Swim Pure Plus and Tri Star Variable speed Controller

[dravenone]

I've submitted this question to Hayward support and so far I get the standard answer which is no help. I know I am the "site tester" for this new pump but hopefully someone in the know can help me here.

I have the Tr Star variable speed pump with the tri Star Variable speed controller (not aqualogic). I am trying to find out if there is a way I can turn the power to the swim pure plus off and on using the TS variable speed controller. the controller has a digital timer to turn the pump on and off and I wonder if I can use it to tun the swg on and off as well. So the swg is only powered and operating when the pump is. I am trying not to depend on the flow switch only.

If there is no way to do that then is there a way the controller can trigger a relay when the pump turns on, and I can use the realy to turn the swg on and off. I am aware of the units you loop the pump wires through and they detect load and close a relay but I am trying to avoid something that size.

If I can't do either then I will just run the swg on a seperate digital timer. Thanks!!

 

[dravenone]

I think the answer to my question is no. The manual states the controller is an Emerson SK drive. A google search turned up the first screen shot which looks to me like a detailed description of the drive in my control unit, which is the second screen shot from the hayward manual.

[attachment=0:1t27di7o]Emersondrive.jpg[/attachment:1t27di7o]

 

[JasonLion]

You can get current sensing relays, that detect power going to the motor and turn on the SWG. So it is possible. This is not a common thing to do, however. So you may need to do a little digging to find the right parts to set this up.

 

[dravenone]

Thanks Jason, I think I will just recycle a 240v mechanical timer until I can spring for a digital. I'll just set the start time a bit after the pump start time and the stop time about an hour before the pump.

Hopefully I will have good news to report next week. The electrical has been run and the control boxes have been mounted. I just need to plumb the new equipment and make the electrical connections at the pad.

 

[dravenone]

Just to officialy close the loop on this one. Here is the final reply from Hayward tech support.

"You cannot connect directly to the variable speed controller. The
Swum Pure unit should be wired to the line side(always powered)."

 

[Bama Rambler]

Not quite closed yet.

If you look at the Hayward diagram you'll notice that they're using the status relay on the drive to switch the power to a fan. All you have to do is get a 120volt relay and wire it to "T6" and neutral. If there's no neutral available then you can still buy a 230v relay and hook it to L1 & "T6".

 

[Ohm_Boy]

Well, if you really have the Emerson unit, you can probably use that "Zero-Speed" signal at the B3 terminal to operate another relay. It should drop to 0 volts whenever the motor is being driven, and a small 24v DC relay connected between terminal B2 (+24v) and terminal B3 should energize when the motor is stopped. You only have ~100 milliamps (0.1 amp) available here, so you may need a pretty small relay, but you can use it to control a larger relay if necessary.

 

[dsam]

I've submitted this question to Hayward support and so far I get the standard answer which is no help. I know I am the "site tester" for this new pump but hopefully someone in the know can help me here.

I have the Tr Star variable speed pump with the tri Star Variable speed controller (not aqualogic). I am trying to find out if there is a way I can turn the power to the swim pure plus off and on using the TS variable speed controller. the controller has a digital timer to turn the pump on and off and I wonder if I can use it to tun the swg on and off as well. So the swg is only powered and operating when the pump is. I am trying not to depend on the flow switch only.

If there is no way to do that then is there a way the controller can trigger a relay when the pump turns on, and I can use the realy to turn the swg on and off. I am aware of the units you loop the pump wires through and they detect load and close a relay but I am trying to avoid something that size.

If I can't do either then I will just run the swg on a seperate digital timer. Thanks!!

I'm trying to understand your reasonings for the separate timer. My pool was recently built and I have the same pump/timer as you with the aqua rite SWG. I'm trying to learn about all this new equiptment.

 

[dravenone]

The main reason is me being my normal paranoid self. When installing the SWG with a 1 or 2 speed pump on a timer, the SWG is wired into the load side of the timer. So, the SWG has power when the pump has power and can only function when the pump is on. This is how the install manual wants you to do it (asuming you don't have automation). I'm trying not to depend on the flow switch alone, especially since the manufacturer instructions don't provide this configuration as an option. I know others here do it with no problems and I may do it as well, if I can't get Ohm_Boy or Bama Rambler's suggestions to work. I guess I'm trying to get as close to the recommended install method as I can.

Dsam, so is the power for your Aquarite hard wired and uses the flow switch to turn it on and off?

 

[JasonLion]

Flow switches are not the most reliable things. If the SWG runs while the pump is off it could damage it's self or even possibly explode (unlikely). So it is nice to have something in addition to the flow switch that will turn off the SWG when the pump is off.

 

[dsam]

The main reason is me being my normal paranoid self. When installing the SWG with a 1 or 2 speed pump on a timer, the SWG is wired into the load side of the timer. So, the SWG has power when the pump has power and can only function when the pump is on. This is how the install manual wants you to do it (asuming you don't have automation). I'm trying not to depend on the flow switch alone, especially since the manufacturer instructions don't provide this configuration as an option. I know others here do it with no problems and I may do it as well, if I can't get Ohm_Boy or Bama Rambler's suggestions to work. I guess I'm trying to get as close to the recommended install method as I can.

Dsam, so is the power for your Aquarite hard wired and uses the flow switch to turn it on and off?

Yes, I have the Tri star variable speed control, which has been programed to run continously at
20% power for 23 hrs, 55min @ 60% power for the cleaner. it turns off for only a few minutes a day and manualy to clean the filter. My SWG is not fully operational yet, the pool builder is on his second day (today) of adding salt and performing the start up procedure.
When the salt is up to the proper ppm the pool guy is gonna sit down with me and explain the operations with me, These are good questions to aks the guy.

 

[dravenone]

I asked Emerson support about the ports that the controllers cooling fan are connected to and they could only speak to the drives default config. Here is the response I got.

"Terminal T5 & T6, by default, closes when the drive is healthy. When the drive trips on a fault the relay contact will open. Mind you, the relay can also be programmed to open/close depending on other conditions based on parameter #08.27 in the drive."

I finally got my pump running and so far it seems like the fan runs when the pump is operating, but I can't watch it for a 24 hour period, so I'm still not sure.

Dsam, thanks for posting your settings. I think I am overcomplicating my setup. If I have a long runtime like you then I can manually speed the pump up if I have swimmers and then turn it back down afterwards. What kind of cleaner are you using??

 

[Ohm_Boy]

I can't speak for this controller in particular, but when I was designing and programming for some other VS motor controls (Indramat, Baldor Yaskawa, Allen-Bradley) I typically used the zero-speed output for ancillary control. Most of the time, it was used inverted to disengage the motor brake, but that signal is designed to indicate when the motor is moving or not regardless of speed. It might be worth hanging a meter on it to see what it's doing in your case... it may serve your purpose.

just sayin'...

 

[dravenone]

Thanks Ohm_Boy I will look into that. I followed up with Emerson regarding the default config of T5 and T6. I asked them,

"Staying with the default configuration, and assuming the drive is
healthy and is operating a motor, T5 & T6 would be closed regardless if
the motor is operating or not?"

Emerson replied,

" That is correct. It will only open upon a fault."

then later expanded that response,

"Correction on the last e-mail as I poorly worded it ... the
relay will stay closed until the drive faults then the relay contacts
will open."

So it sounds to me that T5 and T6 have been re-programed to operate the fan. And what I still don't know is what triggers its operation. I am guessing it either goes on and off with the pump or goes on with pump but possibly cycles based on the temperature the drive is reporting (there is a menu option to see the drives temperature). Maybe I am over complicating it?

Hopefully I get a chance to look into Ohm_Boy's suggestion this weekend and report back.