SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on check sensor?

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

That's the part where I was saying I would probably put a ball valve on each side of mine with a T and a drain valve coming straight out. That way I can isolate it at the pool side, open the drains to drain as much as possible, then close the valves going up to the panels and blow out the underground lines through the already open drains. They don't have o-rings on those fittings because they are NPT(national pipe thread) fittings; meaning the thread pitch changes along the way causing a friction fit that seals it.


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[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

That's the part where I was saying I would probably put a ball valve on each side of mine with a T and a drain valve coming straight out. That way I can isolate it at the pool side, open the drains to drain as much as possible, then close the valves going up to the panels and blow out the underground lines through the already open drains. They don't have o-rings on those fittings because they are NPT(national pipe thread) fittings; meaning the thread pitch changes along the way causing a friction fit that seals it.


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Yeah, the way i'm going to do it, i have a ball valve on each side.. your saying instead of the Tee coming out of the bottom of the garage wall as in the last post diagram, that you would just do a horizontal tee below the ball valve? (i had assumed coming straight down was better, gravity).. its at those points you put the blower from the vac on the hole to blow out any water? (i would also think that would push water back up to the array though, using the vac at that point, assuming the valve was opened, or, valve closed, blower on, blow from that point back to the pool (my valves are going to be pretty close to the pump as is). Here is what i hope is finally the overall layout (plus the drain tees on the previous post diagram): I hope all this is correct now, with shift angles etc. (still not sure on the shift, as the return line i thought was supposed to run the same shift back and down the garage side, but that would be uphill not downhill).

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

This is how I'm planning to do mine. You would have your regular isolation valves at the pump for all you suction and return. You isolate those. Then you open the drain valves on the T's by the garage. After water stops coming out, close the ball valves that go up to the solar panels. Then you can disconnect whatever piping you have to at the pump to blow through the two lines and out the drains by the garage.

Your panels keep getting slanted the wrong way. They have to be slanted toward the incoming cold water side because that's the lowest point. If you slope them the other way, they will always have water left in them because there is nowhere for it to go. You'll also always have air trapped in the top that keeps water from going through the top section of the panels. The air will go out the return if the panels are sloped with the inlet at the bottom of the slope and the outlet at the top.


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[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

This is how I'm planning to do mine. You would have your regular isolation valves at the pump for all you suction and return. You isolate those. Then you open the drain valves on the T's by the garage. After water stops coming out, close the ball valves that go up to the solar panels. Then you can disconnect whatever piping you have to at the pump to blow through the two lines and out the drains by the garage.

Your panels keep getting slanted the wrong way. They have to be slanted toward the incoming cold water side because that's the lowest point. If you slope them the other way, they will always have water left in them because there is nowhere for it to go. You'll also always have air trapped in the top that keeps water from going through the top section of the panels. The air will go out the return if the panels are sloped with the inlet at the bottom of the slope and the outlet at the top.


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Actually, i didnt have a ball valve on my diagram on the input side after the 3 way valve.. i figured the 3 way valve = ball valve? So your suggesting any ball valves i move closer to the garage wall (on the wall basically), rather than having them say 3 feet away from the pump system as i originally imagined (and under my deck next to the 3 way valve/actuator).. i guess thats a little more strategic.. On the slant, yeah i thought something wasnt quite right.. however.. if you look at the manual diagram i posted a few posts ago.. it shows flow going from the input (cold) side to the right over to the warm side.. which is why i thought i had the slant right.. not sure on this, at least not based on their manual diagram. Looks like you basically have your tee/drains in the same spot i envisioned, cept maybe ill move my toggle valves to above that point

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

You talking about the diagram in post #62? Yep, it's tilted wrong. The ones in post #46 and #52 are both just drawn without a slant. Probably in the fine print somewhere to make sure it's slanted.


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[domct203]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

......... On the slant, yeah i thought something wasnt quite right.. however.. if you look at the manual diagram i posted a few posts ago.. it shows flow going from the input (cold) side to the right over to the warm side.. which is why i thought i had the slant right.. not sure on this, at least not based on their manual diagram. Looks like you basically have your tee/drains in the same spot i envisioned, cept maybe ill move my toggle valves to above that point

Where the warm water exits the array at the top, that needs to be the highest point in the system. The air needs a way out of the solar panels, and that is it.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Where the warm water exits the array at the top, that needs to be the highest point in the system. The air needs a way out of the solar panels, and that is it.

Ok, i think i got it now and that makes perfect sense.. should i have the return pipe that will follow the roofline back to the garage wall follow the panels slant (down and to the left) i assume right (flow/drain direction). Ill update my diagram.. i just need to decide if i want the ball valves close under the deck or on the garage wall, but i guess if i have those drain plugs, the ball valves have to be ahead of them, so that means garage wall.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Updated the diagram.. I think i need to use a 2" Tee at the upper right where the Vac Breaker is located.. top tee screw in or screw in adapter to take the 1/2 Watts adapter. The ball valves in the diagram would be on the wall of the garage (some 18 feet further down the line as noted in the diagram).. I think this is pretty close to final. Tees aiming down for draining/blowing out water will come just below (behind) the ball valves on the garage wall.

In retrospect, i probably could have gotten away with a 1hp hayward pump, rather than the 1.5 I upgraded to, concerns of high electric bill (old being 0.5 but i didnt have all of this plus dual suction/returns before).. with solar, i figure i need to run at least 6 hours per day.. my plan is to run it from 930am until 630pm daily, should cover most use. (not sure what my exact GPH rate will be with the solar panels in action.. i think its around 2650 GPH with 40 feet of head with the 21" pump, would have been more with the 24", so thats about 2.5 turnovers or more at 9 hours i think, plus SWG needing a max of 7 hours, avg of 4). Although the original idea on the 1.5hp was to be ready for a 26+ foot replacement pool down the road.

Still unclear if i need to set the actuator/3 way valve positioning to something "inbetween" like in the diagram or not, to reduce the flow more (and how to tell, ie: look at main pressure gauge see if it goes down?)..

i plan on just placing the 3 way and actuator on my paver i have under the deck, next to my pump, not screwing it to wood on the ground or to a post of the deck.. unsure if this is ideal or not..

i didnt want to add bends.. worst case i could put a 2x4 in the ground there and clamp it down.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Garage layout updated to be more correct

(Updated Tees)

So on draining in the fall this is my understanding from the input received (thanks)..

I would leave the ball valves on the garage open, take the drain caps off at the garage.. let the water trickle out of the outlets till the water is below the outlet level then stop the draining process..

But to make sure all water is out of the panels, hook up the shop vac blower (at the drain ports on each line at the garage location and blow them out, but only if i first disconnect the pvc at the union i put on each line on the sand pump first?).. unsure how this verifies water completely out of the solar panels.. or does the drain cap being off ensure that, the rest is to make sure no water in the pvc under the deck from the pump to the ball valves on the garage side?

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Why is the return and supply both at the top? Again, the supply needs to be at the bottom, and the return needs to be at the top.


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[n240sxguy]

SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

I would bring the return and supply straight up through the T's and have the drain facing out of the T. No cap, just another valve that you can open to drain. No reason to add an extra turn for the water to have to go through if you don't have to. It does not have to drain through the bottom of the T because you can't drain the whole line anyway. If you could actually get below the entire system then I would say yes, use the T with the drain on the bottom. As it stands, run straight up through the T for the panels and have the drain facing out the front of the T. Have the ball valves above that so you can close them and blow the underground lines out without blowing water back up into the panels.

You don't have to make sure all the water is out of the panels with the blower. That's what gravity is going to do. That's why you want them slanted. If you open the valves below them, and no water is coming out, there is no water in them. That's when you would close the ball valves in the lines going to the panels and blow out the underground lines.


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[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Why is the return and supply both at the top? Again, the supply needs to be at the bottom, and the return needs to be at the top.


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Oops yes, disregard the extended blue line (i knew this in my head just drew it wrong), ill fix the picture. (updated the pic)

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

I would bring the return and supply straight up through the T's and have the drain facing out of the T. No cap, just another valve that you can open to drain. No reason to add an extra turn for the water to have to go through if you don't have to. It does not have to drain through the bottom of the T because you can't drain the whole line anyway. If you could actually get below the entire system then I would say yes, use the T with the drain on the bottom. As it stands, run straight up through the T for the panels and have the drain facing out the front of the T. Have the ball valves above that so you can close them and blow the underground lines out without blowing water back up into the panels.

You don't have to make sure all the water is out of the panels with the blower. That's what gravity is going to do. That's why you want them slanted. If you open the valves below them, and no water is coming out, there is no water in them. That's when you would close the ball valves in the lines going to the panels and blow out the underground lines.


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Ah this makes sense.. and i've adjusted the image accordingly, i do like less turns. I think ill need a union near the beginning (by the SWG) possibly, or maybe the fact it unscrews from the SWG (return) is enough to avoid putting a union there.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

What would everyone recommend in terms of the best place to start on the building process here..

Should i put the panels on the roof (without the pvc) first (leaving space for 2 pipes below them)? Then attach the pvc once in place (how hard is it, if they are secured to the roof already).. work backwards from the panels to the pump...

Or..

Should i start working on the pvc, get it to the edge of the roof, then put the panels on and attach/secure.

Not sure, but, should these be unfolded and allowed to lay on the grass for a day or two ahead of time to "flatten out", or maybe it doesnt matter since they will get secured.

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

The instructions I read said to lay them out flat in the sun for an hour before installing. I don't know if it matters which part you do first. I wouldn't cinch down on any straps or anything until you have it all hooked up. That way you can make any minor alignment tweaks without having to undo anything.


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[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

The instructions I read said to lay them out flat in the sun for an hour before installing. I don't know if it matters which part you do first. I wouldn't cinch down on any straps or anything until you have it all hooked up. That way you can make any minor alignment tweaks without having to undo anything.


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Makes sense.. maybe at best put screw in the clamps but no straps so i can adjust slightly.. i might start with the pvc..

on the valve positioning though, i think i read that the best bet is to have the middle valve go to the solar panels, like in my diagram.. however, i'm realizing my situation is the reverse of the diagram and i may have to have one pipe go under the other, along with a sharp turn..

crude drawing added on here, but the gist should be visible.. i'm thinking something like this (i may be at the right diagonal angle such that actually the return pathway can go in front of the SWG avoiding going under anything (can dig down a little for the pipe if needed).. if it really doesnt matter which "port " off of the 3 way valve goes to the solar (input) then maybe i can easily get rid of an angle here.. i also put arrows showing possible pathways for the valve when turned on.. white being the usual one, but i think the red arrow being the more optimal one with less GPH flowing into them (adjusting the stop cam)?

Assuming it actually doesnt matter which port off the 3 way the inbound cold water goes on, then i think this is probably my best/only option (and turn the SWG around so the ports face down to eliminate another 90 bend), red arrow on 3 way being the position i should strive for by adjusting the cam?:

.EDIT/update: i guess the top drawing is the closest match to the way the 3 way should be configured.. middle port being the inbound or outbound only.

 

[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

We're going to have to wait for someone who knows more about these 3 way valves. We use 3 way valves at work a lot, and with them the middle port is always open; you select which side you want it to go to. Same way a lot of the suction setups are as far as splitting the main and skimmer. The pump always has the middle port going to it because it's always open. All I can imagine is that the ball I. The middle has a T cut into it. If you turn on the solar, the straight part goes up to the solar and the T is against the outside of the valve. To bypass the solar the T is turned so it goes to the pump, outside of the valve, and the return to the pool. The ones at work just have a 90 cut in them. You rotate a 1/4 turn to switch sides coming off the middle port. Can anyone confirm the T in these 3 way pool valves? If I'm correct, you can orient it however you want to. I would just go with the typical H pattern with the solar going up and back and the bypass coming off the middle port of the 3 way and going straight to the return section.


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[n240sxguy]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

When are these panels showing up anyway? I'm living vicariously through you right now, and

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[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

When are these panels showing up anyway? I'm living vicariously through you right now, and


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Lol.. most of it is at my house now.. the weather hasnt been great.. the plan was to start fri.. but the weather is about to go to bad yet again.. a few items are still in route and wont get here till fri is why, forget which.. the lowes parts are killing me though.. all the pvc materials really add up in cost.. hoping a bunch goes back, just dont like making 50 trips there

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

We're going to have to wait for someone who knows more about these 3 way valves. We use 3 way valves at work a lot, and with them the middle port is always open; you select which side you want it to go to. Same way a lot of the suction setups are as far as splitting the main and skimmer. The pump always has the middle port going to it because it's always open. All I can imagine is that the ball I. The middle has a T cut into it. If you turn on the solar, the straight part goes up to the solar and the T is against the outside of the valve. To bypass the solar the T is turned so it goes to the pump, outside of the valve, and the return to the pool. The ones at work just have a 90 cut in them. You rotate a 1/4 turn to switch sides coming off the middle port. Can anyone confirm the T in these 3 way pool valves? If I'm correct, you can orient it however you want to. I would just go with the typical H pattern with the solar going up and back and the bypass coming off the middle port of the 3 way and going straight to the return section.


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Yep, it sure seems the best bet is the input and output go to the middle port on the 3 way valve.. so my first drawing is the only real way i can do this efficiently, along with any bends.. looks like ill have some arranging to do to minimize things.

In that case, something like this isnt best (was basically what i was striving for, but not the best idea it seems):