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Thread: TA before adding borates ?

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    TA before adding borates ?

    I read the sticky about adding borates about 4-5 times, printed it out and I'm ready to add them. However, I read in the thread that the TA should be around 70-90 and mine is a little higher. I guess I just want to double check that I need to adjust the numbers some before I start adding borates.

    Here's what I've got this morning:

    FC- 4
    CC- 0
    pH- 7.4
    TA- 110
    CYA- 40

    From what I understand about the sticky thread, I should lower the TA to say 80ish with a bit of acid first then aerate the pH back up to the 7.4-7.6 range before adding the borates.
    Thoughts?
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    from what I understand, you won't get the benefits of the ph buffering, or at least, not as much.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    Quote Originally Posted by reebok
    from what I understand, you won't get the benefits of the ph buffering, or at least, not as much.
    You mean if I don't adjust the TA first?
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    yes
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    It will be more difficult to lower TA afterwards, so much better to do it first. It can be done in the other order, it is just slower and more work.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    cool. thanks.

    Guess I'll go work on that TA now. lol
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    This thread might help you in lowering the TA!
    how-to-lower-ta-t5341.html

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    Thanks Waterbear. I found that right after I posted. I put in a dose of muriatic acid this morning to bring down ph and turned the eye on the returns straight up to break the water. We've been in splashing around today too. Going to test again after a few hours.
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    if you're as disappointed as I was with the splashing results, you can look into a homemade aerator.
    my-aerator-t7799.html
    i-don-t-have-eyeballs-on-my-returns-t12154.html
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    Thanks for the links.

    After aerating & splashing around in there today, we got the TA down to 100 and the pH back up to 7.4 when I checked it a few minutes ago.
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    ok, so I have my TA down to 80, the ph is 7.2 so waiting on that to come back up. I just walked out on the deck for something and noticed that the water looks a tiny bit cloudy. What's up with that?

    I tested and got these numbers, the FC was a bit low, I think.

    FC 2.5
    CC 0
    pH 7.2
    TA 80
    CYA 35
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    I'm not an expert but I did convert my pool to a borate pool last month without much problem. If you are using Borax which is Sodium Tetraborate (not Boric acid) then your pH will go up quite a bit any ways once you add it. In which case, starting at a pH of 7.2 should be fine. I am not sure if you use Boric acid (or another pH neutral additive such as Proteam's Supreme Plus) then perhaps some else can suggest what to do.

    For me, I added the 20 Mule Team (Borax) and the necessary acid and got the pH just where it should be (around 7.6) without much difficulty.
    20,000 in-ground pebble-coat pool with 60sf Jandy DE filter, Pentair Variable-Flow pump, Goldline Aquarite SWG, Dolphin Premiere robot, passive solar heating.

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    Yep, planning on using Borax & MA to add borates. Right now I'm more concerned about the water being slightly cloudy, not really sparkly like it was. I've been turning the return jet straight up to aerate during the day, could it be that the slight cloudiness is from not having good filtration, would turning the return up for a few hours, mess up the 'flow' of things to keep it from filtering correct. I did notice I had more bugs floating in the water instead of the skimmer.
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    I hesitate to suggest what to do about the cloudiness since am not sure what it looks like. My experience is that changing the position of your jet returns can stir up some particulates that were not being picked up by your automatic cleaner. In which case, the filter should eventually filter that out. I am assuming it is not DE or algae or pollen dust you are looking at.

    Perhaps one of the experts can chime in on this.
    20,000 in-ground pebble-coat pool with 60sf Jandy DE filter, Pentair Variable-Flow pump, Goldline Aquarite SWG, Dolphin Premiere robot, passive solar heating.

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    Oops. I see you have a sand filter. So ruling out DE can't be the problem. Sorry.
    20,000 in-ground pebble-coat pool with 60sf Jandy DE filter, Pentair Variable-Flow pump, Goldline Aquarite SWG, Dolphin Premiere robot, passive solar heating.

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    Well I went ahead and added the borax & MA. It of course made the water a milky color and there are some 'balls' of borax on the pool floor, how long till that dissolves? I'm going to brush again later to see if I can break them up.

    How long before swimming after adding the borax & MA?
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    Give it at least a couple of hours and then test the PH. If the PH is between 7.2 and 7.8 you can swim. If the PH is below 7.2 you probably don't want to swim, but you don't need to do anything. Borax will continue dissolving for a while and that should bring the PH back up.

    Brushing is a great idea, especially if you can actually see undissolved borax.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: TA before adding borates ?

    I used my leaf net to get the clumps out and smashed them up with my fingers. It's only been an hour+ but I went ahead and checked the pH & its 7.8 so I'll check it again after dinner and it it doesn't go any higher, I'll let the kiddo swim.
    Thanks.
    Jennifer
    24 ft. AG-approx 13,500 gal
    2 HP sand filter-2 speed
    4ft x 20ft Sunheater Solar Panels

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