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Thread: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

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    Hey_Zeus's Avatar
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    Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Hello All, I've been lurking a while need some help.

    Here is the background: I am installing a 19,000 Gunite pool in Florida by myself. (Meaning, I'm doing it as a owner builder and subbing out what I can't do). I'm an engineer so I have a good handling on most of the issues, just have some specific questions I would love some help on. I've been searching and reading old stuff, can't find a clear answer to this one though.

    Our current point in the process is Gunite is done and cured and plumbing is done also. I've installed all the plumbing and the pump is now sitting under pressure for testing.

    I'm now moving on to the electrical portion of the work. I'll have a separate question later about 12V DC light wiring, but wanted to ask about my pump setup.


    I am installing the Pentair Intelliflo Variable speeed pump:
    https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media/...ew_english.pdf

    I am also using the Pentair IC40 SWG
    https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media/...11_english.pdf


    I've read this, but it doesn't address my question:
    How To Install a Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump - INYOPools.com


    My question is, when I wire my Variable speed pump without a timer (Pentair has a built in controller no need for a timer, in fact a timer aka disconnect would defeat the purpose of the on board scheduling), how do I wire the SWG?

    If I use a time for the SWG, I don't see how I can guarantee syncing the power between the VS Pump and the SWG.

    Without an external controller, what's the idea wiring setup for a Variable Speed Pump with a SWG?

    Should I always power the SWG and rely on the flow sensor (I read where everyone says these fail and shouldn't be relied upon) or should I have a timer and just sync the clocks myself?

    Seems like this sould be a common question, but I don't see the answer... maybe I'm missing it.

    Thanks for your help! (sorry if I put this in the wrong section lol)

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Firsthand experience: none.

    But I did remember reading a few years back about this, so I searched out a thread Current Sensor/relay switching for SWG
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Your going to need something to control the on/ off cycle of the swcg. I would highly recomend at least an easytouch 4. Assuming your using pentair led lighting as well, this will control the lighting color, pump speed, swcg etc
    Pool: 14,000-gal IG
    Filter: Pentair Sand Dollar, Pump: Pentair Superflo VS
    Automation: Pentair EasyTouch w/ Autelis, Lighting:Globrite
    Pentair SWG IC20, Prowler 820, K-2006


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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    There are workarounds but that SWCG is designed to be controlled by automation.

    If you want something simple you are going to need another SWCG
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Couple Things.

    Yes, I did install the Pentair Intellibright Low Voltage lights. However, I have those on a z-wave switch so I can control lights with Alexa

    For the EasyTouch 4, I plan on building my own controller after we fill the pool. the VSP has an output channel that tells me what the pump is doing, I'll have a controller hooked up to that with a relay to cycle the SWG power. I guess my wiring question is more for right now than permanent.

    I plan on piggy backing off this work:
    How I Control The Pool | sdYoung.com

    The pump is wired to a 20 amp 2 pole GFI, so I guess I'm just confirming that I should wire directly to the same wires for the pump for the GFI protection.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    I have an intelliflo and a IC 40. I installed a manual Intermatic T104R timer to turn the SWG on and off when I want it to. This lets you do whatever you want with programs, run times and other such things.

    its an easy 70 $ fix that gives you maximum flexibility with your pump and SWG.

    Run the power cable into the Intermatic Timer Box. Splice some wires onto the Power cable and connect them to the timer per the schematic that comes with it. Very simple to do.
    Continue with power cable out of the Intermatic box and on the pump with one set of wires, and with the other set, out of the Intermatic box and into the Power Center of the IC 40.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey_Zeus View Post
    Couple Things.

    Yes, I did install the Pentair Intellibright Low Voltage lights. However, I have those on a z-wave switch so I can control lights with Alexa

    For the EasyTouch 4, I plan on building my own controller after we fill the pool. the VSP has an output channel that tells me what the pump is doing, I'll have a controller hooked up to that with a relay to cycle the SWG power. I guess my wiring question is more for right now than permanent.

    I plan on piggy backing off this work:
    How I Control The Pool | sdYoung.com

    The pump is wired to a 20 amp 2 pole GFI, so I guess I'm just confirming that I should wire directly to the same wires for the pump for the GFI protection.
    It is incredible what you can do with the arduino and similar units if you can do some coding (or shamelessly poach it). The commercially available controllers are so bulky because they take so long to get into production that they are basically old technology by the time they begin to sell them. The plug-and-play aspect of the Pentair controller is pretty nice though. Anyway, if all you want to do for now is get the system up and running a simple timer to control the intelliflo as Divin Dave recommended is the way to go. The power supply only draws 2 amps so you don't need much of a timer.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    I have an intelliflo and a IC 40. I installed a manual Intermatic T104R timer to turn the SWG on and off when I want it to. This lets you do whatever you want with programs, run times and other such things.

    its an easy 70 $ fix that gives you maximum flexibility with your pump and SWG.

    Run the power cable into the Intermatic Timer Box. Splice some wires onto the Power cable and connect them to the timer per the schematic that comes with it. Very simple to do.
    Continue with power cable out of the Intermatic box and on the pump with one set of wires, and with the other set, out of the Intermatic box and into the Power Center of the IC 40.

    So I think I'm going to breakdown and use the Intermatic T101R 220V for now. This is how I plan on wiring it.
    https://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-T1...9H7E36KH3JTP2Y

    20170502_114329.jpg

    I'll connect Supply to the Timer at L1 and L2, I'll also connect the pump to L1 and L2 so it's always powered. I'll have the timer control load 1 and load 2 which is connected to the SWG.

    This way, pool pump is always powered so it's internal timer handles everything, and the SWG is controlled by the Intermatic Timer.

    Thoughts?

    Edit: Not shown in diagram, but obvious grounding wire from Supply, Pump and SWG connected to grounding lug at bottom.....

    Looking to wire it up tonight.

    Sam

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quick follow up for planning, what are the knockouts on the bottom? Are they both 1/2 inch or both 3/4? or a mix? Would love to be able to have 3/4 in and 1/2 out. Suprising the online documentation doesn't dictate it.

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    I believe a simple Relay connected to the L1-N, that in turn would close and power up the SWG is the simplest and inexpensive method, but engineers always want to break things that are not broken! So fire away!

    Felipe
    7,500 gal Rectangular, Easytouch 8, Air+water temp sensors, Screenlogic2, IC40, intellibright5g color12v, Intelli pH, SD 70 filter w/Zeolit, Magicstream Laminars, waterfall. Raised Monolithic concrete lined with glass beads.

    In Sunny Monterrey,Mx!

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Tivo View Post
    I believe a simple Relay connected to the L1-N, that in turn would close and power up the SWG is the simplest and inexpensive method, but engineers always want to break things that are not broken! So fire away!

    Felipe
    We want to simplify things.

    Can you explain how you would hook up this relaya little more? I"m assuming youa re suggesting I don't need the Intermatic.

    Are you talking a relay direct at the pump connection?

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Yes a direct connection to the back of the motor for the relay. No deed for heavy gauge wire. From the relay to the SWG use the appropriate gauge wire for usage!


    7,500 gal Rectangular, Easytouch 8, Air+water temp sensors, Screenlogic2, IC40, intellibright5g color12v, Intelli pH, SD 70 filter w/Zeolit, Magicstream Laminars, waterfall. Raised Monolithic concrete lined with glass beads.

    In Sunny Monterrey,Mx!

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Zeus I believe your diagram works.

    And I think you understand what I am about to say. If you hook it up that way you need to be sure that the pump's timer and the intermatic timer are coordinated so you don't have the situation occur where the SWCG is working and the pump is not. In theory the flow sensor would shut it down but you should not rely on that.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    Zeus I believe your diagram works.

    And I think you understand what I am about to say. If you hook it up that way you need to be sure that the pump's timer and the intermatic timer are coordinated so you don't have the situation occur where the SWCG is working and the pump is not. In theory the flow sensor would shut it down but you should not rely on that.
    Yeah, that's what I mentioned before. Need to sync the clocks manually for now. Not ideal, but I'm not installing my home brew controller and trying to explain it to the Electrical Inspector lol.

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    Why put a timer on a SWCG

    Why do you even need the timer in this installation? The IC40 won't make chlorine with low or no flow as the flow sensor will turn it off. Couldn't you just program the pump at it's control panel and not worry about the IC40?

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    Re: Why put a timer on a SWCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Diss View Post
    Why do you even need the timer in this installation? The IC40 won't make chlorine with low or no flow as the flow sensor will turn it off. Couldn't you just program the pump at it's control panel and not worry about the IC40?
    Because a SWG can explode if it is on with the pump off. We get a couple every year.
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    Re: Why put a timer on a SWCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Diss View Post
    Why do you even need the timer in this installation? The IC40 won't make chlorine with low or no flow as the flow sensor will turn it off. Couldn't you just program the pump at it's control panel and not worry about the IC40?
    Because the flow sensor is a safety device not intended as a primary control mechanism.
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    Re: Why put a timer on a SWCG

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Because a SWG can explode if it is on with the pump off. We get a couple every year.
    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Because the flow sensor is a safety device not intended as a primary control mechanism.
    Wow. Thank you. I had no idea.
    30,000 Concrete/Fiberglass wall, Hayward Super Pump 1 HP Pentair Intelliflow, Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Pentair IC40 SWG, Hayward H250FDN NG Heater

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    Re: Wiring Question - Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump with SWG and no controller

    Your diagram works. I set my stuff up on a a 15 minute lag time. SWG comes on 15 minutes after the pump does, and goes off 15 minutes before the pump does so I dont have the worry of the SWG being powered without the pump running. The only thing to keep in mind, is if the electricity goes off, you'll need to reset the timer to the correct time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hey_Zeus View Post
    Yeah, that's what I mentioned before. Need to sync the clocks manually for now. Not ideal, but I'm not installing my home brew controller and trying to explain it to the Electrical Inspector lol.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Why put a timer on a SWCG

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Because a SWG can explode if it is on with the pump off. We get a couple every year.
    Explode? Really? Or burn itself out?

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Why put a timer on a SWCG

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey_Zeus View Post
    Explode? Really? Or burn itself out?
    Hydrogen gas is produced inside. If it isn't pushed out by water flow....
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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