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Thread: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

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    New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    1) Our 24' above ground pool is being installed as I type. I have read pool school and many of the threads in this forum. I am familiar with BBB and am convinced it is the way to go. I have not purchased anything yet for maintaining the pool's chemicals. This is what I am contemplating:

    Buy a Zodiac Nature2 system to use initially as my chlorine source. As I become more familiar and comfortable with BBB, I likely will remove the cartridge and use it only when we are away from home on trips.

    Is this a reasonable approach? Am I missing some imporant point or being niave?

    2) Again, I have read, read, read on the forum, but I'm not entirely comfortable about what I do to get started when we first fill the pool. Do I take a reading of the tap water and put it in the pool calculator? Or do I just go ahead and shock with chlorine first thing? If I do this without testing first, how much do I use at first?

    3) When I go to buy my set up supplies, I am planning on getting:
    -One of the test kits recommended on this site.
    -The Zodiac Nature2 system -- unless someone talks me out of it
    -Liquid chlorine for an initial shock (It sounds like to get started, it will be easiest to get something concentrated. I'm willing to pay a bit more for an easy start. I'll economize later.)

    Do I need to have the other two B's on hand for day one? Are there other chemicals I need day one?

    I understand that as I maintain the pool, the calculator will recommend addition of different chemicals. I'd like to have the most likely culprits to be needed right away on hand.

    Thank you in advance for your guidance!
    13,500 GAL half buried Doughboy AG Vinyl, 24' Round, DE filter

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    TizMe's Avatar
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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Dont forget to put stabilizer on your shopping list too !!
    Les
    Don't have a pool right now. Just sharing what I have learned over the years!
    Helpful Links:
    Pool School,Pool Calculator,Cl/CYA Shock Chart,TF Test Kit
    Doing BBB and loving it!

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    I don't think anyone here would recommend the nature2. very expensive and it adds metals to your water which you don't want. I'm not sure exactly what you want it for...the only way I could see using anything like that would be a chlorine tab feeder and then only if you add enough stabilizer (cya) to get to around 30ppm and then watch your cya level and remove that feeder once you get to 50ppm cya (the tabs add cya). it's a complete waste of money to do that though. you just need to buy the stabilizer (cya) and add enough to get around 40-50ppm and save your money on any kind of mineral (nature2) or chlorine tab feeder system. there are some links on why they suck. I'll look for them and edit the post when I find them.
    here is one. there are others. nature2 is included under mineral systems in this post.
    alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.html
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Thanks for the fast reply! I'm convinced. I'll just go pure BBB. I can still us insight on this:

    I'm not entirely comfortable about what I do to get started when we first fill the pool. Do I take a reading of the tap water and put it in the pool calculator? Or do I just go ahead and shock with chlorine first thing? If I do this without testing first, how much do I use at first?
    13,500 GAL half buried Doughboy AG Vinyl, 24' Round, DE filter

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Test your fill water for results.

    Adjust them accordingly by using the pool calc by using Borax and Baking Soda.

    Add CYA to a sock and get it in the pool ASAP.

    As long as your CC's are below .5 there is no reason to shock. Bring your FC up to 2-3 ppm until your CYA disolves.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Thank you so much for the gettting started overview!

    I know the pool calculator will tell all, but what kind of volume do I need to stock up on for baking soda and borax? I can't imagine a 1 lb box of baking soda goes very far.

    Is solid CYA in a sock preferred over liquid CYA?
    13,500 GAL half buried Doughboy AG Vinyl, 24' Round, DE filter

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    Guest

    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Read my post in this thread for more reasons why you don't want the nature2!
    chlorine-leval-in-a-pool-with-nature-2-and-a-borates-t14128.html

    (gotta love Australia!)

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    I love your binary tagline!

    Very interesting posts re the Nature2. Thank you for saving me!

    Any recommendations on how much baking soda and borax to stock up on to get started? Do I need to clear the shelf of 1 lb baking soda boxes?
    13,500 GAL half buried Doughboy AG Vinyl, 24' Round, DE filter

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    the problem is you won't be able to get one of the test kits recommended on this site like your plan states. it's highly unlikely leslie's has it in stock (though that's great if they do). you should go ahead and order one from www.tftestkits.net imho as you will get a much better value. if you insist, you could buy the rebranded k-2005 which most leslie's have and order the fas-dpd test separately, but you'll be paying a lot more money for less items (namely the size {volume} of the reagents).
    http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/ ... 00/I/81330
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    TM,

    I would suggest you have on hand 8-10 jugs of clorox. That'll initially keep your pool sanitized while you're getting other things up to speed. The only other thing that you will absolutely for sure need is stabilizer (CYA). Purchase enough of that to bring your pool up to about 40ppm and be prepared to put it in right away after your pool is filled. That's all I'd buy.

    You are getting good advice on getting a kit. With the kit you can post your fill water tests now and then we can help you get your pool balanced.

    Much like a roadmap, we can't tell you how to get to where you want to go (balanced water) unless we know where you are (current tests).
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Thanks.

    If I cannot get a kit locally, will pool store test results due until my ordered kit arrives?

    I want the pool balanced properly, but at what point while I'm working on that is it safe to allow swimming?
    13,500 GAL half buried Doughboy AG Vinyl, 24' Round, DE filter

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    TizMe's Avatar
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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    If your just starting your pool you can assume your CYA is zero (0) so I would go to the pool calculator and calculate how much you need. You have the same type of pool we do and to start it called for 63oz by weight and I cut it in half and I got 30ppm which is on the lower side of what you need. 30-50ppm is recommended. I also keep my chlorine on the high side of the recommended level.

    I got a CHEAP scale at Wal Mart to measure my chemicals with. Put the CYA in a stocking , throw it in the skimmer and let it deslove. Dont back hyour filter for a week (you shoulnt need to being a new pool) and test for it in a week or so because it can take that long to get into the pool.

    In the mean time as soon as you can run your pump I would dump in a couple of jugs of bleach to get some chlorine in the pool then once you get your CYA adjust the bleach accordingly. We get our bleach at Wal Mart for $1.58 for a 96 oz jug. Right now I am using a small jug (96oz) a night to chlorinate our pool. A lot less than PS stuff !!

    Order a test kit as soon as possible. It will be your best investment for your pool !

    Good Luck !! Enjoy the pool !!
    Les
    Don't have a pool right now. Just sharing what I have learned over the years!
    Helpful Links:
    Pool School,Pool Calculator,Cl/CYA Shock Chart,TF Test Kit
    Doing BBB and loving it!

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    As long as the pH is okay and there is a reasonable amount of chlorine, it would be okay to take the initial plunge. The other parameters matter for the longer term health of the pool but don't really factor into whether it's safe to swim.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    TizMe,

    Thanks for the insight!

    I was curious about your gallons figure.

    Google taught me that the formula for a round pool is: diameter in ft * diameter in ft * water depth in ft * 5.9

    We have a 24' round pool that is 52" high. But the pool dealer said the water depth is 48".

    Doing the calculations for 48" water depth, I got 13,593 gallons.
    Doing the calculations for 52" water depth, I got 14,613 gallons. Did you just round up to 15,000 gallons?
    13,500 GAL half buried Doughboy AG Vinyl, 24' Round, DE filter

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    TizMe's Avatar
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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    At the bottom of the calculator I put in 24' wide at a depth of 4.5 feet picked round for pool and it calculated it to 15,200 Gal.

    Thats where I got my figure from. If I am wrong I hope someone corrects me

    But (in my old age and absent mindness) I think I had 13000+ Gal at one time and someone corrected me on that .. SO .. well see what others say who are following your posting
    Les
    Don't have a pool right now. Just sharing what I have learned over the years!
    Helpful Links:
    Pool School,Pool Calculator,Cl/CYA Shock Chart,TF Test Kit
    Doing BBB and loving it!

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Usually a 52" AG pool has a 4' water depth, which for 12' round works out to 13,600.

    But if your number is letting you get your chems spot-on, that's the number to use. If you keep overshooting or undershooting then you should change your gallons estimate so the chems work out right.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    Usually a 52" AG pool has a 4' water depth, which for 12' round works out to 13,600.


    --paulr

    Exactly, but I would just call it 14k gallons and call it a day!
    Remember, it's a pool, not a chemistry experiment!

    Additional discussion of rounding pool volume estimates has been moved to Capacity, more or less. JasonLion

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Wow, I didn't mean to stir up controversy. I was just curious if my gallons calculating approach was flawed. Onto other matters....

    My first results are in:
    AG vinyl round 24' diameter, 52" high (48" water depth!)
    FC .5
    TC 1
    CC .5
    pH 7.7
    TA 100
    CH 175
    CYA assumed 0 since this is a fresh fill

    I used the calculator....

    1) I was surprised that I only need to add 73 oz of 6% bleach. I imagined it would take several jugs to get started. Did I mess something up?

    2) Since I have a vinyl liner and my CH is in range, though not the preferred 260, do I need to add calcium chloride as the calculator states?

    4) For the CYA, from what I understand from my forum roamings, I should start with about half the recommended amount in a stocking and retest after several days.

    3) Otherwise, it looks like I need to add muriatic acid .

    Any advice is appreciated.
    13,500 GAL half buried Doughboy AG Vinyl, 24' Round, DE filter

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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Quote Originally Posted by tmpfeifer
    Wow, I didn't mean to stir up controversy. I was just curious if my gallons calculating approach was flawed. Onto other matters....

    My first results are in:
    AG vinyl round 24' diameter, 52" high (48" water depth!)
    FC .5
    TC 1
    CC .5
    pH 7.7
    TA 100
    CH 175
    CYA assumed 0 since this is a fresh fill

    I used the calculator....

    1) I was surprised that I only need to add 73 oz of 6% bleach. I imagined it would take several jugs to get started. Did I mess something up?
    that would bring your FC up to about 3.5 so with no CYA it is a good starting point. I would not worry about the .5 ppm CC unless it goes up.
    2) Since I have a vinyl liner and my CH is in range, though not the preferred 260, do I need to add calcium chloride as the calculator states?
    CH is fine. You don't want it to go over about 300 if possible so test it about once every month to monitor it. Once you are sure how fast it changes, if at all, you can just test it a few times a year.
    4) For the CYA, from what I understand from my forum roamings, I should start with about half the recommended amount in a stocking and retest after several days.
    Why? You will just make it into a long, drawn out process and complicate it!
    Put in the full amount for 40 ppm. Don't even bother testing it for a week.If your pool volume is off a bit you will still end up in the 30-50 range but I can tell you from experience that a 24' round pool with 4' of water does just fine with the chemical dosing if you call it 14k gal! If when you test it a week later you can add a bit more if it is low. If it is high it should still be below 50 ppm!

    3) Otherwise, it looks like I need to add muriatic acid .
    Add a quart, that should lower the TA by about 10 and the pH to around 7.0 to 7.2 I would not worry too much about aeration, the ph will rise on it's own over time. If you want to play it safe you cann add a pint, wait and test and if you pH has not dropped below about 7.4 add the other pint.
    Any advice is appreciated.
    You are doing just fine! Soon you will wonder what seemed confusing or hard about this! You really seem to have things under control!

  20. Back To Top    #20
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New above ground owner making chemical system decision

    Quote Originally Posted by tmpfeifer
    Thanks.

    If I cannot get a kit locally, will pool store test results due until my ordered kit arrives?

    I want the pool balanced properly, but at what point while I'm working on that is it safe to allow swimming?
    The TF100 ships rather quickly, on average the kits are received in like 2 days from recent reports.

    I would have your Tap water tested and share the results with us here. The pool stores usually do it for free (don't buy any of their products, confirm their suggestions here first.)

    Then we'll tell you if you need to stock up on Borax or Baking Soda or muratic acid, etc.

    For now you know you'll need bleach and Cyanuric acid. CYA you can buy from the pool store if you like.

    How soon you swim really depends on your test results. You many not need any adjusting at all, just a little chlorine. Every pool is unique and it's too soon to tell.

    Enjoy your pool!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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