When our pool was built I requested a 1.5" pressure side cleaner line, because we had a lot of leaves from the neighbor's trees. Happily, shortly after the pool was completed, our neighbor cut down the trees, and I didn't need a cleaner! A bit of manual vacuuming was all I needed to keep the dust at bay. Well after 4 years of pool ownership the novelty of vacuuming has wore off, and I'm considering an automatic cleaner. Given my problem is just a bit of dust and I have a majorly over-sized cartridge filter, a suction cleaner seems like the best fit. Unfortunately this would require maybe a day's effort to re-plumbing the pad for suction on the 1.5" line. Does this seem like a reasonable choice? And while I'm at it, I could easily plumb it so I can select pressure or suction on the 1.5" line. Is there any value in that?
Considering re-plumbing for a suction cleaner
- Thread starter BW
- Start date
I just went the other direction - switched from Suction side to Pressure side, because the suction line (underground) now appears to be clogged with something.
At least with a Pressure side system there is no risk of anything getting sucked into the line and clogging where you can't get to it.
If you can afford it, I think the Robotic cleaners are the best choice.
At least with a Pressure side system there is no risk of anything getting sucked into the line and clogging where you can't get to it.
If you can afford it, I think the Robotic cleaners are the best choice.
Thanks for the feedback. I suspected I would get suggestions for a robot, and I'm sure they are valid, but as an engineer at a robotics company I'm inclined to to minimize reminders of work while relaxing at the pool.
Most likely I will re-plumb so I can select pressure or suction with three-way valves. I think I might enjoy manual vacuuming if I didn't have to mess a skimmer plate each time. If not, I'll buy the cleaner. I'll post before and after pics of the plumbing here, if I go that route.
Jim, I'm not sure what I'm looking at in your photo. Care to elaborate?
Most likely I will re-plumb so I can select pressure or suction with three-way valves. I think I might enjoy manual vacuuming if I didn't have to mess a skimmer plate each time. If not, I'll buy the cleaner. I'll post before and after pics of the plumbing here, if I go that route.
Jim, I'm not sure what I'm looking at in your photo. Care to elaborate?
- May 23, 2015
- 24,381
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I'm ditching my suction cleaner after 4 seasons and going with a robot. Honestly, the term robot is a bit stretched here. They are simply electrical motor driven pressure cleaners with a little bit of on-board controls to make them move in a specific pattern around a pool....this thing isn't going to make you a margarita and do a dance while you sit back in your lounger ...
Also, the nice part of the robot cleaners is this - they decouple the cleaning process from your pool pump. You are going to use a lot more energy running either a pressure cleaner or a suction cleaner than you will running a robot cleaner around a pool. Robots typically consume about 250W-300W of electrical power. A suction cleaner will require you to run your pump in order to clean and, even with a variable speed pump, the suction cleaners usually require the pumps to run at much higher speeds to get them to move around the pool. Pool pumps are not known as energy-savers....
Also, the nice part of the robot cleaners is this - they decouple the cleaning process from your pool pump. You are going to use a lot more energy running either a pressure cleaner or a suction cleaner than you will running a robot cleaner around a pool. Robots typically consume about 250W-300W of electrical power. A suction cleaner will require you to run your pump in order to clean and, even with a variable speed pump, the suction cleaners usually require the pumps to run at much higher speeds to get them to move around the pool. Pool pumps are not known as energy-savers....
BW,
Basically, I did not like the option that I could only attach a vacuum hose in the skimmer (older pool), so I just added a three way valve, in front of the pump, that lets me chose between the skimmer input (coming out of the ground) or the open port where I can attach a vacuum hose.
If you click on the pic it will get bigger.
I can't think of how you could have one valve that would select between a pressure cleaner or a suction cleaner???
Thanks,
Jim R.
- Nov 30, 2008
- 338
I can run my suction side Zodiac T5 and an inline leaf trap for 187 watts using my Jandy EPump.
This is pretty efficient to vac and filter the pool, but my pool setup is really slick - no 90's at all in the plumbing and my filter flows quiet well.
I don't think most guys setups are as slick as mine hydrodynamically.
Uncle Dave
- May 23, 2015
- 24,381
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Yep, I'm sure if I played with the valves and switched the pump suction all the way to the suction cleaner I could probably lower my VSP speed quite a bit. But the truth of the matter is, when most folks run a suction cleaner, they're not inclined to put it in the pool and take it out or adjust valves manually to make it efficient. The simplest/laziest approach is to leave it in the pool and split the pump suction between the various inputs (skimmer, MD's and suction wall port) and then just increase the VSP speed until everything runs right. So that means running the pump at a higher speed to get everything to work together.
With a robot, you take it in and out of the pool (and even that is not totally necessary) and you don't worry if the pump is running or not. That's a much easier and cost effective solution for me and my pool. My minimum operating point for the VSP speed to keep the SWG happy and running is down near 1400rpm which equates to about 170W of electrical power to the VSP. Everyone has a different operating point in their pool, so your mileage may vary with each cleaner type. I'm glad you were able to find an efficient operating point for your suction cleaner.
- Nov 30, 2008
- 338
Yea I see lots of guys leave cleaners in all the time and with a suction side environment (without a remote skimmer) then you dont skim the top which a pressure cleaner and robot dont suffer that problem. I dont do this myself I put it in and take it out after half a day or so.
In my area I have a high influx of very fine contaminate dark fallout powder from 2 of the largest freeway interchanges in LA.
All of the devices that use a mesh bag to capture debris simply let this go right through whereas the suction side cleaner actually removes the debris from the pool itself and it does stay in my filter.
If I had large acorns or a leaves Id probably go for a robot , or pressure side myself.
UD
I spent some time looking at robot cleaners today, but just can't justify the expense for my small pool. So I'm going to try the suction route.
I couldn't get a good photo of the plumbing, so here's a drawing of what I have in mind. Any problems with this? Obviously there are some valve combinations that don't makes sense, so I'd have adjust them with care.
I couldn't get a good photo of the plumbing, so here's a drawing of what I have in mind. Any problems with this? Obviously there are some valve combinations that don't makes sense, so I'd have adjust them with care.
- Nov 30, 2008
- 338
Looks ok to me.
todays current scenario is a pressure cleaner that didnt use a second dedicated pump.
Proposed turns a dedicated pressure line to either be pressure or suction , and allows you to valve between the skimmer and bottom cleaner using a suction side cleaner eliminating the biggest drawback to a suction side cleaner which is reduced or no skimming.
Pretty cool.
UD
todays current scenario is a pressure cleaner that didnt use a second dedicated pump.
Proposed turns a dedicated pressure line to either be pressure or suction , and allows you to valve between the skimmer and bottom cleaner using a suction side cleaner eliminating the biggest drawback to a suction side cleaner which is reduced or no skimming.
Pretty cool.
UD
- May 23, 2015
- 24,381
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I'm not sure how well that's going to work. Hopefully some hydraulic experts can get on here.
In the case where you are putting pressure on the line, you will have the window of the three way diverter valve trying to hold back the pressure from the return side while simultaneously being pulled by the suction vacuum of the pump. I'm not sure the valves are designed to withstand those kinds of forces and you could get water from the return side "sneaking" back into the suction side of the pump. Rather than using 3-way diverter valves which employ a sliding widow to make a seal, you might want to use two shut-off valves instead that provide a more complete seal.
As I said, I don't have expertise in this area but I don't think the standard Jandy valves will work in that configuration. Also, putting a valve on the pump input like that, you need to be really careful about how the valve rotates so that no one can ever dead-head the pump while it is running.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,833
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
It looks like the cleaner line would always be pegged to 0 PSI because it is open to the pool? So the differential pressure is no worse that it would be without that line.
But even if the cleaner line was sealed, I don't think it would be an issue because even the differential pressure between suction and return isn't all that large and much less than the 50 PSI max rated pressure.
But even if the cleaner line was sealed, I don't think it would be an issue because even the differential pressure between suction and return isn't all that large and much less than the 50 PSI max rated pressure.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,381
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks Mark! Whenever I see the suction and return sides short-circuited, I get worried.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have a suction cleaner (MX8 with Pentair 3hp VSP). One benefit I like about suction cleaners is you can leave in the pool and have it come on daily. But here's the challenge; it requires me to set my valves to allow most flow thru the suction line which is 1.5", and less flow thru my main drain 2.5" and skimmer line, also 2.5". It also requires a higher RPM from the pump. Pulling water thru the 1.5" line is not very efficient compared to pulling thru the two 2.5" lines, and the higher pump RPM consumes more power. And I don't want to go out daily and manually adjust the valves. My next option is to install a Jandy auto valve. This would allow me to run most water thru the suction line for 3 hrs, then readjust to close off the suction line and pull water thru main drains and skimmer. I can then run my pump for high RPM's fr the time the cleaner is running and then go lower RPM's for the remaining clean time pulling water thru MD and skimmer.....
Anyone have experience with jandy auto valves?
Anyone have experience with jandy auto valves?
- May 23, 2015
- 24,381
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I have a similar setup as yours and I just ditched my suction cleaner for a robot. The energy savings are huge - in order to run everything in my pool, my VSP routinely had to run at speeds higher than 2000RPM, typically from 2250 to 2500 RPM. That meant more than 1kW of power usage. Now, without the suction cleaner, I run down at 1600RPM and I'm only using about 300W of power. The robot has only needed to be run a few times in the last two weeks and, when it runs, it only uses 250W on a 2 hour cycle so 500kWh. The cost savings are REAL.
Honestly, I would not think of even replumbing the suction line but I understand it if you've chosen to go that route. The Jandy three way valves are very easy to setup and use as long as you have a good automation system to pair them with. What automation system do you use?
My spa spillover was originally just on a manual valve and I would leave it so the spillover was always on. About 16 months ago I added an automated valve controller to it and it was very east to adjust the cams to get the positions I needed (spillover fully closed OR 75% spillway/25% pool returns). Automating your suction line should be just as easy.
I have a critical question for you; I also switched to an electric robot. Can I just leave the pressure vacuum suction line plugged at all times if I don't intend to use it? Or do I need to keep it open (unplugged) on the side of the pool? Don't see anything to stop the water from flowing towards the vacuum line but I'm afraid of the pressure building up in the pipe (?).
- May 23, 2015
- 24,381
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Is it a suction line or a pressure line? Which type of cleaner did you have - suction or pressure?
- May 23, 2015
- 24,381
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Did it use a booster pump? Where does the pressure line get water from - before or after the filter?
A picture of your equipment pad would help.
A picture of your equipment pad would help.