then go back up. See Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble raising FC?

    V,

    I doubt you have any borates in your pool... in your case the color math kit is for CL, you can ignore the Br readings...

    I never, well almost never, use the color match kit to determine my chlorine level.. I always use the powder method. (FAS/DPD)

    I'm not sure what test you are referring too when you say "red"????

    Here is my standard answer to your pump run time question...

    Each pool is a little different... You generally run a pump for three reasons:

    1. To keep surface debris moving and being pushed into the skimmers. The more debris the more often you need to run the pump.

    2. If you have a Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWCG) you'll need to run it long enough to generate the amount of chlorine needed.

    3. To circulate the water to ensure the chlorine is effectively distributed throughout the pool. Two or three hours per day is all that is needed for this to happen in most pools.

    There really is no one answer that fits everyone.

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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