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Thread: Sink to Clear Flocculant / Cloudy Water. Please Help!

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    Sink to Clear Flocculant / Cloudy Water. Please Help!

    Hello, Stats;
    FC-7, CC-0, Ph 7.4 to 7.6 ish, TA 110, CH - 600 (Water from hose is always 500 or higher) CYA - 30 to 40ish. I only use liquid chlorine and acid. UNTIL LAST WEEK ! ! Stupid me, got bored and tried something and now regret it.

    The Story: I read that using a flocculant can sometimes help reduce your CH levels. I always have high CH levels due to SoCal ground water is super high all the time. I also have had super green algae pool water for about 3 weeks or so (cause I have ignored the pool a bit). We had a huge wind storm and tons of leaves and junk dumped into the pool, so I decided to the full deal to get the pool back up to tip top shape. I swept, vacuumed, cleaned all the baskets and dropped tons of chlorine to kill everything off. As expected water was cloudy from all the sweeping and the dirt in pool. AS I know, this would have been fine and cleared up in a day or so. BUT... I thought... Its also about time for me to clean my filter again. SO I THOUGHT, "Hey, why not go buy a flocculant to try out, drop it in, run the filter for a couple days since its time to clean it out anyway maybe get lucky and reduce my CH."

    Here is the problem. I didnt read the bottle. For two weeks I have watched the pool stay ridiculously cloudy. I kept thinking my hayward pool sweeper wasn't doing a good job.. The filter pressure has gone up, and kept thinking I am not running pool enough. I keep dropping chlorine and acid but nothing is working. Finally I realize the directions say "vacuum to waste." I dont even know what that is.

    Sooo... Advice??? I assume Vacuum to waste means sweep while the filter is on backwash? If thats so,, how long do I do this for? How much water do I waste?? How do I know I've even done this enough?? The water is really cloudy and there is not much on the bottom of the pool anymore? I think my pool sweeper pretty much got it all, and now I assume I am recirculating the flocculant particles? Should I stop running the filter for a day and let it settle? Dare I use more flocculant?? Thoughts?? At a total loss.. Help me out Pool Pro's!!

    Thanks!
    I own the TF-100 Test Kit and I love it ! ! ! !
    16,000 Gal Pool. Chlorine. In Ground. Jandy 580 sq ft DE Filter. Lots of Sunlight. Spa In Ground. pentair whisper flo 1.5 Horsepower pump. Pool filter runs about 7 or 8 hours a day on timer. Southern California. Hayward Auto Pool Vac. Pool is 7 years old.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Sink to Clear Flocculant / Cloudy Water. Please Help!

    dg,

    Not all pools can vacuum to waste. If your DE filter has a multiport valve, it needs to have a spot that says "waste".. If you run your pump/vacuum, instead of water going through the filter, it will go out the same line you use to backwash.

    Sorry, I can't help with the Floc issue, as I have never had the need to use it..

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Sink to Clear Flocculant / Cloudy Water. Please Help!

    Wow, gotta say I'm kinda curious where you read that Floc could lower CH??

    You live in an area of hard water, and high evaporation. As water in the pool evaporates it leaves the CH behind so it becomes...well...more concentrated so to speak. Then you add more hard water to keep your level up and well, more CH too! Its a common issue out west. Sorry.

    As for the Floc you added, you've been recirculating it and I imagine its also gummed up your DE filter a bit too? I'd raise my chlorine level with bleach and mix well. Then turn the pump off for a day and let the water settle. Can you vacuum to waste? Not all filters allow that, so checking. Clean your DE filter and when ready to turn on again recharge with fresh DE.

    Well, that's what *I'd* do at least YMMV

    Yip
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Sink to Clear Flocculant / Cloudy Water. Please Help!

    Yep, you've now found out why one should never use floc without the option to vacuum to waste.

    As for calcium and flocs, whatever you read had it backwards - calcium compounds are USED as flocculants not the other way around. Calcium sulfate (gypsum) is one of the oldest forms of flocculants and it's often used to cause dispersed solids in soil-water mixtures (suspended clay particles) to drop out of solution. Adding flocculants designed for pools (potassium alums or polyaluminum chloride) will only drop particulates (suspended solids) and some metals (iron) but generally will not affect calcium unless the calcium is already scaling out of solution and causing cloudiness.

    Now, how to deal with your problem - stop filtering the water and let it all settle. While you wait, you can tear down your DE filter and clean it out as the floc has completely gummed it up. You may need to deep clean the DE grids using something like trisodium phosphate (TSP) if the DE is clumped and sticky. IF AND ONLY IF the cloudiness persists, you may need to add another dose of floc to drop what's there but you should not need it. Once it has all settled to the bottom, you need to rig up a way to vacuum to waste WITHOUT involving the filter. You absolutely CAN NOT USE BACKWASH mode as that will further screw up your filter grids by contaminating them with floc from the inside. If you have to, you might need to bypass the filter altogether and/or remove the grid assembly entirely. A variable speed pump will help you to vacuum and move water slowly. A picture of the equipment pad will help with further advice.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Sink to Clear Flocculant / Cloudy Water. Please Help!

    IMG_3002.jpgIMG_3003.jpgIMG_3004.jpgIMG_3005.jpgIMG_3006.jpgIMG_3007.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    So all of those are the many different angles to show what I am working with. Besides the two auto switches which control spa and pool pump settings, there are an additional six switch valves. I know what two of them do (control the pool sweep and the waterfall). The other 4 I have never figured out.

    Advice on how to figure out what these things do? With the amount of plumbing and switches, there has to be an option to vcaccum to waste without the filter. Advice? What should I do or look for to figure this out?
    I own the TF-100 Test Kit and I love it ! ! ! !
    16,000 Gal Pool. Chlorine. In Ground. Jandy 580 sq ft DE Filter. Lots of Sunlight. Spa In Ground. pentair whisper flo 1.5 Horsepower pump. Pool filter runs about 7 or 8 hours a day on timer. Southern California. Hayward Auto Pool Vac. Pool is 7 years old.

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    Re: Sink to Clear Flocculant / Cloudy Water. Please Help!

    Just read this since I apparently have a push pull valve. Sound OK?

    Push-Pull Valve:

    Push pull valves use a piston with two disks, and have only two settings, Filter or Backwash. In the down position, the water is directed through the tank on Filter mode, returning to the pool after it exits the filter tank. In the up position, the water enters the waste line as it exits the filter. (Pac-Fab push-pull valves have a reverse operation, up for Filter, down for Backwash).

    Since there is no "Drain" setting on a push pull valve, it would seem that there is no way to vacuum to waste on a filter with a slide valve - or is there?

    For DE filters, you can remove the grid assembly and reassemble the filter tank tightly, being sure that the clamp is properly positioned and very tight. Open the air bleeder and set the push pull in the backwash position. Adjust your skimmer and main drain valves for maximum suction through the skimmer, and voila! you can vacuum the pool to waste. If the push pull plunger falls down, into the filter position, use vice-grips or a small wrench to hold it in place.
    I own the TF-100 Test Kit and I love it ! ! ! !
    16,000 Gal Pool. Chlorine. In Ground. Jandy 580 sq ft DE Filter. Lots of Sunlight. Spa In Ground. pentair whisper flo 1.5 Horsepower pump. Pool filter runs about 7 or 8 hours a day on timer. Southern California. Hayward Auto Pool Vac. Pool is 7 years old.

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