Raypak is the favorite for gas heaters here on TFP, not necessarily heat pumps. My Hayward heat pump works great, we are very happy with it and the built in timer.
Yes, plastic will definitely rust less than metal. :-D Couldn't resist.
LOL
True, but it can also fade, warp, and crack after years of exposure to the heat and sun.
It takes 1 btu to heat 1 lb of water 1 degree.
200 gal of water weighs 1668 lbs
140k btu * 80% efficiency = 112k btu will heat a little over 7 degrees per hour
hmm I should have run the calculation. That's definitely a little disappointing. Still, I don't know if propane is a realistic answer for us due to the high costs.
Are you sure you did your math right? I think you missed a 0. Assuming I understand the calculation, 1668 lbs should take 1668 BTUs to heat 1 degree in 1 hour. 1668 / 112000 ~= .01489 hours to raise 1 degree. * 20 degrees ~= .2979 hours (30 minutes). If I use 11200 (11.2k) instead then I get the 7 degrees in an hour you got.
With heat pumps you will generate a considerable amount of condensation, over a gallon of water per hour, a plastic/resin enclosure is a plus in the design.
COP is a significant number and 0.5 is a considerable difference. You need to compare the COP charts they publish side by side to make sure you are comparing the same numbers. The COP number is the efficiency number for the heat pump. Heat pumps put more BTU into the pool water than they consume in electricity. In the case of the Hayward unit they are claiming their heat pump put 6 time the amount of btu's into the water than it will consume in electric energy. So a 22kW electric water heater will use as much electricity as your 140kW heat pump.
They claim to use the same air temp / water temp / humidity measurements. Per their respective documentation found
here for Raypak and
here for Hayward:
| Model | 80f air 80f h20 80% | 80f air 80f h20 63% | 50f air 80f h20 63% |
| Hayward hp21404t | 6.0 | 5.8 | 4.4 |
| Raypak 8350ti | 5.5 | 5.2 | not given |
According to these #s, not only does the Hayward have a larger COP to start with, it drops less under the same conditions.
Aesthetic appearance is in the eye of the beholder. If one looks so bad that you dont want it near you than that can mean more than other factors. In reality a heat pump is nothing more than a central A/C unit...
Very true. Appearance isn't that important. My unit will be clearly visible from the pool, but I can just put a small fence or some plants around to hide it. The only spot I see appearance being "functional" is if I want to sell the unit later on CL or something. I'd probably get more $ if it looks almost new with a modern design vs. rusted out with a design from 20 years ago. Also, it is a noticeable differentiating factor between these 2 units. However, power and reliability are far more important to me.
Interface isn't super critical... There is nothing fancy or special about pool heater interfaces.
I figured as much. The only thing I don't like is that I can't even find a single picture with the interface for the Raypak unit. Almost all the pictures on every site & Google images are from the same angle - the side with the water pipes. Just seems strange to not even bother to show any other angles, especially the one the user interacts with. My main concern is simply that it _has_ an interface on the unit since I have no central pool control system in place.
I doubt you would have reliability issues with either brand but look into the fine print of the warranty as they might require "licensed" installation for the full warranty.
That's good to hear. Surprisingly, Hayward doesn't seem to require a licensed installer. As long as the installation is done according to their instructions / specifications they don't care who did it. They do care who repairs it though. I've also read that it can be really difficult to get Hayward to follow through on their warranty due to not having their technicians in the area. However, I hope that wouldn't be a problem in FL where so many people have pools...
Raypak on the other hand requires a "qualified" installer and reduces and/or doesn't honor their warranty if the product is purchased online (something that should be illegal IMO). Now that i looked into this, I think this may be the single biggest deciding factor for me.
...I don't think any pool equipment is particularly good looking. If aesthetics are really a concern for you, I believe raypac offers the same model with a more sleek steel exterior as an upgrade.
Agreed. The steel exterior one is their super quiet model I believe, which is also $500 - $1000 more for the same BTUs.
Regarding performance, we are very happy with the unit. We started swimming in March with outside temps between 50 and 60 during the day and in the 40s at night. The heater took the pool from a start temp of 62 to 80 degrees within 72 hours. With average temps of 55 and overcast skies, we gained 1 degree every 45 minutes during the day. At night, with the autocover closed, we might lose 1-2 degrees total when temps dropped to the 40s.
On warmer days, the heat pump can raise the temp more quickly, but I think generally the rate is 1-3 degrees an hour for the pool. We do not have a spa, so I am not sure how quickly it could heat one. I think it is ideal for heating a pool for reasonable energy costs... we found we will be able to add at least two months to the season given how the heater is in fact performing.
Good to hear! I love hearing about first hand experience and it sounds like yours was great
Also, regarding condensation, we barely have any, and certainly not a gallon per hour...
1 gallon per hour sounded like an awful lot. I'm assuming humidity could affect this though. I do live in an area with pretty high humidity. Not sure if you do?
FWIW, when we were looking at heater options, almost everyone I spoke with advised against a heat pump, saying they do not extend the swim season and do not heat the pool quickly or sufficiently. That has not been our experience...
It sounds like they were on-demand users that wanted to fire it up Friday night and have a cold pool become warm for an event on Saturday, and you're more of a maintenance user that wants it a certain temperature all year. Different requirements. Also, being in the north I'm a little surprised the heat pump works as well as you stated. Out of curiosity, why did you get the model with the cooler? Living in VA I doubt you use that feature much...
