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Thread: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

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    Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    We have started the TFP method and unfortunately we are SLAMing for the second time in 1 month. We had the pool nice and balanced but after a 20 kid party and a day or two dropping below the min FC, we were losing about 3 FC in the OCLT.

    Between the trips to Walmart buying gallons of bleach and reordering the R-0871, this method is going to cost a fortune. We need some insight into the overall costs of this method.

    Our 16,500g chlorine pool gets direct sun from 10am - 6pm. Our CYA is around 60. We try to keep the FC around 10-12, but somedays it drops to 6-7 by 5pm.

    When is the best time to test? How many times do you test a week for FC?

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    DoubleD, I'm going to assume for this discussion that your pool is a non-SWG pool since your signature is not updated with pool info. My pool is slightly larger than yours and I spend a whopping $1.48 per day in regular HEB Bravo bleach. I routinely expect about a 2 ppm loss of FC in a 24 hour period, and a half gallon of that bleach gives me about 2.5 FC. My CYA is currently 50, and I increase it to 60-70 in Jun - Sep because my pool is in full sun year-round.

    You mentioned trying to keep your FC at 10-12, but that's too high for your CYA. The excess FC (not bound to existing stabilizer) has no place to go and will be taken by the sun quicker. That's why the Chlorine/CYA Chart (link below) is so critical. We expect a faster FC loss during a SLAM because of algae and the sun exposure, but once the SLAM is over, you should lose no more than about 4 ppm in a 24 hour period. Of course a larger FC loss is expected with heavy bather loads and unique scenarios).

    I test my FC and pH every day (late afternoon/early evening for me), but you can test at any time. I would recommend being consistent with your testing time and location of water sampling from the pool. But if your pool is 100% algae-free, and you have a current CYA of 60, your daily FC target should be around 7-9, never below 5. For example, if you increase FC to 8 this evening, ideally you hope to find it at about 5-6 the same time tomorrow evening. If it crashes lower, then you have an algae issue that warrants a SLAM. Hope that helps.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Yep-----------all your "extra" FC you're trying to maintain for your CYA level is a waste.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
    Pool Rover Jr., Pool Blaster Max, Diver Dave TF100 Test Kit/Speed Stir
    Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker, Liqour Chiller, & Drink Mixer & Party Tub----Collect 'um all!

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    Paul & Crystal's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Great questions. I am wondering how much mine is going to end up costing as well. I only got my pool last month. It is quite large. My CYA is around 40-50 so I keep my FC between 5-7. I am adding about 3 jugs of pool essentials chlorinating liquid 10% from Walmart per week for now. But it's not hot yet and we are not swimming yet. So I'm spending about $12 per week on bleach. But most people I know are putting shock in their pool every week plus whatever pucks they are using and algeacide and who knows what other pool store recommendations. My pool gets a lot of sun too so I know I will start to use more bleach as the summer rolls on but I still think it will cost less than shock and etc. I am testing daily for now as I get to know my pool but I could see next year going to every other day since I will have a season of experience under my belt. I just do not want to take any chance of going green with this thing.

    I'm a noob but from what I've been reading here, it would be unusual to have to slam twice in a month. I'm sure one of the experts can help with doing a proper slam and get you where you need to be. But you will need to make a pool sig so they can help you.

    Depending on what kind of pool you have, you might be able to run lower CYA which would require less bleach. Just a thought.

    Also, there is a thread called 2017 bleach prices. People post about good deals they find on bleach. It's important that your bleach is fresh too. If it's old then it won't act right in your water and you will have to use more. There is a date on every bottle of bleach. What kind are you using?

    Best of luck!

    Crystal
    60K 53 X 23 X 3'-10' IG Grecian Concrete aka "The Beast"
    TF100 XL with Speed Stir
    Dolphin M500 aka "The Beast Master"
    Sta Rite Max E Pro 2 HP - Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter S310T.
    My Pool Thread: Old School Pool

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Depending on what kind of pool you have, you might be able to run lower CYA which would require less bleach. Just a thought.
    60 CYA is just about right for South Texas with no SWG.

    Mine will be 50 to 60 3 hours or so North of there. Taking it to 50 as we speak. 60 here in July/August.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
    Pool Rover Jr., Pool Blaster Max, Diver Dave TF100 Test Kit/Speed Stir
    Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker, Liqour Chiller, & Drink Mixer & Party Tub----Collect 'um all!

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    Paul & Crystal's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    I may have to raise mine for July/August here in OKC too. It gets pretty hot!
    60K 53 X 23 X 3'-10' IG Grecian Concrete aka "The Beast"
    TF100 XL with Speed Stir
    Dolphin M500 aka "The Beast Master"
    Sta Rite Max E Pro 2 HP - Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter S310T.
    My Pool Thread: Old School Pool

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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    TFP is NOT about being the cheapest......although it usually turns out to be.

    The methods we teach here allow you to understand what your pool is doing, why it's doing it and what to do about it.

    TFP doesn't make a nickel one way or the other if you spend more or less on your pool. Our goal is simply to open your eyes to the hoodoo of buying countless chemicals and guessing that your prayers will be answered.......they won't.

    Keep reading. You will read hundreds of testimonials from people who decided to take the time to learn about their pool and how to manage it. In the end, TFPC most always is the least expensive method available. For sure, it is the most rewarding as you look everyday at that diamond-shiny pool.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Paul & Crystal's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    So true duraleigh! I take great pride in my sparktacular water knowing that I am doing it on my own and I know why it looks that way. I take several walks a day around the pool just to admire the water!
    60K 53 X 23 X 3'-10' IG Grecian Concrete aka "The Beast"
    TF100 XL with Speed Stir
    Dolphin M500 aka "The Beast Master"
    Sta Rite Max E Pro 2 HP - Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter S310T.
    My Pool Thread: Old School Pool

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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    +1 to duraleigh!
    17,250 gallon plaster pool & spa, IC40 SWCG, Cartridge Filter, CYA 70-80, Boric 50 ppm, Temp~84F, Naples, FL.

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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    +1 to what naplespool said
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    I guess I am confused a little about the target FC levels for maintaining and shock. If my CYA is 60 (which the test is pretty imprecise), the shock FC is 24. If i get my FC to that level and leave for work, when i come back the FC is way below that. How does that affect the SLAM? Likewise, if the target FC is 7-9, when I get home from work the FC will be much lower. Is it ok for the FC to drop lower than the min for a short period?

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    During slam the 24 is the goal you want to stay at. The more frequently you test and bump it to stay there the easier the slam will go. During normal use, ideally you would stay at target. However, if you drop a little under for short durations you should be fine. Just don't drop below min level, and don't stay below target long. If you add to reach top of target rang you should stay within rang for a day other than extreme sun or use
    24ft x 52in AGP 18000 gal
    sand filter, 200#,1.5 hp single speed pump
    Wood deck (still in progress...)

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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Thanks for the input, i will follow these steps.

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    MarkTX's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Crystal,

    Your pool is twice as big as mine, and more or less in the same location geographically. I think you will REALLY REALLY want a SWCG by the end of the summer. I know I did after last summer ( I still don't have one ). I use the same liquid chlorine as you. I am thinking you will need a jug or two a day come the heat. Not a prob, just be ready
    30,000 gal free-form IG w/ spa, PebbleSheen Blue Surf, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair 3 HP Intelliflo, extra pump that is way over-sized for weeping moss rocks, Dolphin Oasis Z5, municipal water, all built Jan-Feb 2016. TF-100, SpeedStir, Liquidator 3/8", borates. My build thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-in-Cypress-TX

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    Paul & Crystal's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Mark...I'm preparing myself. I've got my jug lugging system all worked out! Luckily my pool house and pool are right by the garage. It's literally 15 steps to the pool house and another 15 to the pool. I've found I can park right outside the garden entrance of Walmart and be in and out of there with 10 jugs in 15 minutes. Wheel em straight to the car. Not a problem so far. SWG is definitely on my list but don't think it can happen this year. But I hear you. It's gonna take a lot of bleach to keep this thing tame.

    Crystal
    60K 53 X 23 X 3'-10' IG Grecian Concrete aka "The Beast"
    TF100 XL with Speed Stir
    Dolphin M500 aka "The Beast Master"
    Sta Rite Max E Pro 2 HP - Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter S310T.
    My Pool Thread: Old School Pool

  16. Back To Top    #16
    MarkTX's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    What I have learned is that we can be a slave to our crystal clear TFP pool, or a slave to our green pool. I prefer the former. Either way, we paid extra for the opportunity!
    30,000 gal free-form IG w/ spa, PebbleSheen Blue Surf, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair 3 HP Intelliflo, extra pump that is way over-sized for weeping moss rocks, Dolphin Oasis Z5, municipal water, all built Jan-Feb 2016. TF-100, SpeedStir, Liquidator 3/8", borates. My build thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-in-Cypress-TX

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Paul & Crystal - I just realized your sig .... 60K? Holy smokes! That's a lake (Beast) alright. Nice.

    DD, like I said in post #2, our pools are almost the same size. I use 1/2 gallon of Bravo bleach each day. Easy stuff. You can too once you get the CYA and FC dialed-in to your liking. If you have questions later, just shout. We'll be here ... unless we're in our pool.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    Wow 60k! You will probably need 2 SWG for that.

    I have a SWG, but use bleach during the dead of winter - 2 months here in San Antonio. I bought that H-E-B Bravo this past winter. It is 10% and was a pretty good price.

    The 2nd best investment I made for the pool was a katchakid with a leaf net. The catch my kid part is no longer a necessity, it is however the support for the net. I put it over the pool this year mid October and took it off on April 1, so almost 6 months. Besides the obvious benefit of keeping all the fall leaves and oak leaves and pollen during the spring out of the pool, I have found several other advantages. The only thing I added to pool was 1 gallon of bleach. I cut my pump run time down to 3 hours - nothing to skim. FC loss is minimal. It get pretty warm in February this year and the FC got up to 10 - I probably check it every 2 weeks with cover on it. Turned the SWG off, and it took 15 days to get down to 4 FC. Water evaporation is minimal. The only drawback is my son wanted to go swimming the last few weekends in March, and I had to deny him. "The cover does not come off until all that pollen falls off those oaks and I get it racked up."

    Best investment without a doubt is the TF100 kit. Once you understand the tests, and use the knowledge from this website, maintaining a pool is simple.


    Free form 17X30. 14,500 Gal. Pentair sand filter and 1.5 hp pump. Aqua-Rite SWCG. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speed Stir

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Paul & Crystal's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    I know I know...we did not realize how big the pool really was...we were pretty clueless about pools in general and we were totally clueless as to what that size does to your maintenance needs and costs. We just loved the size for family parties. We like to do volleyball and basketball etc. so it will be great for that.

    I'm coming to understand that a SWG setup will involve two units...I don't know if I'm ever going to want to spend that much on those. We will see how tired I get with jug lugging. Luckily I have a really sweet set up here that makes it pretty easy. See my pool thread for pics!

    I am really thinking about upgrading my pump and filter and giving my equipment pad a makeover first...but again we shall see how much bleach I have to buy this summer. If it gets to the point where it would make a payment on a SWG system I will start considering that option in earnest!

    Crystal
    60K 53 X 23 X 3'-10' IG Grecian Concrete aka "The Beast"
    TF100 XL with Speed Stir
    Dolphin M500 aka "The Beast Master"
    Sta Rite Max E Pro 2 HP - Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter S310T.
    My Pool Thread: Old School Pool

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Daily FC Loss - Is this really cheaper?

    If you're gonna replumb that pad for updated equipment----I'd leave some extra pipe space for a SWG down the road..................
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
    Pool Rover Jr., Pool Blaster Max, Diver Dave TF100 Test Kit/Speed Stir
    Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker, Liqour Chiller, & Drink Mixer & Party Tub----Collect 'um all!

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