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Thread: Silly Foam cove question.

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    pool4me's Avatar
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    Silly Foam cove question.

    Hopefully this isn't too silly a question. This is the first pool that I will be using the foam cove in. (I'm going to add this to my sig right after I post this... keep forgetting....)

    15x33 x 52" A/G

    I notice that in the original installation instructions, it calls for an appx 6-8" earth cove. The foam cove just arrived today and measures appx 3" high (vertical measurement from where it would contact the bottom of the pool floor). The "angle" of the cove measures appx 4.5" and it would extend out from the wall appx 4.5".

    I see online this photo and it confuses me a bit:

    http://www.backyardcitypools.com/images ... lation.jpg

    The instructions for the pool cove just show the cove against the wall and against the pool bottom.

    Since I have a beaded liner, wouldn't a variation possibly cause me some problems with the liner not reaching the bead receiver if the cove is "at a different angle or position" ??

    Or . . . do I do what's pictured in the link above and I'm just confused at the cove instructions? In the pic, it looks like they did sand cove and then the foam cove on top of it.

    I'm just curious. I realize that liners do stretch but I'm just wondering how others have done theirs.
    33'x15' x 52" Aqualeader
    Gallons ? - (I use appx 13,500 to calculate "stuff")
    33 x 15 x 4.3 x 5.9 = 12,558. or . . The Pool Calculator = 14,400
    Hayward S-166T 100Lb Sand Filter - Hayward Power-Flo LX 1HP Pump
    Intex S.W.G.

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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    I'm a total beginner and had the same exact questions as yours. Wow. I've noticed all those discrepancies as well. Beaded liner height... foam cove location... sand height and foam height difference...

    I ended up calling the place I purchased my pool from and they told me (YMMV) to place the foam cove directly on the ground, then the 1.5 inches of sand on top of it. They were very specific with 1.5 inches with the beaded liner I had. I think the cove actually has a groove in the back/bottom so it can fit onto the pool rings comfortably.

    My beaded liner didn't really fit that snugly. It didn't over-stretch or anything like I was expecting. It just "fit". Hmmm. I did use a shop vac in the skimmer. This particular place sold 48" , 52" and 54" hight beaded liners. Mine was a 54" height, so I followed their instructions carefully. I probably could have installed a 52" with a little more stretch. Not sure how much they stretch, really. I'm happy with the results.

    Good luck.
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

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    pool4me's Avatar
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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    Wow.

    Thanks for the tips. From what I see in the cover instructions, I thought it looked like the cove was on top of the sand (and in my case the Armor Shield on top of the sand).

    I was going to unbox my liner to see how much "distance" I have between the seam (which looks like it should be about "mid-cove" and the bead receiver. I just don't want it too loose. Seems pretty weird that this is really the only area in the instructions that is kind of un-clear.

    My cove, like yours, does have the notch to go around the bottom track of the pool which would indicate to me that the foam cove obviously is designed to be on the ground (at least within a certain distance close to the bottom track) - otherwise, I'm guessing they would not notch out the cove.

    Hey . . . better to ask questions than to find out later I did it wrong.
    33'x15' x 52" Aqualeader
    Gallons ? - (I use appx 13,500 to calculate "stuff")
    33 x 15 x 4.3 x 5.9 = 12,558. or . . The Pool Calculator = 14,400
    Hayward S-166T 100Lb Sand Filter - Hayward Power-Flo LX 1HP Pump
    Intex S.W.G.

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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    Again, I'm no expert. Far from it! I think the cove is to stop the sand from escaping underneath and out the bottom pool ring edge. If it were placed up high with sand underneath, then it would defeat that purpose.

    I, too, had a 'happy bottom' placed on top of the sand when it was tamped.

    I also put on a foam wall. Just thought I'd throw that in there. lol



    I think I was told the sand coves were higher to account for it settling or something. Hard to believe, but I think that what I remember. Hmmm... It's very peculiar this pool building stuff.

    Dennis, here, helped me a bit when I asked questions. He is a pool installer and pointed me in the right direction. Very helpful.


    **Edit.. LMAO! I wanted to measure my liner too, when I had this problem. I figured I would get down to the bottom of things if I could just get the measurement to the bottom of the liner/pool bottom. Then I didn't know really how much the liner would stretch, etc..
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

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    pool4me's Avatar
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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    Thanks for the follow-up.. I'm pretty sure that the cove is there so the liner doesn't force it's way out under the pool wall. In my manual, It suggests an earth cove (not sand). I could have sworn that years ago we did not use sand for the cove which I have heard of people using. I thought sand could possibly just wash out after time.

    I love the idea of the foam cove. I agree with you. To put it on top of sand like in that pic seems that it would negate what the cove is supposted to do (kind of). I'm also using the wall foam.

    I am pretty amazed that it does not seem to be clearly described in the instructions. I've just downloaded a few other mfg's instructions to see if any are a bit more detailed.
    33'x15' x 52" Aqualeader
    Gallons ? - (I use appx 13,500 to calculate "stuff")
    33 x 15 x 4.3 x 5.9 = 12,558. or . . The Pool Calculator = 14,400
    Hayward S-166T 100Lb Sand Filter - Hayward Power-Flo LX 1HP Pump
    Intex S.W.G.

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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    Ok, So now I am totally confused. I am setting up my 33' round pool and it came with the "foam cove".....the directions for the pool assembly say to use either dirt to form a "cove" or "foam cove"...however the dirt coves they show in the illustrations go higher on the pool wall and further into the pool floor than what the foam cove would. SO my question is..if you are using "foam cove" around the bottom of your pool, do you need any more earth or sand cove at all???

    Dan
    33' x 52" Swim and Play Inc. PARAGON AGP. Hayward H200 Heater. Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump. Sta-Rite Cristal Flo T-210WF Sand Filter. Stenner 45M5 chlorine pump

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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    Dan,

    That's actually a pretty logical question. And you are correct. I was confused about the same thing. The earth cove suggested by the pool maker is quite a bit larger than the foam cove is. Why the makers of the foam cove don't just make it bigger, I don't know...

    In my case, the foam cove is a bit smaller "of a wedge" than what the pool manufacturer suggests the earth cove should be.

    In my particular case, I did install the armor shield on top of my sand inside the pool and that extended (obviously all the way to the pool wall / track), The foam cove (as intructed) was installed at ground level (not on a built up cove or dirt etc) around the bottom pool rails.

    However, (even though liners stretch an amazing amount in most cases), I can tell you that in my case, since the foam cove is appx 1.5-2" shorter than the suggested height of the earth cove, that the liner stretch had me a bit worried. The sidewalls were fine (I have an oval pool) but the corners were very tight as the water filled. Everything came out fine. It worried me a little since it's been about 20 years since I've installed / had a pool and you just forget these little details.

    When I replace the liner next time. I WILL be building up a small 2" or so, ridge around the inside of the pool appx 6" out from the pool wall and appx 2" high for the foam to sit on.

    My liner is clearly tighter in the corners but on the side portions you can feel it still has a bit of give even though it's very tight like a drum. (Which is how I would imagine it should be).

    You should be fine with just the foam cove since the liners stretch quite a bit but an nice little "earth ridge" would'nt hurt (at least in my installation).

    I've seen people build up a 4-6" ridge around the edge of their pools to compensate for small children and to give them a place to walk around the edge of the pool bottom so I think it's not a bad idea. Plus, given the dimentions of my pool, there is much more room for some "give" and stretch on the floor than on the wall portions. I have a beaded liner and I'm worried in those tight areas if at some point as the liner get's older, the effects of chemicals "harden it" etc that, the liner may begin to separate from the bead like I've seen in some pools if it's indeed too tight..

    Overall, my initial feeling is that my install went fine. I'm sure it will be fine and it looks great. Still I can't help but wonder why the foam cove is made much smaller. You figure that:

    The pool maker knows how much the liner will stretch (give or take) and the suggestions for the earth cove (in my mind) are designed to allow the proper amount of stretch. A liner will obviously stretch more but why should it be made to do so if it's not needed?

    The difference of 2" less in foam cove height alone (to me) can mean a big differrence in the amount of extra stretch the liner has to do. Not to mention the extra distance of an earth cove that allows the liner to "slowly ramp up" toward the wall. With the foam, you have a sharper angle.

    It also feels a bit more squishly than I thought it would. I'm hoping one of the nieces don't "dig a toenail" into it. They feel almost like rubber and I do have to admit that the cove does feel a bit more squishy when you step near / on it. (WHich I imagine is not a fantastic idea . . . )

    Hope that helps a little.
    33'x15' x 52" Aqualeader
    Gallons ? - (I use appx 13,500 to calculate "stuff")
    33 x 15 x 4.3 x 5.9 = 12,558. or . . The Pool Calculator = 14,400
    Hayward S-166T 100Lb Sand Filter - Hayward Power-Flo LX 1HP Pump
    Intex S.W.G.

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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    I hear ya. I installed my foam cove today with spray adhesive right at ground level sitting on the lower wall rails. It was easy and worked just fine.

    I re-read my instructions for this section and my pool manual (Swim and Play Inc, Paragon 33 foot round pool) ONLY states to use the larger earth mound cover for j-hook or bead liners. The overlap install simply says to use foam cove and nothing about building up a dirt cove.

    So....I am going with just the foam cove, and then trying to decide what to put down over my hard pack screenings. I thought maybe a carpet pad. I can get free padding from a friend who works at a carpet install place. I looked at the gorilla pad at a local pool store and that stuff ain't anything more than a heavy weed barrier cloth. I found an interesting product at my local DIY store today too...a product also called "Gorilla Pad/liner" that is used in roofing. Looked almost identical to the pool gorilla pad, but was a FRACTION of the cost....Hmmmm.....Interesting

    Dan
    33' x 52" Swim and Play Inc. PARAGON AGP. Hayward H200 Heater. Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump. Sta-Rite Cristal Flo T-210WF Sand Filter. Stenner 45M5 chlorine pump

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    pool4me's Avatar
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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    I used Armor Shield / Gorilla Pad and I LOVE it. Little expensive though but not too bad. I too used about 6" of packed screenings and just about 1" of mason sand over top to make sure everything was level (Then the Gorilla pad).

    You could always use a thin layer of sand over the screenings. Watch out for carpet pad and other items than can get moldy when they get damp.

    Sounds like you're moving alng nicely.
    33'x15' x 52" Aqualeader
    Gallons ? - (I use appx 13,500 to calculate "stuff")
    33 x 15 x 4.3 x 5.9 = 12,558. or . . The Pool Calculator = 14,400
    Hayward S-166T 100Lb Sand Filter - Hayward Power-Flo LX 1HP Pump
    Intex S.W.G.

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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    Yeah..it seems my new pool is always one step forward and 2 back!! We got all the walls up and vertials and foam cove done as of yesterday..then this morning we get home from church and we have some T-storms going through the area and it seams the wind blew one side of the pool wall down into the inside of the pool. AAAAHHHHHH!! It wasn't so bad, other than lifting it back up and inserting the wall back into the track...but still JUST ANOTHER hassle! I just ordered my new pool liner yesterday...so it's going to be a few days before that goes in and then the water comes...I am hoping and praying we get no more wind or rain until the liner goes in and pool starts filling. I did take about 16 2x4's and propped them up inside the pool against the wall, so I think that'll hold them from collapsing again, should we get more wind.

    And speaking of collapsing...seeing that it is relatively easy for the pool wall to fall over to the INSIDE of the pool, when you are installing the liner on the wall, won't it have a tendency to pull the pool wall over into the pool??? That just ran through my mind when I was setting the portion of the wall back up.

    Dan
    33' x 52" Swim and Play Inc. PARAGON AGP. Hayward H200 Heater. Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump. Sta-Rite Cristal Flo T-210WF Sand Filter. Stenner 45M5 chlorine pump

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    pool4me's Avatar
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    Re: Silly Foam cove question.

    I hear you,

    That wind can be a real pain. Usually when you install the pool wall (Hopefully just before you are going to install the liner (or not expecting wind), many installers "stake" around the outside of the pool and attach the pool wall to the stakes.

    In my case, I picked up about 30 of those large spring clamps from Harbor Freight and clamped the wall at each upright on the sides (I have an oval pool) and then to a few stakes in the end portions.

    You are correct, without bracing, you can run the risk of pulling the walls in when you fill the water.

    You'd be amazed though, how "firm" and rigid the walls get once all of the pool braces, coping etc are installed. They are pretty fragile though until you get them to this point.
    33'x15' x 52" Aqualeader
    Gallons ? - (I use appx 13,500 to calculate "stuff")
    33 x 15 x 4.3 x 5.9 = 12,558. or . . The Pool Calculator = 14,400
    Hayward S-166T 100Lb Sand Filter - Hayward Power-Flo LX 1HP Pump
    Intex S.W.G.

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