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Thread: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

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    Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    The motor to my main pump started whining this year as I was attempting to open up the pool. It's an old AO Smith 1hp motor on a leaking sta-rite pump. I took it apart planning to replace the bearings but given the corrosion I found along with obvious signs this motor has been repaired before by a former owner, I've opted to replace the motor and pump.

    I believe I may have over researched this purchase and confused myself.

    I'm dealing with a roughly 24000 gal gunite pool built in the 60's, two skimmers, two eyeball jets for returns. Intake and returns are 2".

    Equipment is a Hayward heat pump, sand filter and a polaris pool sweeper with it's own booster pump.

    The heat pump requires a minimum 30gpm or it will shut off due to low flow and can handle a maximum of 75gpm.

    So I think my goal is to find a pump/motor combo that can run in that range.

    I don't have any automation other than a couple of dial timers so I'm not sure whether a variable speed or dual speed is worth the extra money or if another single speed would fill my needs?

    For future expansion, I'd like to add a Pentair Intellitouch with a salt generating system. But that will most likely be next season after replacing the pool light and now the main motor/pump.

    So which Pentair pump is my best choice?
    24,000 gal in ground, Gunite, Sand filter, Hayward 140,000 btu heat pump, Pentair Superflow VS, Polaris pool sweep, TF-100 test kit w/speed stir

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    If you plan to add Pentair automation (an EasyTouch system is a better choice for most pools than the more expensive IntelliTouch unless you have some obvious need for the expanded programming capabilities of the IntelliTouch), then you should get an IntelliFlo variable speed pump. Pentair sells other versions of VSPs for swap-out replacement jobs, but they are stand-alone and will not communicate to automation (easily). So if automation is a definite objective in the future, the INtelliFlo is what you need to go with now. The IntelliFlo is also a 3HP pump, so you'll have more than enough flow to fit your needs.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    TC,

    What Matt said is right on target!!!

    The EasyTouch, or IntelliTouch, are designed to control the 3 HP Intelliflo variable speed pump via a serial cable. In your situation it would be perfect. When using the SWCG, the EasyTouch would run the pump at a very slow speed to generate chlorine, when you turned on the heater, it would automatically ramp the speed up so that the heater has the flow it needs.

    Here is a pretty good site that shows the various EasyTouch options.. http://www.sunplay.com/pentair-easyt...ontrol-systems

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    Thanks for the advice and the link! After quite a bit of time on youtube looking at the two pumps, I opted for the superflow variable speed. I hope to have it in time to install it before the weekend.
    24,000 gal in ground, Gunite, Sand filter, Hayward 140,000 btu heat pump, Pentair Superflow VS, Polaris pool sweep, TF-100 test kit w/speed stir

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    TC,

    Just wanted to make sure you understand that the EasyTouch Automation system can not control the Superflo as a true VS pump...

    The Intelliflo and SuperFlo are two very different pumps.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    A SuperFlo will do the job too. You can program it on the self contained panel or you can use relays to choose speeds based on current requirements.


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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    BTW, don't forget the rebates from Pentair and possibly from your electric utility too.


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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
    A SuperFlo will do the job too. You can program it on the self contained panel or you can use relays to choose speeds based on current requirements.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
    BTW, don't forget the rebates from Pentair and possibly from your electric utility too.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Sammy,

    All true BUT if the OP does go with an EasyTouch automation panel the SuperFlo is the wrong pump to choose now because it is not designed to work with the ET digital serial communication bus. Only the IntelliFlo will work directly with an EasyTouch panel.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
    A SuperFlo will do the job too. You can program it on the self contained panel or you can use relays to choose speeds based on current requirements.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Sammy,

    What you say is "technically" true in the sense that you can turn a preset speed on/off. To do this you have to have four available relays and a special cable...

    But with the Intelliflo you have the ability to select any speed you want without using any relays.

    The SuperFlo can be made to sort of work, in a clunky fashion, but the Intelliflo is "designed" to work with the EasyTouch. Basically, the right tool for the right job...

    Thanks,

    Jim R
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    That is also true but can cost considerably more to implement if you don't have the right PCB to begin with. I understand that not everyone here has home automation but for me, since I already had that, it was considerably cheaper to incorporated the SuperFlo into my home automation controller for choosing pump speeds. I realize that it is only 4 speeds but right now I'm only using 3 of them anyhow and can't see a need for a fourth speed or true variable speed either actually. Since I really don't see a need for more than 4 pre-set speeds and once those are optimized I don't think it is clunky.

    Now the OP has no automation for his pool as stated. There's a few things to consider. He is going to have automation and maybe now is the time to do that. Is the OP considering home automation? Maybe that would be all is needed but controlling the heat pump with it is a little tricky to do. The IntelliTouch will control the IntelliFlo without a doubt but can also control the SuperFlo through relays but I don't know if it has the logic to switch speeds based on other conditions. There's a lot to consider. The IntelliTouch is clearly the easiest to use but maybe not the cheapest way to go.

    Rather than spend nearly $1000 on a new PCB for my Jandy Aqualink RS with the iAqualink I chose to incorporate it into my Vera for about $350 and break free from having to run my pool through their servers. It was another $240 though to incorporate my SuperFlo into that but I'm still ahead dollars. This is an option for the OP too but, like I say, the trickiest part is dealing with the heater control if you don't have a name-brand controller but that could be done with a lower level controller from eBay too. It is all what the OP wants and what they feel comfortable setting up.

    I'm just giving the options and I think my post was done almost exactly the same time that yours was and it wasn't meant to be oppositional it just looked that way by the way they came out and the order they posted.

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    With the app on my phone I can not only control the pool but a buch of other things. For example here Day Party starts the pool pump at full speed, shear descent and back patio fans. Night party is that, pool and spa color lights, the Fiber Optics under the descents and around the spa plus everything in Backyard Lights which is all the lights in the backyard. Zen is the pump only at 2200 RPM for a soft trickle cascading off the spa into the pool and the patio fans only.

    All this in the same app that comtrols the rest of the house and works at home without a connection to the internet or anywhere in the world with ibternet through Vera's servers.


  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    I can also select pump speed in the devices screen of the app BTW.


  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    Just by the matching pentair parts. Don't waste your time with anything else. Yes pentair equipment is expensive. The screen logic automation is rockin!! I have the whole setup. Ez8 intelliflo, swg, intellibright led lights, master temp 400, connected to the network interface. I can operate the pool, spa, lights, yard lights. Everything. All you need is an internet connection and you can turn it on from anywhere. I'd drop the coin again in a heartbeat.



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    Re: Need advice on single, dual or variable speed motor and pump replacement

    Great discussion!

    I should have included that I'm staring right down the barrel of a kitchen remodel this Summer. The pump replacement wasn't planned, the darn thing just went out so it's going to cut into the budget for the kitchen a bit. I "saved" around $300.00 by going with this pump vs the intelliflo. I know that "savings" is likely going to cost me in the future if I need to upgrade to the intelliflo when I buy the panel and SWC. All I can hope is my wife doesn't have some other big, expensive project for me whenever that happens and I can more easily take my lumps when shelling out $900.00 for the intelliflo at that time.

    I'm coming from a very primitive pool set up. All I'm running is the filter, heat pump, one light and a polaris on a booster. No fancy lights, jets or spas. So to me, any variable speed is a big step up. I will now have the ability to set the pump on different speeds as well as determine how long in duration it will run at those speeds. That's all I really need at this point.
    24,000 gal in ground, Gunite, Sand filter, Hayward 140,000 btu heat pump, Pentair Superflow VS, Polaris pool sweep, TF-100 test kit w/speed stir

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