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Thread: CYA Help

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    spiazza's Avatar
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    CYA Help

    I'm been following this forums for about a week now and I like what I'm reading.

    This is my 1st year owning a pool (purchased with house). I had a "pro" open the pool. We recently added SWG to the system.

    After reading some info and testing, I see my CYA is off the charts. I don't have a true CYA test kit (order is in the mail), so I've been subjected to using test strips. CYA registers somewhere between 100-300. I did a 50/50 test and the result was 30-50ppm. I would like it to be at 60-80ppm due to SWG.

    I partially drained the pool twice. I have an inground vinyl. 21000 gallons. I drained from midskimmer level to below skimmer and then refilled with tap. Is it safe to drain lower? I've heard horror stories. I have been draining using main drain in deep end. Closed valves on other skimmers. Is this safe? How many more time will have have to do this partial drain procedure until I see progress?

    The entire procedure is very frustrating because I feel like I'm not seeing results with amount of time it has taken to do the two partial drains and refills.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Steve

    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end.
    Goldline SWG
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    Usually its safe for most pools to drain about 1/3 down, that won't affect your liner and if you are using the bottom drain so that should be good, you have the right idea. Once you have your testkit you'll have much more accurate readings than the strips. You'll be in good shape.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: CYA Help

    If you only recently added the SWG, I would suggest waiting and seeing how everything turns out. The CYA will drift down due to splashout & refills (or, if you are here in the NE, the ridiculous amount of rain we have had this month).

    I convinced my neighbor to switch to a SWG after 7 or 8 years of Trichlor. Her CYA was extremely high as well, but there was no way she was going to do any substantial draining/refilling. Even though her CYA is still high, her pool is back to being clear and easy to maintain (she switched because of algae problems). While having high CYA with the SWG is not perfect, it seems to work and the CYA will drop to more a more normal range in time. You do want to keep your FC higher, maybe in the 6 to 9 ppm range, but that should be easy with the SWG.
    20 x 40 vinyl IG. SWG. Solar. Ikeric VS pump.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    I would confirm your CYA level first before you decide not to drain. If it's very high, and you do develop and algae problem, shocking will be virtually impossible to maintain.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    spiazza's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    Even though I have SWG, I don't want to have to maintain a higher than normal FC level because of the CYA. The prior home owner used Leslie dichlor exclusively so I'd like to get the CYA down to a level I can measure. I don't feel good with them being off the charts.

    I am in the Mid-Atlantic area so we have been getting a lot of rain but it really hasn't made a difference in the CYA level.

    I just received the Test Kit in the mail this morning. I'm going to test with it shortly.

    I already started a drain today at 6am. I drained to approx 2" below skimmer. I'm refilling now. I will set pump to circulate for 30-1hr and the test with kit.

    Yesterday I performed two drains (down to bottom of skimmer and refilled water to skimmer center arrow).

    I'll will post the CYA results. I believe the kit only tests up to 100ppm so I will likely have to do a dilute the test if measurement over 100.
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    Re: CYA Help

    I completed the refill and performed a CYA test this morning.

    I had to 50/50 the test with filtered water. The result was 140ppm.

    Should i continue the drain and refill procedure? I'm on day 3 of this. It takes a long time to refill so I can't do more than 1 or 2 a day.

    Should I be concerned about the chemical levels in the water while trying to get CYA correct? I know my TC and FC is low. I don't want algae forming while I'm doing the drain/refill process but at the same time I don't want to put chemicals into the pool that I will be draining out.

    Any advice is appreciated with my situation. Very frustrated.
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    Yes, you should continue replacing water until the CYA level is more reasonable. Add some chlorine while the pool is full and give it 30 minutes to mix in with the pump running before starting to drain/refill again.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    spiazza's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    Ok. Will do.

    I'm draining now. I'm having a tough time determining how low to drop the water. I'm trying for 1/3 of pool volume. I have a high water table in my backyard so I want to be cautions as well.

    Last time the pool was fill, the SWG had enough salt to generate chlorine so I will use in addition to adding chlorine manually.

    I'm switching to the BBB method and now I need to find where I can purchase liquid chlorine in NJ, else I'll have to purchase some more 6% bleach from supermarket.
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    Re: CYA Help

    A high water table does make the process more tedious because it limits how much you can drain.

    If you're going to continue using the SWG then you should target around CYA 80, so starting from CYA 140 you're shooting to replace about 40% of your original water. If each drain and refill is about 10% of your pool volume, then you'll need to do it 5-6 times to get 40% of the original water.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    spiazza's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    After 5 partial drains/refills, I have the CYA down to 90 . I put in two 182oz clorox prior to the 5th drain (last night at 7pm). The FC and TC are very high this morning (beyond the scale of my limited chlorine measuring tool). I just ordered a TFP CC kit last night so that will help give me an accurate reading in the future. I will just have to estimate level in the meantime.

    I'm going to do 1 more partial drain (not so shallow this time). I only need to replace 11% of the water.

    PH 7.2
    TA 100
    Salt 2000

    I lost some salt in the drain/refill process so after I get the CYA to around 70-80, I will measure salt level and replenish the pool with salt according to Pool School instructions (pour in salt, mix around until dissolved, filter with SWG off for 24hrs).

    I will post again with all the chemical numbers once I get the CYA level down a little more.

    I have had two lingering pool issue before discovering the CYA issue. I will likely need some help with these once I get everything balanced.

    1) A slight yellowish discoloration in the deep end floor (near main drain). Looks like liner stains but sometimes I feel its yellow algea. I try to brush it put it doesn't move. Sometimes I feel like it's spreading. Algea would make more sense because of the low FC levels I've been keeping in the pool in relation to the high CYA levels I had. I probably have never raised the pool to shock level before because I never took CYA into account.

    2) Brown discoloration on the steps of the pool (its been present ever since I inherited pool last year). I performed a calcium test on the stains and they lifted. I picked up some Jack's magic step stuff and 1 32oz jack's purple stuff (sequester for swg pools).
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    Re: CYA Help

    Calcium test? Do you mean Vitamin C test? Use the sequesterant -monthly maintenance dosing - to prevent the stains on the steps from returning.

    The stains in the bottom are either also metal stains, but sounds to me like they are probably organic staining - not truly algae but similar in that maintaining proper FC levels will make them fade away over time. Once your CYA is stable and your FC is at proper levels, they should fade (I had something similar in my pool back in the day....they're gone now.)
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: CYA Help

    I meant Vitamin C test. Sorry for the slip up.

    Thanks for the feedback on those two issues. I'm hoping the stains clear themselves up as time goes on and I further use the BBB method.

    I am thinking of trying the ascorbic acid treatment. It is cheaper than the Jack's Magic Steps stuff.

    Can you recommend a cheaper alternative to Jack's Purple stuff for SWG pools?
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    No. Unfortunately the AA treatment still requires that you use sequesterant on a maintenance basis. The treatment removes the stains, but puts the metals "back in solution". IF you don't use sequesterant too, they can just redeposit on pool surfaces. Jack's is the best. If you do a google search (bottom left corner) of the forum for sequesterants, there are many topics that discuss sequesterants and the options out there.

    AFter about 2 months of BBB my organic stains were gone and never returned.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: CYA Help

    I've completed the dropping of CYA. I added salt to bring ppm back up. Here are my stats right now:

    CYA = 75
    TC = .5
    FC = 0
    TA = 80
    PH = 7.3

    I just started up the SWG again. It's running at 90% right now.

    I plan on adding 1.4 jugs of 182oz bleach to get the FC to 6. I'm hoping the SWG will be able to take over from there. Does this sound like a good plan? I don't want to the pool to sit long with 0 FC.
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    Yes, and you're doing the right thing you don't want the FC that low.

    However, I would turn down the SWG to whatever the "normal level" would be (running that high shortens the cell life) and just supplement with liquid chlorine or bleach until things are stable. Tonight would be a good idea to run an overnight FC loss test with the swg off, to make sure the FC is holding.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    spiazza's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    Thanks for the help. I will do a FC test overnight tonight. I know the FC was around 8ppm yesterday morning. We got lots of sun yesterday so some of than may have burnt off. There is a good chance the pool needs to be shocked but I should find that out after tonight's overnight test.
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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    Re: CYA Help

    I put in 215oz of bleach at 11am (according to pool calc). I just tested FC and TC again (4pm) and they were both nearly 0. Pool got sun for half the day. SWG at 60%. Filter with SWG been running since 10:30am

    Should I shock the pool to 21ppm (5 182oz jugs) tonight and then perform FC overnight test? My issue with doing this is I don't have a FC test kit yet that reads about 10ppm (my new kit is in the mail).
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    You need more chlorine, probably a lot more chlorine. With CYA at 75, the great majority of your chlorine was lost to algae. You should be raising FC up to at least 21 at least twice a day, and preferably more often than that. Your current test kit should be able to handle that for the moment, though when the FC level starts holding it will be good to have the new test kit.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19
    spiazza's Avatar
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    Re: CYA Help

    Do long do I keep shock level up? Until FC passes overnight test?

    The pool water is clear.

    Is it unsafe to use the pool with TC levels at shock level?
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

  20. Back To Top    #20
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    SAFE FC Level

    Topics Merged.

    If I have a CYA level of 75, what is the range of FC (minimum and maximum) for safe swimming ?
    My Pool Stats
    IG Pool - 21,000 Gallon - Vinyl Liner
    Hayward 1.5HP Super Pump EE; Hayward DE Filter; Goldline SWG
    32' x 16', 8' deep at the deep end, about 3' shallow end

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