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Thread: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

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    What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    So I have been a pool owner for 3 years and am learning something new every day. I am looking for some advice on heating the pool in Upstate NY

    Facts:

    Pool is 20x40 Vinyl almost 40K gallons.
    East Facing so Sun from 10am-5pm most days.
    Use solar cover
    The water is typically 75-80

    My house is the party house so I want to be able to keep the pool warm late into the evening some times.

    I am in a town that has a deal for cheap electric < .040 KWH (the reason for my dilema)
    My typical electric bill in the winter is 40 Bucks with the Hot tub running
    When summer hits and the pool starts I run the pump 24/7 and the bill is about 60-70 bucks

    Do I go solar because it's only a few degrees I want to raise
    OR
    Do I get a Heat pump to ensure the temp I want and don't have to deal with issues with leaks and cloudy days.
    I found a scratch and Dent Aqua Pro 127K btu for 2750 out the door.

    Any Advice is awesome
    20x40 Vinyl in Cinder 30,000K Gal, Hayward Sand filter, Hayward Superpump 1.5hp

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Hmmmm.... well... one of our pool experts who live in Texas actually has both solar and a heat pump.

    Is a 127K BTU even big enough to make a dent in a 40,000 gallon pool? I dunno.....?

    Is natural gas an option where you are?

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    How deep is your pool to be 40k gallons? My 20x40 is 8.5 deep, and comes out to about 30-31k gallons. With electric that cheap I wouldn't flinch at getting a heat pump. I'm looking at solar soon, but I spend more on electricity and live further south. Depending on how long you want the swimming season to be, and the price of natural gas, a gas heater may be an option.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    No idea where Fairport is. You can add your city to your location so we can help better.

    20x40x5 feet deep is 30k gallons
    20x40x4 feet deep is 24k gallons

    I have solar and a heat pump. Solar is free and great. But, doesn't work when it is cloudy or raining. It is nice to be able to heat anytime. If you are close on temp normally then I would go with a heat pump.

    A 127k btu would heat 30k gallons 1 degree every 2-1/2 hours or so.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Yeah it is 30k don't know why I said 40k. My wife and I are both PE teachers and with a 10 month old I plan on using the pool almost every day. I'm thinking the heat pump is the way to go.

    Any advice on the AquaPro.... it's from
    pool heat pumps.com

    Refurbished Pool Heat Pumps | Poolheatpumps.com

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Yee, being in NY makes me recommend a heat pump even more. Quite a few folks have bought from those guys over the years. Be sure to have the heat pump refrigerant checked annually same as a home heat pump. I added mine to my spring and fall hvac service contract.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    This past weekend I was able to get my 13k gallons from 59 degrees up to 74. That's with running the heat pump about 10 hours each day for two days. My heat pump is only 75kbtu. No solar hooked up yet.

    Obviously you would need a bigger heat pump but if you want to keep your pool warm for the season but a heat pump is a great option.
    Chuck-
    15x30 AG, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Is natural gas an option? If yes, I would give it serious consideration.

    I got a 400K BTU Ray Pak heater for around $2K and then had a to have a (fairly long) gas line run out to the pool so total cost was probably comparable to the $2750 you mention for the heat pump.

    My pool is about 25K gallons and that Ray Pak heats about 2 degrees each hour and it has been a game changer for our family.
    Dedicated TFPer since 2012 with recommended test kit
    AGP, 30 foot, 21,000 gallons with these homemade islands
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    Raypak 400K BTU NG Heater! (Model 406a - installed 2015)
    Pool installed in 2006? (just a guess, pool came with house I purchased in June 2012)

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    The price of my electric has me leaning towards a pump. At .0395 KWH my daily cost will be less than 2 bucks once I get it to temp. I also want to be able to swim all the time so I would need to leave it on all the time.. anyone ever do that with gas?
    20x40 Vinyl in Cinder 30,000K Gal, Hayward Sand filter, Hayward Superpump 1.5hp

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    We have a heat pump because we wanted to keep our pool at a constan 80+ degrees every day. So happy we opted for the heat pump. Ours is a RayPac 133k btu; the pool is 20 x 40 / 30,000 gallons. The heat pump raises the water temp 1 degree every hour or 45 minutes (assuming outdoor temps in mid50s or better). When we opened the pool in early March this year, outdoor temps were 55 during the day and low 40s at night, and we still were able to bring the pool temp from 60 to 80 degrees in 3 days. With the pool heater set at 80, the pool has hovered between 80 and 86 depending on the sun/outdoor temp (so far as high as 88 degrees with most days around 70).

    We have an autocover, which helps significantly by maintaining the pool temps at night.

    I would not want a propane heater for the pool because it is too easy to run up a huge propane bill. If we had a spa, that would be different.
    IG Gunite 20x40 pool with Pebbletec finish (Tahoe blue with luminous glass in mixed jade); Pentair DE Filter and Pump; Intellibrite LED lights; RayPac 8350 Heat and Cool Heat Pump; NPT Arctic Ice glass tile; Coverstar autocover; Cambridge Renaissance Pavers in Onyx Lite; bluestone coping.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Yankeelawyer, can you estimate how much the cost has been to heat the pool up so?

    I occasionally play scratch off lottery cards and told Skippy that if I win anything it is going towards a pool heater. <fingers crossed!>

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Hi Maddie,

    I will try to figure out the cost of running the heat pump when we get the next bill. I am not sure how much it added above just running the rest of the pool equipment, but our bills generally are low.
    IG Gunite 20x40 pool with Pebbletec finish (Tahoe blue with luminous glass in mixed jade); Pentair DE Filter and Pump; Intellibrite LED lights; RayPac 8350 Heat and Cool Heat Pump; NPT Arctic Ice glass tile; Coverstar autocover; Cambridge Renaissance Pavers in Onyx Lite; bluestone coping.

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Don't even consider gas with electric prices that low and you stating how you want to use the heater. If you want to do what you're describing, get it up to temp and leave it there for the season, the heat pump is the way to go. We are doing the same thing. You don't want to use a gas heater to heat the pool and maintain that temperature all season long, it will cost you way more in energy costs. That electric rate is ridiculous, about 1/4 of what it is in my area, which really makes this decision a no brainer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You should change the title of this thread to get rid of the "NOT", this is a very easy answer in my opinion!
    Inground vinyl 23'x40' Aspen shape, ~27K gallons, Sta-Rite Intellipro 2 VST Pump, Sta-Rite System:3 Mod DE Filter (60 sq ft), Hybrid In-Floor System (Paramount Valve with Caretaker Heads), AquaComfort Heat Pump, 3x Savi Melody Sol 28W LED Lights, Pentair IC60 SWCG, EasyTouch Automation with ScreenLogic, TF-100 test kit.

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    The tough part was deciding between solar and HP. Because the temp is usually close thought solar might work. But not on cold days.
    20x40 Vinyl in Cinder 30,000K Gal, Hayward Sand filter, Hayward Superpump 1.5hp

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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Heat pump this year and solar next or vise versa. Best of both worlds.
    Chuck-
    15x30 AG, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Yes, having solar and a heat pump has been great.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Gas. Heat pumps are junk in the northeast unless it's mid june to mid august. But i like my pool 84-88 degrees.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Definitely HP over solar. If the pool is nearly the right temp already, the heat pump won't cost you anything. So solar gains you nothing. And if it is not near temp, the heat pump will get it there and keep it there way better than solar.
    16 x 32 18,000 gal IG vinyl pool. 1.5HP SuperFlo VS pump. Hayward C4030 425 sq ft cartridge filter. Hotspot FPH heat reclamation pool heater.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406 View Post
    Gas. Heat pumps are junk in the northeast unless it's mid june to mid august. But i like my pool 84-88 degrees.
    Yeah, my house had a heat pump on Virginia Beach and it was junk! My electric bills were enormous. I think HPs are best suited for down south.

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: What Type of Heat.....NOT AN EASY ANSWER

    Heat pumps will work fine in the north to heat pools, maybe (probably) not houses in the winter. A heat pump can make plenty of heat when air temps are 50 or above, even better 60 or above. Most people don't heat pools for swimming until air temps are at least 65 or 70 right? The lowest air temp I have swam at recently was 74 or so and even with 88 degree water it wasn't that great.
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