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Thread: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

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    Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    My new pool was completed at beginning of March and I noticed right away that at the closest return jet there are always bubbles coming out when the pump is running. My PB did a pressure check and was perplexed about it and had me turn the Hayward variable speed pump up 400 RPM which helped a bit but bubbles still were coming out just more spaced out. Eventually I noticed it was the Aquarite SWG that was producing the bubbles as they would disappear when it was turned off. From what I've found there is really nothing you can do to prevent this as it's normal for the SWG to produce hydrogen and chlorine gasses during operation. The problem is most likely that this return jet is too close to the SWG. My question is does this bubbling aerate the water and thus increase the pH the same as air bubbles from an air leak would do? It seems my pH is constantly high and I'm having to add acid every few days to bring it down. Thanks!
    8500 Gallon IG, Hayward Max-Flo VS 1.65hp Pump, Hayward Swimcare C150S Filter, Hayward Aquarite SWG w/ T-9 Cell, 6 Panel Solar Heater, Rico Rocks waterfall

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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Chlorine gas being produce by your SWCG (salt water chlorine generator).
    Xavier in Baytown, Texas
    Pool Built: 06May2016. 16ftx34ft, Area: 485 ft2, Depth: 4ft-6ft, Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump, Pentair FNS Plus D.E. Filter 48 sq. ft., Easy Touch 8 with wireless remote, IntelliBrite Pool Color LED, 640 Sq Ft of deck, 3 ton waterfall, Guesstimation: 17,000 gallons, Test Kit: Taylor K-2006C.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Most of the gas that reaches the returns should be hydrogen gas because it does not dissolve in water. Most if not all the chlorine gas should be dissolved into the water by the time it reaches the returns.


    My question is does this bubbling aerate the water and thus increase the pH the same as air bubbles from an air leak would do? It seems my pH is constantly high and I'm having to add acid every few days to bring it down. Thanks!
    Yes it does. This is normal behavior for those of us with SWGs.

    What might help is lower TA to a point where PH stabilizes. However, if you have high TA fill water that you rely upon, this may not help much since TA will eventually rise again.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Phantom,

    Welcome to TFP... A Great resource for all your pool and SWCG questions...

    While it is true SWCG's will cause the pH to increase, I suspect there are a couple of other reason's you are having to add acid so often.

    1. Your pool is new. Assuming it is a plaster pool, new plaster will initially cause a pH increase for the first 6 months to a year.
    2. I suspect that you are trying to keep your pH at 7.2, when most SWCG pools like to run at about 7.8. At 7.8 I can often go several weeks without adding acid, at 7.2 I can go about 30 seconds..
    3. Water features.. If you have any water features or a spa spillover, this will also cause your pH to increase due to aeration.

    You did say something that worries me.. You said your PB had you increase your pump speed to "400"... Most SWCG's will not turn on the flow switch below about 500 or 600 RPM, so that makes me think that your flow switch is not working or not wired correctly. This is a little dangerous as the whole purpose of the flow switch is to make sure that you have enough flow so that the chlorine gas does not build up and explode... Unlikely, but safety issue anyway.

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Yes it does. This is normal behavior for those of us with SWGs.

    What might help is lower TA to a point where PH stabilizes. However, if you have high TA fill water that you rely upon, this may not help much since TA will eventually rise again.
    Thanks I figured it would be part of the reason pH is rising. My TA is a bit on the high side at around 140 currently so I could try bringing it down some. I haven't tested TA on my source water so I'll check that out as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Phantom,

    Welcome to TFP... A Great resource for all your pool and SWCG questions...

    While it is true SWCG's will cause the pH to increase, I suspect there are a couple of other reason's you are having to add acid so often.

    1. Your pool is new. Assuming it is a plaster pool, new plaster will initially cause a pH increase for the first 6 months to a year.
    2. I suspect that you are trying to keep your pH at 7.2, when most SWCG pools like to run at about 7.8. At 7.8 I can often go several weeks without adding acid, at 7.2 I can go about 30 seconds..
    3. Water features.. If you have any water features or a spa spillover, this will also cause your pH to increase due to aeration.

    You did say something that worries me.. You said your PB had you increase your pump speed to "400"... Most SWCG's will not turn on the flow switch below about 500 or 600 RPM, so that makes me think that your flow switch is not working or not wired correctly. This is a little dangerous as the whole purpose of the flow switch is to make sure that you have enough flow so that the chlorine gas does not build up and explode... Unlikely, but safety issue anyway.

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Thanks for the welcome! My PB did mention that the plaster walls would cause the pH to increase for a while until they are completely cured. I was actually aiming for pH to be between 7.4 and 7.6 but it's always 7.8 to 8.0 when I test every few days. You think it's safe to just leave at 7.8 then? I do have a water feature as well which I'm sure is adding to the issue. My PB had me increase the pump speed up by 400 RPM, to 2600, not set it at 400RPM
    8500 Gallon IG, Hayward Max-Flo VS 1.65hp Pump, Hayward Swimcare C150S Filter, Hayward Aquarite SWG w/ T-9 Cell, 6 Panel Solar Heater, Rico Rocks waterfall

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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Phantom,

    Well that makes me feel better...

    I normally run mine at 1,200 RPM when generating chlorine.

    Yes, leaving pH at 7.8 is just fine, the longer it stays there the better. I only add acid when it gets above 7.8....

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Phantom,

    Well that makes me feel better...

    I normally run mine at 1,200 RPM when generating chlorine.

    Yes, leaving pH at 7.8 is just fine, the longer it stays there the better. I only add acid when it gets above 7.8....

    Jim R.
    Thanks I will keep pH at 7.8 from now on then.

    Wow if I set my pump that low I would have huge hydrogen bubbles coming out of the jets. I tried 1500 and it was pretty bad, less frequent but very large bubbles every once in a while. I imagine if I had a flame going there it would make a nice little bang haha
    8500 Gallon IG, Hayward Max-Flo VS 1.65hp Pump, Hayward Swimcare C150S Filter, Hayward Aquarite SWG w/ T-9 Cell, 6 Panel Solar Heater, Rico Rocks waterfall

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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    pH has a tendency to rise naturally, so you shouldn't attribute quick pH rise specifically to the bubbles produced by the SWG. If you have a plaster pool, the plaster will also be a heavy contributor. Especially if the plaster is fairly new.

    With your TA at 140, you certainly should expect pH to rise fairly quickly just because of that. Im sure you can slow it down considerably by working on your TA though.

    Some of us are lucky and found the sweet spot with our TA and other chemistry and dont have very much pH rise at all, even with the bubbles produced by the SWG.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    pH has a tendency to rise naturally, so you shouldn't attribute quick pH rise specifically to the bubbles produced by the SWG. If you have a plaster pool, the plaster will also be a heavy contributor. Especially if the plaster is fairly new.

    With your TA at 140, you certainly should expect pH to rise fairly quickly just because of that. Im sure you can slow it down considerably by working on your TA though.

    Some of us are lucky and found the sweet spot with our TA and other chemistry and dont have very much pH rise at all, even with the bubbles produced by the SWG.
    Thanks, whats a good target TA? 80-100? Best way to lower it is with Muriatic acid right?
    8500 Gallon IG, Hayward Max-Flo VS 1.65hp Pump, Hayward Swimcare C150S Filter, Hayward Aquarite SWG w/ T-9 Cell, 6 Panel Solar Heater, Rico Rocks waterfall

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Phantom,

    The best TA number is where your pH is happy. So I would concentrate on pH and let the TA come down on its own.

    If your really want to reduce TA you need to follow this process... https://www.troublefreepool.com/cont...tal-alkalinity

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    TFP official recommendation for TA in a saltwater pool is 60 to 80. Most folks do best at the lower end of this recommendation. Pool School - Recommended Levels
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    Re: Question about bubbles being produced by my SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    TFP official recommendation for TA in a saltwater pool is 60 to 80. Most folks do best at the lower end of this recommendation. Pool School - Recommended Levels
    Thanks, I will shoot for 60 TA
    8500 Gallon IG, Hayward Max-Flo VS 1.65hp Pump, Hayward Swimcare C150S Filter, Hayward Aquarite SWG w/ T-9 Cell, 6 Panel Solar Heater, Rico Rocks waterfall

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